American hostages rescued in Colombia.

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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With the death of 3 of the 7 man secretriat in the past couple of months, FARC is dying slowly but surely. Coupled that with the treasure-trove of info Colombia got after that raid, things are on the up and up for eliminating one of the more dangerous rebel groups in the world.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/...rt.colombia/index.html

Betancourt, U.S. contractors rescued from FARC

Former Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt has been rescued, the country's defense minister, Juan Manuel Santos, said Wednesday.

Betancourt, who is reportedly in severely deteriorating health, was kidnapped by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, known as FARC, in 2002.

Along with Betancourt, three Americans and 11 other hostages who were Colombian police were rescued from FARC. The rebel group is known to hold at least 750 hostages in the jungles of South America.

The freed include Americans Keith Stansell, Marc Gonsalves and Thomas Howes.

A senior U.S. State Department official told CNN that the families of the hostages had no idea that the rescue operation was taking place.

Stansell, Gonsalves and Howes have been held since February 13, 2003, when their single-engine plane crashed in mountains south of Bogota. The Americans were working for Northrop Grumman Corp. as part of a U.S.-funded counternarcotics effort.

Two other men on the plane, American pilot Tommy Janis and a Colombian, were shot to death by FARC. A rescue plane searching for the men crashed six weeks later, killing its American pilot, Butch Oliver, and another American crew member.

Santos said the rescue operation included a fact-finding effort to develop intelligence in the area followed by the final phase, in which helicopters were used.

The Colombian military had infiltrated the FARC leadership and arranged for the hostages to be taken to the south of the country, where they were to be picked up by a helicopter that the rebels believed was controlled by another group, Santos said.

A senior State Department official said the United States played no role in the operation, though it was briefed on it ahead of time. The official called the operation "brilliant" and "a huge success," saying it involved a deception operation against the FARC.

According to Pentagon officials, Colombians had told the United States about the operation in the past few days. The U.S. approved the plans but had no part in them.

The United States is offering medical support to the three American contractors, including a medical evacuation back to America.

William Bronfield, a senior U.S. ambassador who confirmed that the U.S. was briefed about the operation, is on his way to the Colombian airbase where the hostages were taken.

Stansell, Gonsalves and Howes were last seen in a 2003 interview by a Colombian journalist who made his way into a FARC stronghold. The journalist's video was shown on CBS' "60 Minutes."

"To our country, we miss you, and we hope we return one day. We're alive and well," said Stansell, then 38, a systems analyst.

"We expect to get out of here one day. We can't say for sure," said Howes, then 50, a professional pilot. "But our main concern is the welfare of our families."

"I'm a proud American," said Gonsalves, then 31, also a systems analyst. "I look to you guys, and I ask for a diplomatic solution to get us home safe, please."

The plight of Betancourt, who has French and Colombian citizenship, has attracted worldwide attention.

She was abducted February 23, 2002, after venturing into rebel territory while campaigning for the Colombian presidency. Videos later showed a slim Betancourt, sitting silently in a jungle setting.

News of her deteriorating health came after the FARC released six hostages this year. One of the freed hostages, Luis Eladio Perez, said that Betancourt had suffered from chronic liver problems since 2004.

He said he last saw her February 4 this year.

"Ingrid made a sign for me to go to the bathroom, and she did the same, and we were able to talk for about five minutes," Perez said. "I saw she was very ill and wasting away. She looked much worse than in that 'proof-of-life' video the rebels filmed in October."

Betancourt "seemed desperate," even though "she told me to stay calm and that the guerillas were giving her vitamins and calcium," he said.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy made a personal plea to Betancourt's captors in April.

"Ingrid's health has deteriorated so much that her life is in danger. Ingrid is in danger of imminent death," Sarkozy said. "You have the power to save a woman from death and revive hope for all the other hostages still held."

FARC has justified hostage-taking as a legitimate military tactic in a long-running and complex civil war that also has involved right-wing paramilitaries, government forces and drug traffickers.

Colombia, the United States and European Union consider the FARC a terrorist organization.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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I can't wait to see what people like Craig and other Chavez lovers have to say. Uribe didn't want the hostages to be rescued did he? They would never be rescued unless Chavez helped. Blah blah blah.

I am extremely happy today. Not only were the 3 Americans and Ingrid rescued, but so were 11 other police and military members that had been kidnapped. A nearly fatal blow has been struck to the face of the FARC. Let's hope that a peaceful resolution can be reached in the near future.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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The information taken from a lap top during a recent cross border raid is paying dividends. :thumbsup:
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Betancourt: Uribe is a fantastic President. His reelection has been key to Colombia's growth and stability.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
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Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
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Great story. Let's hope we see continued success against these leftist rebels.
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,271
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Originally posted by: Nebor
The information taken from a lap top during a recent cross border raid is paying dividends. :thumbsup:

is this confirmed? or are you just spreading lies?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
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Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

lol did you just compare Colombia to the US?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,630
2,014
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Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Great story. Let's hope we see continued success against these leftist rebels.

Clueless as always, I see.

What is incorrect about what he just said?
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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Very interesting rescue method. Will be something to read the full details if published.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
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Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

lol did you just compare Colombia to the US?

Have you visited Colombia?
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
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Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

Have you ever been there? I would rather go to Colombia than the ghettos of DC, New York, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, etc. etc. You people act as if the FARC is there waiting to take you off into the jungle as soon as you arrive in country.

You people are proving my point, though. Despite the progress that it has made, the reputation of Colombia remains in the eyes of the uninformed.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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I not only have no problem with the government of Colombia doing this, I'm glad for humanitarian reasons to see the hostages freed.

The questions aren't about the raid. One is, I've heard the president of Colombia has had union leaders murdered. If true, that's a problem.

Basically, another question involves when you get in a gray area between 'unjustified terrorism' in a healthy democracy on the one hand, and terrorism that's effectively self-defense on the other, such as people who resist Mugabe in Zimbabwe - situations where there are wrongs and injustices not addressable in the system.

That may justify *some* violence; the next question though is what is appropriate violence.

'Bombing a cafe' is an example of the civilian violence hard to justify. Hard or never? What if it's the families of occupiers who are slaughtering your families?

It's easy for some to turn a blind eye to the wrongs of one side and condemn only the other, but that doesn't do a lot to solve the problems in a society.

On condemning violence, I recall a few guys who thought violence was justified against government abuse of power - named Washington, Jefferson, Franklin.

The debate is impossible and pointless if someone is going to have a double standard on the violence - one side is 'justified killing' and the other side doing the same is terrorism. We don't have many honest debates, sadly, in this country on these issues. Instead, our position is basically 'sucks to be there, glad we're here where it's safe'.

For example, take El Salvador under Reagan and the criminal who ran the regional State Department, [L=Elliot Abrams.]http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zeroes/Elliot_Abrams.html[/L. .
. For the most part the public yawns at the words El Salvador, even the words 'death squads', but that's who ran the country in that period. The story of raped and murdered nuns, the assassination of the Catholic Archbishop who was not willing to be silent about the government's wrongs, got some press and a 'gee that's bad, sucks to be there glad we're here' response, but the connection of the US to the people who committed those crimes was not paid much attention to. The information was available to that 1% or 2% of Americans who bother to get more informed with more independant media and books, but it had little impact on US public opinion on anything.

To this day, if I posted a thread on the history there, I can predict a number of 'blame America first' responses, not any useful discussion.

And so it goes on, with there being useful discussion possible but unlikely about whether FARC should shut down (or be shut down), about the problems it's been wanting to address for decades. Have things improved much in Colombia? If not, and there are serious problems, how can they be addressed?

I think every advocate of democracy, of which I'm one, has a responsibility to critically look at the problems, the shortcomings, and what can be done.

I've quoted JFK before as saying 'If we cannot help the many who are poor, we cannot save the few who are rich' (paraphrase). There's something terribly wrong when many people have a 'who cares' position on the injustices in societies around the world. Even if FARC is a very wrong way to address them, a murderous criminal organization, it's little better to say things are fine to ignore if FARC is destroyed and leave other people killed without concern.

I'm not terribly familiar with FARC or the current conditions in Colombia (there was an interesting documentary on FARC, 'Girl Guerilla IIRC; it told the story of a middle class University girl who was a klutz as a guerrila, who joined when she heard she was on a death list at her University for having become a liberal protestor, so she fled), to say a lot about judging them. The fact they're on terrorist watch lists means something but not too much, when we reportedly just removed Nelson Mandela from the list.

For whatever reason, rebellions are usually seen as 'ugly'. People can cheer when a 'bad' rebellion is put down, or when a rebellion clearly wins and is seen as 'liberating' the society. What's awkward is the middle ground of ongoing violence, with all the rhetoric against 'terrorism'.

Today, we can look back at the French occupation of Algeria and more calmly analyze the wrongs of each side. At the time, I suspect it was pretty hard to do the same, with ongoing horrific acts of violence by both sides - the French used torture regularly, the rebels used 'terrorism'. Rebellions are ugly simply by necessity - for example, the harsh means needed to control for 'traitors' and infiltration, proven by the OP raid done by infiltration.

But the debate is rarely useful, sadly, filled mostly with condemnations of the other side, about as useful as the Hatfields listing the killings by McCoys.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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348
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Originally posted by: fallenangel99
I hope some of the video of the hostage rescue is released!

It didn't sound like much of a video - they had someone trick the FARC into thinking thehostages were going one place, but the helicoptor took them to safety.

One interesting thing, I remember what a national scandal it was, hugely hurting Carter in the 1980 election, for 52 hostages to be held a year, with newspapers and newscasts keeping a daily counter, but these three hostages were taken under Bush and held for six years with very little press, and no known US rescue missions, and rescued finally not by the US but by Colombia, without a whiff of criticism for Bush. Liberal media, eh?
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
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The story sounds a little too good to be true, more likely the FARC leadership were given some incentives for releasing the hostages.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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11
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Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
I hope some of the video of the hostage rescue is released!

It didn't sound like much of a video - they had someone trick the FARC into thinking thehostages were going one place, but the helicoptor took them to safety.

One interesting thing, I remember what a national scandal it was, hugely hurting Carter in the 1980 election, for 52 hostages to be held a year, with newspapers and newscasts keeping a daily counter, but these three hostages were taken under Bush and held for six years with very little press, and no known US rescue missions, and rescued finally not by the US but by Colombia, without a whiff of criticism for Bush. Liberal media, eh?

Because Bush is actually doing something. Employing US contractors to fight shadow wars throughout South America. Sending tons of military aid, fighter jets, etc. to the Colombian government. Carter was sitting on his hands.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
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Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: Triumph
The majority of Colombians are tired of the FARC and their resistance movement. It doesn't make sense to them anymore. Bogota is a modern city, no less developed than almost any major city in the US, and terrorist bombings/killings are few and far between. When I was there last November, we even drove out into the countryside, to places that 6 years ago my sister was not even allowed to visit. Colombia still has its problems, but I would say that they're no worse than what you find in modern day America.

Sorry but I wouldn't set foot in Colombia even if you paid me. It's a shit hole nation with a huge underclass, tons of crime and large problem with kidnapping of foreigners hence the rescue mission the op posted. The drug trade and all the crime that goes with it are still rampant. Don't even compare the Untied States with Colombia because you are insulting the US when you do that.

You're clueless. Utterly clueless.