American Airlines orders 460 Boeing and Airbus aircraft

[Zorba]

second to done or second to none? There is a huge difference between the two

Assuming it is the latter, I guess I am still confused. If they are so well maintained then why are they only fit for 3rd world countries at this point?

I don't know the first thing about commercial aircraft which is probably why I am so confused. Is it just a cost/expected lifespan issue (again, if well maintained it should fetch a decent price and last long enough to justify it??)?

I know its not a valid comparison but the last used car I sold was better then I see in most 3rd world countries.

It isn't really true that all retied AA aircraft will go to 3rd world countries. 2nd tier airlines will likely buy a lot, such as Allegiant Airlines, who is currently looking for 757s and MD-80s to buy. Most of the 757s will likely be bought by companies such as Allegiant or converted to freighters. FedEx loves the 757. AA also retired a handful of ex-TWA 757s a few years ago that Delta took possession of.

Some will go to the scrap yard and be parted out, which once parted out they can be worth much more than as a whole aircraft. Also when you're actively retiring aircraft, you can use the scrap yard as a way to not perform expensive maintenance/repairs, which makes the aircraft worth much less than the average retired aircraft. For example, this year a tornado hit the STL airport damaging a handful of aircraft. The most severely damaged 757 would've likely been given a one cycle ferry permit and flown to the desert.

The biggest thing that will determine where the aircraft go is the demand. 1st tier airlines more than likely won't want them (with the possible exception of the newer 757s), because they are less fuel efficient and they add too many cycles in a year. 2nd tier and freight airlines will want a handful, but they wouldn't be able to adsorb AA's entire fleet of MD80s and 757s. Then the rest will go to 3rd tier airlines in 3rd world countries, the scrap yard, or a lucky few will be donated to tech schools for future mechanics to train with (AA has already donated at least 3 MD80s for this purpose).

EDIT: I didn't address this specifically. "Is it just a cost/expected lifespan issue (again, if well maintained it should fetch a decent price and last long enough to justify it??)?"

Most of the airplanes AA will retire will be 20 to 25 years old at retirement, some of them older. Also most of the 757s will have over 25K cycles and 100K hours on them at retirement. 25K cycles is half the rated life on the 757, at 50K cycles mandatory maintenance becomes so costly you have yourself an expensive paperweight. Fatigue is caused by cycles, so as the airframe adds cycles more and more components start to show the signs of fatigue, this adds cost and time to maintenance. But charters and freighters may only put 1 cycles a day on the airframe, where AA will put 3.5 to 4. Also there are time related issues, such as corrosion and wire decay.

But even with the aging of the aircraft, on paper it still makes since to fly used over new from a maintenance point of view, until you look at the dependability (off the gate on time). As aircraft age they will spend more time out of service, take more gate delays, cancels, etc a charter company can work with this due to the low number of flights a day, but when you are trying to have an aircraft in the air 18 hours a day it becomes very difficult.

The other major cost are the engines. Doing a major overhaul on an engine costs more than the engine did new and could cost more than the aircraft is worth, so if you can sell the aircraft before this cost occurs you are way ahead (look at aerotrader for examples of this on small planes). 2nd tier airlines avoid this cost by buying mid time engines off the spares market and flying them until they need overhaul and then selling them for scrap. 1st tier airlines won't do this and can't even if they wanted to, because the surplus market for engines is supplied by the retirement of aircraft by the major airlines.

One last thing, 2nd tier and especially 3rd tier airlines have very low costs, so the can still have competitive fares when paying 30% more for fuel. AA has the highest cost in the industry, so counting cost on fuel is very important.

 

[davmat787]

re-engine of the 737 is going to be very expensive, the current airframe can not support it without serious redesign. The successor of the 737 has not been announced yet and would only be available after 2020 at the earliest. Boeing is facing a serious issue with the 737, the current model doesn't cut it anymore and is difficult to develop any further and there is no new design on the horizon

To say the 737 does not cut it anymore is a little unfair in my opinion. As of today, there are 2109 737's that have been ordered and waiting to be built. That suggests a ton of interest in the 737 that still remains.

Boeing continues to add features like the flat rear pressure bulkhead that squeezes viability out of the design. But, I do agree that without a new engine option, the interest will wain in the near future, especially true if the A320NEO delivers on significant fuel and operating cost savings.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial...report.cfm&pageid=m25066&RequestTimeout=20000

 

[freegeeks]

To say the 737 does not cut it anymore is a little unfair in my opinion. As of today, there are 2109 737's that have been ordered and waiting to be built. That suggests a ton of interest in the 737 that still remains.

Boeing continues to add features like the flat rear pressure bulkhead that squeezes viability out of the design. But, I do agree that without a new engine option, the interest will wain in the near future, especially true if the A320NEO delivers on significant fuel and operating cost savings.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial...report.cfm&pageid=m25066&RequestTimeout=20000

I'm merely an aviation enthusiast. The analysis about the future of the 737 is coming from airlines (like AA) and aviation experts. Re-engine of the 737 is going to be very costly, the NEO option on the a320 is apparantly pretty straightforward. There are already more A320 orders then 737 and it doesn't look very good for future orders. Airlines are looking to get new planes to bridge the gap until 2020-2025 when Boeing and Airbus will deliver new shortrange aircraft. Boeing needs to come up with something or they risk to loose a big part of this market in the next 10-15 years. The a320 neo was announced in december 2010 and airbus has already 1100 orders, making it one of the fastest selling aircraft ever

 

[TheSlamma]

oh man thank you! get those MD's out to the scrap yard