American hostages rescued in Colombia.

[da loser]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Have you ever been there? I would rather go to Colombia than the ghettos of DC, New York, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, etc. etc. You people act as if the FARC is there waiting to take you off into the jungle as soon as you arrive in country.

You people are proving my point, though. Despite the progress that it has made, the reputation of Colombia remains in the eyes of the uninformed.

so on one hand colombia is no worse than america, but then you compare colombia to the ghettos of america.

:beer:

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Have you ever been there? I would rather go to Colombia than the ghettos of DC, New York, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, etc. etc. You people act as if the FARC is there waiting to take you off into the jungle as soon as you arrive in country.

You people are proving my point, though. Despite the progress that it has made, the reputation of Colombia remains in the eyes of the uninformed.

so on one hand colombia is no worse than america, but then you compare colombia to the ghettos of america.

:beer:

His point was that there are shitty areas in the US just as there are in Colombia. Bogotá is a great vibrant city. Visit, then comment.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Have you ever been there? I would rather go to Colombia than the ghettos of DC, New York, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, etc. etc. You people act as if the FARC is there waiting to take you off into the jungle as soon as you arrive in country.

You people are proving my point, though. Despite the progress that it has made, the reputation of Colombia remains in the eyes of the uninformed.

so on one hand colombia is no worse than america, but then you compare colombia to the ghettos of america.

:beer:

No, learn to read. If I said "I would rather go to Disneyworld than the ghettos of America," am I also "comparing Disneyworld to the ghettos of America"?

 

[Mill]

Triumph, I must say you are overrating the security and development of Colombia by a bit. Much safer than years past, but still as a whole the price of life is less than in the US, and accordingly danger and violence are still large threats. Colombia has a lot of work left to complete, but the transformation in the last 8 years has been telling.

Without a doubt, the cities are much safer than earlier, and travel is possible. Still, I'd hestitate to send a non-Spanish speaker to Southern Bogota without a native. Same goes for the hills above Medellin, or many parts of Cali. Plus, there are still whole areas of the country that are off limit. The situation has improved more than 100% in most parts, but I would stop well short of saying that the problems there are similar to what modern America faces. It is still a developing nation with a large gap between the rich and the poor, and infrastructure outside of the cities is certainly consistent with Colombia being a developing nation. I'd still rather live in Bogota than Buenos Aires, however. For now, though, I have to tough it out down here.

Colombia has had eras of peace and prosperity before. The hope is that this time it will be permanent.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Colombia is definitely not a shithole, and and there is NOT a large problem with kidnapping foreigners (at least these days) Crime is not low, but I would not say rampant is a fair assessment at all.

People need to realize that an assessment of a country from a decade again is not accurate, nor was the stereotype back then even true.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
I hope some of the video of the hostage rescue is released!

It didn't sound like much of a video - they had someone trick the FARC into thinking thehostages were going one place, but the helicoptor took them to safety.

One interesting thing, I remember what a national scandal it was, hugely hurting Carter in the 1980 election, for 52 hostages to be held a year, with newspapers and newscasts keeping a daily counter, but these three hostages were taken under Bush and held for six years with very little press, and no known US rescue missions, and rescued finally not by the US but by Colombia, without a whiff of criticism for Bush. Liberal media, eh?

Because Bush is actually doing something. Employing US contractors to fight shadow wars throughout South America. Sending tons of military aid, fighter jets, etc. to the Colombian government. Carter was sitting on his hands.

Ya, Bush is actually doing something - like trying to overthrow democracy in Venezuela.

I know one person who is former special forces who was in Central America (wounded). He didn't like to talk about it much, but despite he and his family now buying properties down there, he told me there are places he'll never go back to, such as Honduras, because 'he knows how much reason they have to want revenge on Americans'.

Your 'shadow ops' - Reagan and Elliot Abrams sponsoring death squads, funding the contra terrorists in Nicaragua, spending millions to interefere in those nations' elections.

Carter hardly 'sat on his hands' - I don't know what all he did, but there were limited options, yet he tried a rescue mission so dangerous the military failed.

Of course , you are too partisan to deal with the simple facts of the media bias - no, for you, the editors sit there saying 'we'd nail Bush for this, but we see his great efforts'.

You're deluded, but it's not as if telling you that will help you recognize it.

FWIW, I don't think it's so much a party-based media bias, though that's the result, so much as an institutional bias, that one story was easier to 'sell'.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Great story. Let's hope we see continued success against these leftist rebels.

With more success by Columbia/US like this FARC can take over more of Columbia.

"The 15 hostages released on Wednesday by the Colombian army 'were in reality ransomed for a high price, and the whole operation afterwards was a set-up,' the radio's French-language channel said.

Saying the United States, which had three of its citizens among those freed, was behind the deal, it put the price of the ransom at some $20 million."

It is great the hostages are home. But, is the final cost going to be wotth $20 million investment in FARC?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Have you ever been there? I would rather go to Colombia than the ghettos of DC, New York, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, etc. etc. You people act as if the FARC is there waiting to take you off into the jungle as soon as you arrive in country.

You people are proving my point, though. Despite the progress that it has made, the reputation of Colombia remains in the eyes of the uninformed.

so on one hand colombia is no worse than america, but then you compare colombia to the ghettos of america.

:beer:

No, learn to read. If I said "I would rather go to Disneyworld than the ghettos of America," am I also "comparing Disneyworld to the ghettos of America"?

Yes.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Great story. Let's hope we see continued success against these leftist rebels.

With more success by Columbia/US like this FARC can take over more of Columbia.

"The 15 hostages released on Wednesday by the Colombian army 'were in reality ransomed for a high price, and the whole operation afterwards was a set-up,' the radio's French-language channel said.

Saying the United States, which had three of its citizens among those freed, was behind the deal, it put the price of the ransom at some $20 million."

It is great the hostages are home. But, is the final cost going to be wotth $20 million investment in FARC?

Wow. I may not have been suspicious enough about the official story. I first heard speculation about its truth on the Mike Malloy radio show, now this first evidence is out.

If true, this would help cement the modern Republican history for its utterly shameless behavior, from Reagans' wrongheaded 'no negotiating with terrorists' while he illegally sold missiles to Iran for money for other illegal terrorists, to Bush now 'no negoatiating with terrorists' while *paying them a ransom*.

It seems the Republicans are quite happy to play the John Wayne card with the tough talk AND want the PR wins of magically 'solving' issues by 'cheating'.

It reminds me of stories I've seen of the Nixon campaign in 1968, not wanting the democrats to have any peace in Vietnam in the elections, performing treason by telling the South Vietnam government to refuse to accept any peace deals the US and North Vietnam reached, and he'd reward them as president - and they did refuse the deals, shocking the US negotiators who couldn't figure out why. Anything to win, indeed.

It's getting ridiculous the extent to which any controversial story involves the US military lying. From the beginning of the Iraq War and Jessica Lynch, to the war's most famour hero Pat Tillman (as another poster mentioned), but also the military paying for pro-US slanted propaganda to be put into Iraqis newspapers from where it's reported in the US media as accurate, to things such as how they would never have revealed to the public the truth about Abu Ghraib, I have an issue with the use of dishonesty by the Pentagon.

They can win wars with arms, and by the use of the truth and being on the right side of issues, but they have no business using deceipt outside of the battlefield, IMO.

The problem may be that some now think that every political issue is a 'battle' justifying the use of deceipt to win. It's unacceptable, as is the lack of punishment for lies.

When the truth is the enemy, you need to re-think your own position.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Have you ever been there? I would rather go to Colombia than the ghettos of DC, New York, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, etc. etc. You people act as if the FARC is there waiting to take you off into the jungle as soon as you arrive in country.

You people are proving my point, though. Despite the progress that it has made, the reputation of Colombia remains in the eyes of the uninformed.

so on one hand colombia is no worse than america, but then you compare colombia to the ghettos of america.

:beer:

No, learn to read. If I said "I would rather go to Disneyworld than the ghettos of America," am I also "comparing Disneyworld to the ghettos of America"?

Yes.

IMO, Triumph is mostly right on this, but see below for a way he wasn't. He was seeming to try to point out their differences, not their simlarities.

The word compare has multiple meanings; in the sense it's used here, he's saying that he's not saying they are similar, he's saying they are different.

In the use as saying 'you're comparing Disneyworld to the ghettos', it's saying that it's being claimed they are similar, they have some things in common.

The posted who said he was 'comparing' US ghettos and Colombia was wrong IMO.

I guess one other source of confusion might be if the read thought he was saying Colombia was only a small step better than US ghettos, which is something Triumph invited by saying he'd rather be in Colombia than US ghettos, instead of saying he'd rather be in Colombia than in the *better* parts of the US. There is some implication there, by selecting the ghettos, that he's saying 'well, Colombia isn't as nice as most of the US, but it's better than the ghettos'.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Great story. Let's hope we see continued success against these leftist rebels.

With more success by Columbia/US like this FARC can take over more of Columbia.

"The 15 hostages released on Wednesday by the Colombian army 'were in reality ransomed for a high price, and the whole operation afterwards was a set-up,' the radio's French-language channel said.

Saying the United States, which had three of its citizens among those freed, was behind the deal, it put the price of the ransom at some $20 million."

It is great the hostages are home. But, is the final cost going to be wotth $20 million investment in FARC?

That story has already been discredited. Betancourt, Sarkozy, France, the US, Colombia's government and troops who participated as well as others have already said there is nothing to the report.

http://www.eltiempo.com/colomb...as-militares_4361595-1

http://www.monstersandcritics....nsom_payment__Roundup_

http://afp.google.com/article/...97SlVA2m-B0SfinVDaE1vg

Besides, let me expain something... I cannot find the article right now, but the US spent ove 250 MILLION just "looking" fo the hostages. If they were going to pay a ransom it would have been higher and happened a long time ago.

There's no truth to the Swiss Radio station's report. It is simply counterspin by those allied with the FARC -- or those who agree with their ideology.

If the FARC were paid then why was Alfonso Cano not on a satellite phone talking to the media before the hostages were released? Why did FARC not release a statement before?

Not a single other media outlet is confirming what a single radio station has said.

Check your sources, please!

 

[sandorski]

If a ransom was paid, the French or US Government would never admit to it.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: sandorski
If a ransom was paid, the French or US Government would never admit to it.

If you molested dogs you'd never admit to it.


Anyone can play that game...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: sandorski
If a ransom was paid, the French or US Government would never admit to it.

If you molested dogs you'd never admit to it.


Anyone can play that game...

Of course. Not saying there was, but they denying it is not really proof.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: sandorski
If a ransom was paid, the French or US Government would never admit to it.

If you molested dogs you'd never admit to it.


Anyone can play that game...

Of course. Not saying there was, but they denying it is not really proof.

And what proof does Swiss Radio have?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: sandorski
If a ransom was paid, the French or US Government would never admit to it.

If you molested dogs you'd never admit to it.

And you would?:shocked:

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: sandorski
If a ransom was paid, the French or US Government would never admit to it.

If you molested dogs you'd never admit to it.

And you would?:shocked:

Perhaps.

 

[Mill]

Live press conference on CNN.com

The hostages are speaking. They are really exposing the FARC for what they are.