American cars will be extinct by 2020.

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Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
3
76
I have to laugh whenever I see a 300M parked somewhere...knowing that they paid close to 30 grand for a car which will be worth 5 grand by the time they pay it off.

Meanwhile I purchased a Honda Accord for 22 grand which will be worth 15 grand when I pay it off.

If Chrysler, Chevy and Ford would make their cars more dependable then they might win fanbase. I had a Hyundai Excel that was more reliable and outlived(138000 vs 88000) a Chrysler Eagle Vision top of the line car. I spent more in repairs on the Chrysler than I paid for the Hyundai(tranny, electrical, fuel pump...you name it and it went wrong)
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
Originally posted by: 440sixpack
Originally posted by: bunker
Originally posted by: amnesiac
My Toyota Tundra was assembled in Indianapolis. Ford, GM, and Dodge all assemble their full size pickups in canada or mexico.

My F-150 and last 2 Rangers were all assembled in Kentucky, where most of Ford's trucks are assembled.

As far as the unions are concerned, many imports are assembled here in the states. I find it hard to believe the UAW hasn't gotten their claws into those plants as well.

And Dodge Ram 1500's are assembled in Warren, MI and St. Louis (where mine is from, constructed of 81% American parts, right on the window sticker ;) ).


My neighbor's dodge ram truck, 1997 or 1998, was built in MEXICO
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,034
546
126
Originally posted by: Ladies Man
I'll always buy american... don't like it? suck my wang
Next thing I'll buy is a truck... and there's no way i'll buy anything but a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.... *in that order*

I'll also never own a car that's not a rwd v8.... right now what foreign car maker does that????

in short screw flanders....

zoom zoom

Lets see, all the Lexus V8 sedans are RWD, all BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Jaguar V8 sedans are RWD or AWD. Now, those might not be affordable to average consumer, but they are manufactured and bought it relatively large number.

And GM has a major, tho not controlling(?), stake in Subaru.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: Nitemare
I have to laugh whenever I see a 300M parked somewhere...knowing that they paid close to 30 grand for a car which will be worth 5 grand by the time they pay it off.

Meanwhile I purchased a Honda Accord for 22 grand which will be worth 15 grand when I pay it off.

If Chrysler, Chevy and Ford would make their cars more dependable then they might win fanbase. I had a Hyundai Excel that was more reliable and outlived(138000 vs 88000) a Chrysler Eagle Vision top of the line car. I spent more in repairs on the Chrysler than I paid for the Hyundai(tranny, electrical, fuel pump...you name it and it went wrong)

sure thats buying a new car. personally i think buying new car is a bad idea. i would rather have a nice used one myself.

i would like a Accord. but as you said it is still worth a lot when you trade it in. so all the accords i looked at were ~$17 grand for some with about 20-40k miles. for about 5k more i would have gotten a NEW one. thats just plain silly.

I purchased a 02 taurus with under 20k miles for $13k (includes tax title and extended warrenty!) i will drive it until it hits about 70k and sale it and get a newer vehicle. i can still trade it in for a few thousand.

I do think Honda's are great cars. But i would NOT buy one unless i bought new. they are great cars. i have had 3 of them (2 accords and one prelude). never had a major problem. But i have owned a few fords and have yet to have major problems with them either.
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81
Originally posted by: cherrytwist
Originally posted by: slag
My maxima was made in Japan and prepped in California. It has never seen Mexico.

And most VWs are assembled in Brazil, not Mexico. The parts are manufactured in Germany.

Partially correct.

The Golf and GTI are assembled in Brazil, while the Jetta sedan and New Beetle are assembled in Mexico. The Passat and Jetta Wagon are still manufactured in Germany.
 

johneetrash

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
3,791
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
That is my prediction.

American manufacturers have shot themselves in the foot.

1) Can't compete with imports. This can't be argued. At any given price point imports have many more and in the mind of consumers "better" choices.

1. Dodge SRT-4. Corvette Z06
 

JetsFanatic

Platinum Member
Aug 29, 2001
2,319
0
0
www.wharffrat.com
From orig post "4) Unions - stupid high school dropouts demanding WAY too much in pay, benefits and retirement. Foreign country's labor is fractions of the cost. More erroded margins."


I ain't no dumb fvck high school dropout.

I am a pround member of a union! And I work in the IT field. Union are to protect employees and make the work force a fair and even place for everyone. I don't know what they are teaching you guys in college. But, Unions made America what it is today. And now with Corporate GREED trying trying to kill all the Union. They are killing America also. If union employees don't work, they can't buy new items. I have ranted long enough.


 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Finality
Originally posted by: Desslok
Show me an Asain Heavy Duty Diesel truck that can compete with the big three and I will concede your point.

Nissan Titan. That thing is a bloody monster. I told the guy at the dealership to give me a call just to see how big that fvcker is.

Originally posted by: tokamak
according to what i just looked up, GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler were the 3rd, 5th, and 7th largest corporations IN THE WORLD in 2002. it will take longer than 17 years for a company of that size to just disappear

*cough* Enron *cough*

I still dont get how GM is so big though. You dont see too many GM products on the road granted there are a load of cheap cavaliers running about but generally lacking.

the following are GM cars....

Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, HUMMER

Oldsmobile is dead, Buick is dieing, GMC is rare, Hummer is rare. So Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy.
 

440sixpack

Senior member
May 30, 2000
790
0
76
Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: 440sixpack
Originally posted by: bunker
Originally posted by: amnesiac
My Toyota Tundra was assembled in Indianapolis. Ford, GM, and Dodge all assemble their full size pickups in canada or mexico.

My F-150 and last 2 Rangers were all assembled in Kentucky, where most of Ford's trucks are assembled.

As far as the unions are concerned, many imports are assembled here in the states. I find it hard to believe the UAW hasn't gotten their claws into those plants as well.

And Dodge Ram 1500's are assembled in Warren, MI and St. Louis (where mine is from, constructed of 81% American parts, right on the window sticker ;) ).


My neighbor's dodge ram truck, 1997 or 1998, was built in MEXICO

Okay, let me clarify that - current gen Ram 1500's are assembled in Warren and St. Louis. 2500's and 3500's are for the most part still assembled in Saltillo, Mexico.

 

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
7,804
1
0
didn't read the whole thread..but regarding unions:

The Nissan/Toyota/Honda plants in the US don't have worker unions right? Its just the American manufactueres have it? So can't they get rid of unions somehow? (I'm not sure of the politics involved)
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"American cars will be extinct by 2020."
    • rolleye.gif
Hey Flash, where do you see Volkswagen in 20 years?
 

Babbles

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
8,253
14
81
Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
didn't read the whole thread..but regarding unions:

The Nissan/Toyota/Honda plants in the US don't have worker unions right? Its just the American manufactueres have it? So can't they get rid of unions somehow? (I'm not sure of the politics involved)

I don't think there is anyway that domestic manufacturers can easily get rid of unions in teh factory. They would have to fire eveyr single union employee in every single plant in North America. If they just tried to repalce all workers at one plant, then union workers at another plant would get together and strike and hold up all operations. The automaker would proabably be forced to try to hire away experience autoworkers from perhaps foreign owned companies, which in turn would cost money to lure them away.

Like it or not, unions are going to be here for a while.

Anyhow, on another note something I heard on the radio over here in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area: a Nissan dealer (Bankson Nissan in Irving) was offering one helluva deal for car buyers:
Buy one get one free.

That's right, a Nissan dealership was offering a buy one get one free on cars. Granted part of the catch was that the 'free' one had to be a used vehicle, and admittingly I do not know other details: TTL on the 'free' car, etc
Link

Now, this may just be one dealer period, but I wonder what this says about how the Nissan company is doing at the moment.

 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: jagr10
American cars are extremely popular in some states. In fact, if you look at the top 40 stolen cars in a few states, only 1 is an import. I don't agree that american cars will be extinct.

American owned companies with American BUILT cars will be extinct though....they almost already are.
 

HappyGamer2

Banned
Jun 12, 2000
1,441
0
0
yes american cars are in trouble, Ford and GM know it too and admit it.........cars that is but trucks and SUV are a different story for now.
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,168
1
0
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: B00ne
Originally posted by: spidey07
That is my prediction.

American manufacturers have shot themselves in the foot.

1) Can't compete with imports. This can't be argued. At any given price point imports have many more and in the mind of consumers "better" choices.
2) Conditioned buyers to expect 0% or huge rebates - lead to squeezed profit margins and in ford's case profits in the red. People refuse to buy without these incentives.
3) Lost the battle in consumers minds. People just don't associate american cars with quality.
4) Unions - stupid high school dropouts demanding WAY too much in pay, benefits and retirement. Foreign country's labor is fractions of the cost. More erroded margins.

The only thing keeping them afloat now is the scant diversification of each corporation and soon that will be unable to sustain the losses and the cash will be tight (it isn't right now).

So long Detroit. We'll miss ya.

For whatever reason cars from the US manufacturers are the way they are, but GM and Ford are the two biggest motor companies in the world. Their brands here in Europe (maybe AUS as well) are quite capable to compete, Japanese manufactureres only have a small portion of the market share...

So if they have a recipe for success here, why should they not be able to cook like that in the US?


Where do you live? Are there barriers, quotas or tarrifs, keeping the Japanese from competing in your country?

I am in Germany, and no there are no quotas or tariffs keeping the japanese away, but the jap. cars lack, thus they cant compete.
Japanese cars usually just copy innovations from european manufactuerers as well as design(elements), they might be cheaper at first but low resale value and comparatively expensive repairs make them less desirable I guess.

Btw imho their market share was way higher in the beginning of the nineties, when german manufacturers lost it a bit, but then there was an innovation explosion, and the japanese just cant keep up, and their design was bland (starting to change now (mazda6))

What is keeping them from selling more now, is that most of them do not offer a diesel lineup or the exsisting diesels just cant compete...

Image and safety, technology (fuel consumption) are very big selling points in Germany and that is the areas where german manufactueres excell, the Japanese cars image is: usually good quality, but only in the first 3 years, cheap, no style, copied..
 

HappyGamer2

Banned
Jun 12, 2000
1,441
0
0
yes Jap cars are lacking in the Charactor department, and there quality is over rated too in these times. sure they have good quailty , but people often forget they also often make the car for a year or two and work the bugs out of them before shipping them to the USA