America trusts Democrats as much as Trump

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,352
126
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/yea...ficit-confidence-government/story?id=60599584

This is why I keep saying America is beyond redemption. Liberals will always be as bad as or worse than any malicious behavior the GOP can muster.
This is why I stress not just arguing for progressive change, but documenting and proving it makes a difference. If it doesn’t improve it isn’t progressive.
Its always seemed a bit arrogant to believe I could change the world.
no more so than to think you couldn’t. We’re you looking for praise or payment of debt?
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,939
7,459
136
The necessity of the GOP toward radicalizing its base in order to keep the party competitive is to me one of, if not the most influential factor for why our gov't has been so fractured and incapable of operating the way it should.

This coupled with the tendency of the GOP's constituency toward resisting the ongoing inevitable changes or evolution (as it were) that the nation and the world it relates to is going through is increasingly turning the GOP into an dysfunctional anachronism that's out of step and out of time with the rest of the nation and the world.

You can see it in what the GOP rank and file want from Trump. They want isolationism, nationalism, traditionalism and nativism. Worse still, many of the party want to turn the clock back to a much earlier time when there was no perceived threat to the "natural order of things" in the social structure of the times.

There is no room for compromising while the nation's evangelists/religious fundamentalists, racists, Nazis, white supremacists et al of whom represent a large portion of the GOP have a desire to turn back the clock to a time when they wielded a much more popular and powerful influence over the nation's people.

Trump promised them all these things they were asking for and gave them the courage to come out from the shadows, to lay aside their morals, their ethics, their religious tenets, their common sense in order to, in their minds, steer the nation into a u-turn back to those good 'ol days.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
This is why I stress not just arguing for progressive change, but documenting and proving it makes a difference. If it doesn’t improve it isn’t progressive.

no more so than to think you couldn’t. We’re you looking for praise or payment of debt?

No, I'm looking to enjoy life while I have it with the people that are around me.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The necessity of the GOP toward radicalizing its base in order to keep the party competitive is to me one of, if not the most influential factor for why our gov't has been so fractured and incapable of operating the way it should.

This coupled with the tendency of the GOP's constituency toward resisting the ongoing inevitable changes or evolution (as it were) that the nation and the world it relates to is going through is increasingly turning the GOP into an dysfunctional anachronism that's out of step and out of time with the rest of the nation and the world.

You can see it in what the GOP rank and file want from Trump. They want isolationism, nationalism, traditionalism and nativism. Worse still, many of the party want to turn the clock back to a much earlier time when there was no perceived threat to the "natural order of things" in the social structure of the times.

There is no room for compromising while the nation's evangelists/religious fundamentalists, racists, Nazis, white supremacists et al of whom represent a large portion of the GOP have a desire to turn back the clock to a time when they wielded a much more popular and powerful influence over the nation's people.

Trump promised them all these things they were asking for and gave them the courage to come out from the shadows, to lay aside their morals, their ethics, their religious tenets, their common sense in order to, in their minds, steer the nation into a u-turn back to those good 'ol days.


Of course. The GOP has framed it in terms of conservative values being attacked by Libs for decades. It's never really been true at all. The only way they're being attacked is in top down class warfare from the leadership they follow.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,523
136
This is why I stress not just arguing for progressive change, but documenting and proving it makes a difference. If it doesn’t improve it isn’t progressive.

no more so than to think you couldn’t. We’re you looking for praise or payment of debt?
Ah, I remember the good old days when documentation and proof made a damn bit of difference.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,042
136
Ah, I remember the good old days when documentation and proof made a damn bit of difference.

There's a base that does not care. But it still matters to everyone else!

Moreover, Republicans like Trump would love to keep the conversation on personal attacks and other BS while they have no capacity to win via better policy. They want the public distracted from their failures / lack of solutions. Having us pressure them on policy would be to hit him on their weak side.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
This article emphasizes a significant political hurtle dems face. The republican core will view their leaders in a positive light regardless of how horrific those leaders are. There is absolutely no accountability. This seems to be composed of about 35% of the US population. On the other hand, if there is a similar faction of democrats, it is significantly smaller. Democrats appear to be much more strict in holding their party's politicians to some standard. As a result, democrat politicians can rise and fall to a much greater extent because the party members aren't willing to just turn a blind eye. In fact, even democratic politicians that by all objective standards are performing quite admirably in their jobs are held to standards that are really quite baffling by the democratic party.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,939
7,459
136
There's a base that does not care. But it still matters to everyone else!

Moreover, Republicans like Trump would love to keep the conversation on personal attacks and other BS while they have no capacity to win via better policy. They want the public distracted from their failures / lack of solutions. Having us pressure them on policy would be to hit him on their weak side.

Better policy in reference to how the working class folks of the nation would benefit from is anathema toward the goals of the wealthy. Therein lies the perpetual conundrum the Repub Party has to constantly lie and deceive their way around because although the party needs the votes of the blue collar workers to stay in power the undeniably represent the wishes and desires of the wealthy when push comes to shove. The last farce that the Repubs pulled on their working class constituents with the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy is a perfect blatant example of the duplicity that the Repub Party and especially so Trump pulled on their average joe members. Trump specifically said over and over again how the tax cut deal would be so great for the middle class yet the exact opposite occurred after the dust settled on the scam that was being perpetrated by these professional proprietors of lies. Same with the wonderful health care program Trump promised he was going to deliver to the people.

And after all of this blatant smoke and mirrors scam that was perpetrated against their own rank and file members became clear as day, Trump and the Repub Congress cronies he holds sway over are still overwhelmingly popular with their working class folks who were plainly and obviously victimized by their elected leaders.

I'll never truly understand why that is.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
I'll never truly understand why that is.

To quote Robinson Crusoe (though in this case youth should likely be exchanged for elderly), “I have since often observed, how incongruous and irrational the common temper of mankind is, especially of youth ... that they are not ashamed to sin, and yet are ashamed to repent; not ashamed of the action for which they ought justly to be esteemed fools, but are ashamed of the returning, which only can make them be esteemed wise men.”
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,042
136
Yes. Both sides...

That's not what he endorsed.

It's actually nihilism. Saying that (he believes) the American people are too stupid, beyond hope or redemption. And that was sharing his thought as to why.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,042
136
Approval and trust are different things.

I think to render opinion on your comments, we would need to compare to past polls of the same thing with the same methods/source population. Or as close as we can get with some greater uncertainty.

I believe my second post quotes something from the OP's article that is as near or similar as we are likely to get. With regards to the cost of incumbency on Trump's poll numbers. The before / after is quite encouraging.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,352
126
Better policy in reference to how the working class folks of the nation would benefit from is anathema toward the goals of the wealthy. Therein lies the perpetual conundrum the Repub Party has to constantly lie and deceive their way around because although the party needs the votes of the blue collar workers to stay in power the undeniably represent the wishes and desires of the wealthy when push comes to shove. The last farce that the Repubs pulled on their working class constituents with the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy is a perfect blatant example of the duplicity that the Repub Party and especially so Trump pulled on their average joe members. Trump specifically said over and over again how the tax cut deal would be so great for the middle class yet the exact opposite occurred after the dust settled on the scam that was being perpetrated by these professional proprietors of lies. Same with the wonderful health care program Trump promised he was going to deliver to the people.

And after all of this blatant smoke and mirrors scam that was perpetrated against their own rank and file members became clear as day, Trump and the Repub Congress cronies he holds sway over are still overwhelmingly popular with their working class folks who were plainly and obviously victimized by their elected leaders.

I'll never truly understand why that is.
People who hate themselves feel at an unconscious level they are victims. As it is the soul’s longing to heal, but a terror of consciously rembering our victimization, we go for the feeling vicariously by acting out our victimization. The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. It carries a dagger it sticks in our backs. We have met the enemy and it is us.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,523
136
A man convinced again his will is of the same opinion still. If you can stomach watching this let me know what you think:

https://www.ted.com/talks/arthur_brooks_a_conservative_s_plea_let_s_work_together
I think it was a fantastic example of how brainwashed Americans are against liberals. Obviously a somewhat smart guy actually thinks liberals don't like economic freedom. You know where he got the idea that liberals don't like the free market? I don't know either but I do know he didn't get it from a fucking liberal.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,042
136
I think it was a fantastic example of how brainwashed Americans are against liberals. Obviously a somewhat smart guy actually thinks liberals don't like economic freedom. You know where he got the idea that liberals don't like the free market? I don't know either but I do know he didn't get it from a fucking liberal.

Haven't watched him yet, but I can speak of Republican Conservatism in the general sense, as I know it.

I know where he got the idea from. For all the hoops and hurdles, the complex layers of bureaucracy Europe and "Left" leaning States have over jobs and businesses. They view it as "strangling" business, which becomes the enemy of "jobs"... and of the people. They shriek in horror at the idea of Welfare because it means the Great Satan has control over you. They pay your bills, so clearly they can tell you what to do. AKA loss of freedom.

This is all fear. Fear of the other. Fear of needing the other. Fear of connecting to fellow human beings.

The slippery slope fallacy is then made to tie helping people with socialism... with communism... with genocide done under the communist banner. That justifies their fear. As if you want to go Stalin, or Mao, and kill all these undesirables. As "Leftist" regimes have done in recent history. The Republican mantra is free market, because without that you lose your freedom, and if we loose than then we face untold horrors.

The delusion begins, by thinking each man is an island unto himself. Free from others. And bootstraps are all we need. Connections to those delusions form their identity. Then the Ego makes up the excuses I laid out.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,880
1,550
126
Haven't watched him yet, but I can speak of Republican Conservatism in the general sense, as I know it.

I know where he got the idea from. For all the hoops and hurdles, the complex layers of bureaucracy Europe and "Left" leaning States have over jobs and businesses. They view it as "strangling" business, which becomes the enemy of "jobs"... and of the people. They shriek in horror at the idea of Welfare because it means the Great Satan has control over you. They pay your bills, so clearly they can tell you what to do. AKA loss of freedom.

This is all fear. Fear of the other. Fear of needing the other. Fear of connecting to fellow human beings.

The slippery slope fallacy is then made to tie helping people with socialism... with communism... with genocide done under the communist banner. That justifies their fear. As if you want to go Stalin, or Mao, and kill all these undesirables. As "Leftist" regimes have done in recent history. The Republican mantra is free market, because without that you lose your freedom, and if we loose than then we face untold horrors.

The delusion begins, by thinking each man is an island unto himself. Free from others. And bootstraps are all we need. Connections to those delusions form their identity. Then the Ego makes up the excuses I laid out.

I have some fear of "the Other". The "Other" is the Trump Base. I am convinced that America will be Great Again, when we can deport the space-alien Trumpies back to their home galaxy using Trump's Space Force.

I, at least, admit that a half-wit like Trump could come up with something useful, just by accident. Compare that to Trumpie-GOP views of Obama. You could see it two months after Obama's 2009 Inauguration, when Boehner stood up in Congress and shouted "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?! Where are the jobs?!"

When they hate someone, they apply the better-than-Jesus standard. When they like someone, they'll vote for the most despicable Filth ever to step on Fifth Avenue. That was a theme of one of my recent large bumper-sticker concoctions:

"Your Traitor-in-Chief is a Despicable Piece of Filth -- Maybe -- he's just like you!"
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I have some fear of "the Other". The "Other" is the Trump Base. I am convinced that America will be Great Again, when we can deport the space-alien Trumpies back to their home galaxy using Trump's Space Force.

I, at least, admit that a half-wit like Trump could come up with something useful, just by accident. Compare that to Trumpie-GOP views of Obama. You could see it two months after Obama's 2009 Inauguration, when Boehner stood up in Congress and shouted "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?! Where are the jobs?!"

When they hate someone, they apply the better-than-Jesus standard. When they like someone, they'll vote for the most despicable Filth ever to step on Fifth Avenue. That was a theme of one of my recent large bumper-sticker concoctions:

"Your Traitor-in-Chief is a Despicable Piece of Filth -- Maybe -- he's just like you!"

Trump is such a manly & magnificent bastard that they want to be just like him.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,352
126
I have some fear of "the Other". The "Other" is the Trump Base. I am convinced that America will be Great Again, when we can deport the space-alien Trumpies back to their home galaxy using Trump's Space Force.

I, at least, admit that a half-wit like Trump could come up with something useful, just by accident. Compare that to Trumpie-GOP views of Obama. You could see it two months after Obama's 2009 Inauguration, when Boehner stood up in Congress and shouted "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?! Where are the jobs?!"

When they hate someone, they apply the better-than-Jesus standard. When they like someone, they'll vote for the most despicable Filth ever to step on Fifth Avenue. That was a theme of one of my recent large bumper-sticker concoctions:

"Your Traitor-in-Chief is a Despicable Piece of Filth -- Maybe -- he's just like you!"
I have some fear of "the Other". The "Other" is the Trump Base. I am convinced that America will be Great Again, when we can deport the space-alien Trumpies back to their home galaxy using Trump's Space Force.

I, at least, admit that a half-wit like Trump could come up with something useful, just by accident. Compare that to Trumpie-GOP views of Obama. You could see it two months after Obama's 2009 Inauguration, when Boehner stood up in Congress and shouted "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?! Where are the jobs?!"

When they hate someone, they apply the better-than-Jesus standard. When they like someone, they'll vote for the most despicable Filth ever to step on Fifth Avenue. That was a theme of one of my recent large bumper-sticker concoctions:

"Your Traitor-in-Chief is a Despicable Piece of Filth -- Maybe -- he's just like you!"
Here's a summary of Obama's devastating counterattack on the Republicans, a twitter session that reached, what 169 thousand people? Have a read. The guy really knows how to land a punch.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,735
28,909
136
Congress has always scored low no matter who is in charge. Compare Trump's trust numbers compared to previous Presidents...
trust.png
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
But like I said, nobody can be truly happen in the world as it is. I believe that; you don't seem to.

I think what you call happiness is not what I would define it as. I can be happy even when things are not perfect. I can be happy when things are not even a 50/50 split.

That said, you are forgetting your previous statements.

He asks after having that just explained to him. Trust me or don't. I have decided you too emotionally committed to seeing how you see to open yourself to facts I regard as self evident. I know how that must sting. Anybody can say it and I just did. I'm happy, hope you are. I won't give up on you but this isn't worth my time.

Just try to imagine talking about a Risen Hominid to your aunt Martha, but not when she's holding knitting needles. Are you on drugs?

Not only are you happy, but, you hope others are as well. Weird statement for someone that thinks its impossible eh?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,352
126
I think what you call happiness is not what I would define it as. I can be happy even when things are not perfect. I can be happy when things are not even a 50/50 split.

That said, you are forgetting your previous statements.

He asks after having that just explained to him. Trust me or don't. I have decided you too emotionally committed to seeing how you see to open yourself to facts I regard as self evident. I know how that must sting. Anybody can say it and I just did. I'm happy, hope you are. I won't give up on you but this isn't worth my time.

Just try to imagine talking about a Risen Hominid to your aunt Martha, but not when she's holding knitting needles. Are you on drugs?

Not only are you happy, but, you hope others are as well. Weird statement for someone that thinks its impossible eh?
Thank you. I used to puzzle over two remarks made by different Zen Masters. If you haven’t got a stick(or maybe a pumpkin) I will give you one but if you have, I’ll take it away and the response, if you have a stick I will give you one and if you haven’t, I will take it away. I just may understand now.