American Bombs and Deformed Babies

[thraashman]

wtf dude does your political shilling ever fucking stop? it seems like if anybody disagrees with you on ANY issue the are a conservative. seriously you need help.

Those who replied showing a shocking lack of empathy are well established within P&N as taking the far right conservative viewpoint on every issue.

That's why I prefer the Democrat empathy of having a drone strike instead to ensure no future birth defect children. It solved the water boarding torture issue too since dropping bombs on someone's head with a Predator is far more moral than a CIA agent doing the same with water.

I've many times said I'm against the drone strikes but that I'm also against sending in ground troops. If something needs to be done I'm more comfortable with drone strikes than sending in an assault force, but that drones are both overused and that civilians are far too often caught in the crossfire. In fact I've stated it's one of the most legitimate criticisms of the Obama administration and I find it interesting that the GOP harps on stuff consistently easily proven bullshit yet largely ignores this.

 

[BoomerD]

You realize the article is about Iraq right?

Wait...are you saying there were no terrorists in Iraq?

 

[thraashman]

Wait...are you saying there were no terrorists in Iraq?

Not really until we went there.

 

[glenn1]

Not at all, I was just curious. You seem to have the same good Christian views as most other Christians I know.

Something like 73-76% of Americans self-identify as Christian, so it seems to be more a reflection on the people you know. I don't see why my Unitarian mid-Atlantic upbringing views would correspond more closely to some other random person due to religious reasons rather than class, education, or locale.

 

[Slew Foot]

if you deform a pakistani kid will they look normal?

 

[iGas]

Stop being/supporting terrorism and the bombs will stop.

The fucking "Islamoterrorists" don't seem to mind when their car bombs kill/injure children...

I didn't know the invasion of Iraq has anything to do with WMD and terrasists.

 

[The Green Bean]

They said they used it and now that's the cause of all birth defects? I don't think you get what he meant by "Accuracy of the article and to the cause/effect - Unsure"

It may or may not have caused the defects but it's not okay to use phosphorous and uranium. Hypocrisy--Americans went into Iraq to stop WMDs by using WMDs which may have caused more damage than WW2 atom bombs.

 

[nehalem256]

It does disgust me that we pitch a holy fit if another country uses chemical weapons, but we use stuff like depleted uranium and white phosphorous. This situation for Iraqis is very sad and they don't deserve to suffer from our short sightedness.

I understand how depleted uranium might cause birth defects. But can you explain how white phosphorous would be causing birth defects years later?

 

[BoomerD]

I didn't know the invasion of Iraq has anything to do with WMD and terrasists.

:biggrin:

 

[Linflas]

Most people won't read past "Al Jazeera’s reports"

In 1940 I wouldn't have read past "Völkischer Beobachter reports" either.

 

[Darwin333]

Something like 73-76% of Americans self-identify as Christian, so it seems to be more a reflection on the people you know. I don't see why my Unitarian mid-Atlantic upbringing views would correspond more closely to some other random person due to religious reasons rather than class, education, or locale.

I am not talking about people that self identify as Christians, I am talking about people that are generally very vocal about their religion (which would generally be the only reason I know what religion they are). As far as it just being people I know in my area, check out the majority of the people that let you know they are Christians right here on Anand and you will see a lot of them hold very similar "Christian ideals". You know good Christian ideals such as making light of babies being born with horrible birth defects or comparing the morality between torture and drone strikes which often kill innocent people. Lastly, I find it ironic that you say that class, education or locale would play a larger role in a persons beliefs yet you were very quick to point out that some of those horrible birth defects would give people practice killing people solely based on their religion.

This is one of the biggest reasons I don't believe that even most religious people believe the bullshit they say they do. If you truly believed in the fairy tale I highly doubt that you would have made the comments that you did in this thread.

Either way, you are one sick fuck and disgusting individual. My only hope is that perhaps they can study which wires got crossed in your head and come up with a fix in the future.

 

[Atreus21]

http://cavnews.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/iraqi-birth-defects-worse-than-hiroshima/

I don't even feel angry towards the USA anymore. I just feel sad for what the world has come to. Most Americans will probably defend this or refute the article and life will move on.

I don't defend it. I won't even try. I get sentimental about harm to infants and this is no exception.

I suppose the least pathetic excuse for it is that war is hell, and its long term affects are worse.

 

[Doppel]

I am not going to doubt the article; but there is a lot of shoddy and impact journalism in it leaving many questions unanswered that should have been addressed before publishing.

Yeah, the first half of article was like "lots of doctors say this" with no data.

But, then it gets to data, and some other links to other major publications. Seems to be something to it.

It should go without saying that pre-war cancer rates as official data from the Iraqi government are probably completely worthless, but I assume a decent researcher has considered that.

As always, the US really erred in going into Iraq and it is a shame that nobody in the US govt has been held accountable.

------

The rest of you should get with the picture. Al Jazeera is not some basement operation by Jidhadists (not entirely ). And in any case, that article does reference some other news sites.

 

[xj0hnx]

It may or may not have caused the defects but it's not okay to use phosphorous and uranium. Hypocrisy--Americans went into Iraq to stop WMDs by using WMDs which may have caused more damage than WW2 atom bombs.

Going to need a little more than "may have" to get outraged.

 

[JimKiler]

http://cavnews.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/iraqi-birth-defects-worse-than-hiroshima/

I don't even feel angry towards the USA anymore. I just feel sad for what the world has come to. Most Americans will probably defend this or refute the article and life will move on.

Obviously this is horrible to see, hopefully a lot of these kids can have a normal life and the cancer rates drop.

I never heard of white phosphorous or depleted uranium being used by the military before but like most things that cause cancer, academia cannot find a direct link between them.

And if the above two types of ingredients in weapons are to blame we need to go down the same road as landmines were the US is supposed to only be using destructible land mines which again cause a lot of damage after the battles are done.

 

[thraashman]

I understand how depleted uranium might cause birth defects. But can you explain how white phosphorous would be causing birth defects years later?

I didn't agree that it necessarily did. But there are many groups opposed to the use of chemical weapons that feel that white phosphorous should fall under the Chemical Weapons Convention. If we're going to be so high and mighty we shouldn't do something that may be just as bad as what we're opposed to. It's like telling someone it's wrong to key someone's car and then smashing the window instead.

Going to need a little more than "may have" to get outraged.

Well the person who mailed ricin to the President "may have" caused serious harm to someone, but they're still in fucking trouble for it.

 

[xj0hnx]

Well the person who mailed ricin to the President "may have" caused serious harm to someone, but they're still in fucking trouble for it.

Not even close to the same thing.

 

[OverVolt]

Saw this on PBS. The piece on PBS said it was more heavy metal toxicity than radioactivity of the DU.

It also mostly affected Fallujah, where fighting was heaviest.

 

[CitizenKain]

Most people won't read past "Al Jazeera’s reports"

They use words too big for the average rightwinger to understand.

 

[Zargon]

The Americans did admit to using phosphorous and depleted uranium shells. Imagine if Iran or Syria had used those...

what does that have to do with the lead content of the water, which the article seems to think is related to the cancer and birth defect outbreak?

it also mentions rates going up prior to 2003

if you want to blame the US for blowing up treatment plants in 1993 during gulf 1 fine, but why where they rebuilt in the following 10 years?


DU is harmful, but most fo that is related to being around when the rounds are fired and when they explode(as far as I understand it)

its radiation content when its sitting around is extremely low, so low we let people be around it all the time

 

[MovingTarget]

Saw this on PBS. The piece on PBS said it was more heavy metal toxicity than radioactivity of the DU.

It also mostly affected Fallujah, where fighting was heaviest.

This. Most people see "Uranium" and think "OMGNUKES" and flail about without looking any further into the matter. DU is dangerous, but not for its radioactivity. I'd honestly be more concerned if they were using a lighter metal, such as lead, than I would depleted uranium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

What TheGreenBean may not realize is that most of us here are open to the claims he makes in this thread, but the article he links is short on facts that back up its assertations. We need reliable data and statistical analysis which is sorely lacking.

 

[Jaskalas]

Most people won't read past "Al Jazeera’s reports"

I bet people in the Middle East will read the report. Whether accurate or not, it is now an idea that Americans are responsible for a rise in birth defects. Maybe Saddam wasn't so bad after all.

Iraq was a mistake for many reasons, most importantly, the negative consequences that will return to us later. That we had a war, used munitions, and caused cancer / birth defects will be common knowledge for them - but will it be common knowledge among us?

Will we owe up to it? If we are responsible... how do we pay, or make this right?

 

[lilrayray69]

I like how you guys act as if Al Jazeera is sooo much worse than CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc....
They're based in Qatar, and their own office buildings have suffered US bombings so of course there is going to a bias there, but they don't hide it.
If you want news on the middle east, a news company that's actually there is probably a better source.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...0130108_1_al-jazeera-english-philip-seib-bias
http://www.economist.com/news/middl...-network-bids-american-viewers-must-do-better
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/04/world/al-jazeera
if you care to actually read anything about Al-Jazeera, good and bad

It's a known fact depleted uranium shells were used during the first gulf war, as our own soldiers suffered from the effects. I don't think it's been proven either way if WP can cause birth defects. Destroyed industrial buildings, equipment, leftover and discarded military supplies and other pollution could contribute as well.

I don't see how that country could ever forgive the USA, they are no better off now than they were under Saddam, who we helped put in place, except now there are a lot less of them alive.