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American auto makers dont care about emissions

With all the talk of greenhouse gasses, auto emisions, and raising standars, the latest report shows US automakers are the best.....at polluting out atmosphere.

I read something that said from the time a major change is made for an auto (from R&D to showroom floor) is somewhere between 3-5 years. This means foreign automakers have been working on this long before Americans started caring. Im curious if anyone here is in the auto business (other than finance or sales) that may know why the lag time for the US to catch up? I suspect it is over regulation by our gov't. I honestly believe we have legislated our way out of world leaders in regards to technology.

(P.S. Please, for the love of all that is good, lets try and have an honest discussion and not bash people for their opinions. And for God's sake resist bashing Bush in this..he has already urged lawmakers to reduce emissions by 20% and is trying lol)

Honda, Toyota Lead Latest Auto Environmental Performance Report
Brandon Hill (Blog) - April 9, 2007 1:01 AM

Honda and Toyota lead the list with domestic manufacturers pulling up the rear


Honda has always been a leader in the realm of fuel efficiency and environmentally friendliness. The Japanese auto manufacturer has consistently rolled out Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicles (ULEVs) and Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEVs) that dump less polluting emissions into our atmosphere. Honda brought the first hybrid-electric vehicle to the U.S. market in the form of the Insight. The tiny, tadpole-esque two-seater weighed less than 1,900 pounds and managed to achieve EPA mileage ratings of 60MPG/66MPG city/highway with a manual transmission.

Honda was also one of the first auto manufacturers to reintroduce the use of continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) to the North American market in the mid 1990s with the Civic HX -- Subaru had first tried out CVTs in the 1980s with the Justy. CVTs allow the engine to run at the most efficient RPMs and allow for increased fuel efficiency. Likewise, Honda has resisted the urge to drop a potent V8 engine in its largest SUVs and luxury sedans and has instead relied on pushing its efficient 3.5 liter V6 engine family to customers who purchase its largest vehicles.

This level of restraint and eco-friendliness on the part of Honda has led it to be labeled as the "2007 Greenest Automaker" by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS). This is the fourth consecutive year that the automaker has won the award.

The top 8 auto manufacturers -- which represent 96% of the U.S. car and light truck market -- were tested across ten MY2005 vehicle classes on tailpipe emissions and overall contribution to global warming. You can download the full results of the UCS test here (linkyPDF).

"Honda remains the greenest U.S. automaker. The company installs clean technology across its entire fleet of cars and trucks and that consistency makes it a top environmental performer" said Don MacKenzie, a vehicle engineer for the UCS and author of the report. "In addition, Honda continues to have the best smog score in four out of the five classes."

Honda slightly beat out second place Toyota which has also made strides to cut emissions and improve fuel economy across its entire vehicle lineup. "Toyota's ranking shows that size is no excuse for a dirty fleet," MacKenzie continued. "All of the automakers have the technology today to make all of their vehicles, from two-seaters to four-by-fours, a lot cleaner."

Hyundai/Kia placed third with Nissan and Volkswagen taking fourth and fifth respectively. Ford, General Motors and DaimlerChrysler rounded out the tail end of the list. General Motors was singled out for having the most vehicles in the lineup with EPA city mileage ratings of 15MPG or lower. Last place DaimlerChrysler was also criticized for its fleet of vehicles which produce 70% more pollutants than first place Honda and earned the "Rusty Tailpipe Award."

"There is a huge gap between the cleanest and dirtiest automakers," MacKenzie. "The winners are using clean technology across their entire fleets. The losers are installing it piecemeal, or not at all."

"Americans are paying closer attention to their personal environmental impact, and they want greener cars," said Ted Grozier of environmental strategy consulting firm GreenOrder. "The successful automaker is going to figure out a way to deliver those cars to consumers."

Just last week, President Bush issued a call to auto manufacturers to boost fuel efficiency and reduce greenhouse gas emissions in new vehicles. Bush's plan calls for a 20% reduction in gasoline usage by 2017 and a halt in the rise of greenhouse emissions. The move is expected to cost the auto industry $114 billion USD.

Source is HERE
 
1. The North American automakers cannot profit off of smaller cars so they concentrated where the big profit margin was, trucks and SUVs.

2. GM, Ford, and Chrysler, have more trucks in their line ups by model types. Therefor its easy for them to exceed Toyota, Honda, and Nissan.

3. its Union of Concerned Scientists. They sound great, love to tout their own horn, but I take anything they do with a grain of salt.

4. Averaging of models and their sales? Uh, no. Take each by its own model.

5. Most of the American vehicles offer 8 cylinder OPTIONS

6. Fortunately for Toyota and Nissan they sell enough offsetting cars to hide the hideous environmental numbers for Lexus and Infiniti



Their emissions are in line with FEDERAL requlations, not some make believe numbers one group or another is pontificating about? If the market wants cleaner vehicles it will get them.

Regardless, even if we get cleaner vehicles are we going to outlaw older ones? What about the poor? Are we going to subsidize their vehicles? Cleaning up new cars isn't going to do squat for the millions of older vehicles
 
Originally posted by: Shivetya
1. The North American automakers cannot profit off of smaller cars so they concentrated where the big profit margin was, trucks and SUVs.
-We're not talking about profit, we're talking about the US automakers inability to keep up with foreign auto maker's rising advances in emmisions reduction. How do foreign automakers make a profit if a profit isnt to be had by small cars?

2. GM, Ford, and Chrysler, have more trucks in their line ups by model types. Therefor its easy for them to exceed Toyota, Honda, and Nissan.
-Somewhat agree, but year after year foreign trucks (specifically Toyota) outperform American trusks in both payload capability and straigh out performance. If Toyota can make a better performing V8 with less emissions, why cant we?
3. its Union of Concerned Scientists. They sound great, love to tout their own horn, but I take anything they do with a grain of salt.
-Spot on, sir
4. Averaging of models and their sales? Uh, no. Take each by its own model.
-Agree also
5. Most of the American vehicles offer 8 cylinder OPTIONS
-So do many foreign companies. And so what? Americans get caught up in the "my P*nis is bigger than yours" crap. There isnt ONE American car that can outperform a foreign competitor. Yeah, the Ford GT, Mustang Shelby, Corvette, yada yada yada are great performers. But they eat the dust of Japanese and German auto's that have half the engine size. Hell, my rotary in my RX7 is only 1300cc and I wipe up Mustand GT's all day long. Bah, didnt mean to digress into performance...I hope you get my point though.
6. Fortunately for Toyota and Nissan they sell enough offsetting cars to hide the hideous environmental numbers for Lexus and Infiniti
-Gotta start somewhere right? US automakers havent even finished their coffee break in this regard.

Their emissions are in line with FEDERAL requlations, not some make believe numbers one group or another is pontificating about? If the market wants cleaner vehicles it will get them.
-Agree. But I think we all agree "Federal Regulation numbers" isnt gonna get us out of the emissions trouble were in.
Regardless, even if we get cleaner vehicles are we going to outlaw older ones? What about the poor? Are we going to subsidize their vehicles? Cleaning up new cars isn't going to do squat for the millions of older vehicles
-Of course not! But again, we have to start somewhere. Unless, of course, doing nothing is an acceptable option.

Thanks man for your input. Got me thinking on a few things. I love a good conversation!
 
Yeah but your RX-7 also gets absolutely terrible gas mileage and probably belches more fumes than a Corvette or Mustang GT.

Not trying to by a hypocrite, I drive a WRX and get horrible gas mileage as well, but don't point to rotaries as a beacon on a hill with regards to gas mileage or emissions.
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Yeah but your RX-7 also gets absolutely terrible gas mileage and probably belches more fumes than a Corvette or Mustang GT.

Not trying to by a hypocrite, I drive a WRX and get horrible gas mileage as well, but don't point to rotaries as a beacon on a hill with regards to gas mileage or emissions.

/blush

Well, yeah. Thats why I added "didnt mean to digress haha.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: ayabe
Yeah but your RX-7 also gets absolutely terrible gas mileage and probably belches more fumes than a Corvette or Mustang GT.

Not trying to by a hypocrite, I drive a WRX and get horrible gas mileage as well, but don't point to rotaries as a beacon on a hill with regards to gas mileage or emissions.

/blush

Well, yeah. Thats why I added "didnt mean to digress haha.

😀

But, I will jump at any opportunity to talk about cars, certainly more fun than talking about how crappy the world is.
 
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The North American automakers cannot profit off of smaller cars so they concentrated where the big profit margin was, trucks and SUVs.

-Of course not! But again, we have to start somewhere. Unless, of course, doing nothing is an acceptable option.

Your heroes did worse than nothing the last 7 years pushing giant gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks.

I have to laugh and cry about the "cannot profit off of smaller cars" spewage.

 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.

No there aren't. The size of your dick has nothing to do with the size of your dick.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.

No there aren't. The size of your dick has nothing to do with the size of your dick.

Looks like someone didn't get the pussy magnet option with his Hummer. 😛
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.

No there aren't. The size of your dick has nothing to do with the size of your dick.

Looks like someone didn't get the pussy magnet option with his Hummer. 😛

You must be talking about Ahhnold?
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.

No there aren't. The size of your dick has nothing to do with the size of your dick.

Looks like someone didn't get the pussy magnet option with his Hummer. 😛

You must be talking about Ahhnold?

Well kind of, more like Borat, there's a scene in the movie where he goes to a dealership and looks at Hummers and keeps asking the salesman where the pussy magnet is installed, how he can buy one, etc. It's pretty awesome.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

Really? Holy sh1t you might let a friend of mine know he's in the wrong business! He drags rotaries, is 6'2", and all the f'ing women that hang around in the pit all call him by his nickname (which they gave him) which is 10 Ben. And 10 doesnt refer to anything but his...

Sheesh. I believe now you are female. If not, you just lost your man card.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.

No there aren't. The size of your dick has nothing to do with the size of your dick.

heh

someone on this board has ZERO game 😉 Poor thing.
 
I seem to recall that GM has ~half the research budget of toyota. This is simply because GM is so unprofitable. That's one reason they lag behind other automakers.

As fas as the US auto industry in general, I think a lot of it is just mindset. People in the US don't care about emmisssions and fuel consumption and the US automakers not caring is just an extension of that. The rest of the industrilized world came to the conclusion that oil should be conserved 20+ years ago but people in the US were eating up huge SUVs until just recently. This is indicative of the different attitudes in the world when it comes to oil.
 
Noone is stopping you from buying Aveo or Cobalt.
Honda is going to remain the greenest automaker because it has no chance in the truck market.
Toyota wishes it was less green, but Tundra isn't selling.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Noone is stopping you from buying Aveo or Cobalt.
Honda is going to remain the greenest automaker because it has no chance in the truck market.
Toyota wishes it was less green, but Tundra isn't selling.

I'm seeing quite a few tundras for a truck "that isn't selling"
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: senseamp
Noone is stopping you from buying Aveo or Cobalt.
Honda is going to remain the greenest automaker because it has no chance in the truck market.
Toyota wishes it was less green, but Tundra isn't selling.

I'm seeing quite a few tundras for a truck "that isn't selling"

Few being the key word.
 
The short answer is: The vast majority of American consumers simply don?t care. They especially don?t care enough to spend a few extra dollars on a product simply because its ?greener? or ?made in the USA? etc? Hell, the American consumer barely cares about gas mileage and that does hit them in the pocketbook.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Performance is very important to short men with inferior dicks. The auto is the modern equivalent of a mojo bag carried by a Neanderthal to show his sexual powers. And so the chimpanzee unconscious of imbeciles day by day destroys our world.

FYI - there are guys with big dicks and fast cars.

No there aren't. The size of your dick has nothing to do with the size of your dick.

heh

someone on this board has ZERO game 😉 Poor thing.

So so true. I have zero game but lots and lots of real. The orgasm I'm having has lasted for years. 😉

 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Noone is stopping you from buying Aveo or Cobalt.
Honda is going to remain the greenest automaker because it has no chance in the truck market.
Toyota wishes it was less green, but Tundra isn't selling.

Nobody wants an Aveo or Cobalt when they can get a Yaris, Corolla, Fit, or Civic.

Honda doesn't want to be in the truck market. They created the Pilot, Ridgeline, MDX, and RDX b/c of synergies with existing platforms, synergies across these platforms, and they knew they could do a better job than their competitors.

GM has no choice but to be a truck company. That's all they know how to make (at a profit). Granted, some recent GM cars are looking better.

Toyota wants to be the world's #1 automaker. You cannot do that without a big helping of v8-powered trucks to sell to dumb arse Americans.

GM has half the R&D budget of Toyota b/c Toyota chooses to invest in its entire lineup instead of heaping the lion's share of its budget into 40 styles of Silverado 1500 . . . including 7 engines.
and then neglecting its cars.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So so true. I have zero game but lots and lots of real. The orgasm I'm having has lasted for years. 😉
That would explain most of the nonsensical gibberish you post around here. 😛
 
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
I seem to recall that GM has ~half the research budget of toyota. This is simply because GM is so unprofitable. That's one reason they lag behind other automakers.

As fas as the US auto industry in general, I think a lot of it is just mindset. People in the US don't care about emmisssions and fuel consumption and the US automakers not caring is just an extension of that. The rest of the industrilized world came to the conclusion that oil should be conserved 20+ years ago but people in the US were eating up huge SUVs until just recently. This is indicative of the different attitudes in the world when it comes to oil.

I think youre right
 
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