Discussion "America is not the greatest country in the world anymore".

[HomerJS]

A fictional political panel. Character gives his justification as to why America isn't the greatest country in the world. This was recorded in 2012 so adjust statistics, however the numbers are close.

Is he right or wrong in his opinion and why?

 

[MrSquished]

I do not think America is the greatest country in the world at all. But I do think areas of the USA are some of the best areas in the entire world. The experiment of 1776 has backfired and is fundamentally broken, from its political institutions, to one of the two major political parties being so corrupt and evil that this country is on a fast track to the bottom of the barrel.

 

[balloonshark]

Deja Vu?

"America is not the greatest country in the world anymore"

AMEN. At least for me. What say ye? Not going to make a poll. Since this is from 2012 add to that mass shootings, school shootings and guns, the #1 cause of death to children. And we are on a steady decline.

forums.anandtech.com

 

[Pens1566]

I don't know ... it's tough to think of one that is better overall is where I lean on this one. So I guess my answer is a qualified version of "yes we are". But only because no one else has really stepped up in our place(s).

Having said that, we are SEVERELY diminished from where we were on say, September 10th, 2001. And we probably peaked around like the moon landing give or take a few years. We're rapidly trending downwards on almost all measures, so it's possible we're only a bit of time or a black swan or two away from the answer being "No, we're not".

 

[purbeast0]

Grand Cayman > USA.

And they don't need tourism to survive either.

Too bad for me there aren't software engineering jobs over there though.

 

[Gardener]

Too many evangelical cult members, no es bueno.

 

[soulcougher73]

Not even close IMO. All countries have some problems, but I think the myth of America being #1 was just a slogan. We may be good in some areas, but we are really bad in others. The only area we are totally #1 without question is Militarily, and for me personally that does nothing for me.

 

[WelshBloke]

Theres no such thing as "the best country in the world" as an all encompassing thing.
Different people want different things out of a country.

 

[MtnMan]

Too many evangelical cult members, no es bueno.

This, IMO, is the root cause of why this country sucks. Why women are loosing rights to control their own body, why everyone (except the very rich) is in danger of becoming homeless due to a major health problem. It is the root cause of the racism, bigotry, and just blind hatred that plagues this shithole of a country every fucking day.

 

[HomerJS]

Republicans claim they are concerned their kids are being indoctrinated. If you teach school kids America is the greatest country in the world isn't that indoctrination?

Critical thinking dictates you teach kids the facts about America and let them conclude if America is the greatest country.

 

[HomerJS]

Theres no such thing as "the best country in the world" as an all encompassing thing.
Different people want different things out of a country.

Isn't that something politicians attempt to ingrain into the public?

IMO - That's indoctrination from the right and the left are too scared to publically disagree.

 

[WelshBloke]

Isn't that something politicians attempt to ingrain into the public?

IMO - That's indoctrination from the right and the left are too scared to publically disagree.

I don't know. I think that "we are the greatest" is more of an American obsession. Most other countries start moaning about what's not great if you ask them about their countries.

 

[fskimospy]

I guess it would depend on how you operationalize ‘great’. Every country has good parts and bad parts. For example we are much richer than nearly every European country but we lag in other quality of life ways.

If I had to choose where to be born as a regular person though I would probably still pick America

 

[WelshBloke]

If I had to choose where to be born as a regular person though I would probably still pick America

I think most people in relatively rich Western countries would pick their countries of birth all things being equal.

 

[fskimospy]

I think most people in relatively rich Western countries would pick their countries of birth all things being equal.

Oh I mean specifically because they aren’t equal. For example median household income in the US is much higher than in the UK. The UK has plenty of nice things about it of course but I think I would prefer the US. (Again, as a regular person, not some rich asshole)

 

[WelshBloke]

Oh I mean specifically because they aren’t equal. For example median household income in the US is much higher than in the UK. The UK has plenty of nice things about it of course but I think I would prefer the US. (Again, as a regular person, not some rich asshole)

But someone from the UK might say I'd rather have a slightly lower income and not have to worry about health care costs or a surfit of guns and religion.
Things are coloured by where you are brought up and what you are used to.

 

[fskimospy]

But someone from the UK might say I'd rather have a slightly lower income and not have to worry about health care costs or a surfit of guns and religion.
Things are coloured by where you are brought up and what you are used to.

It’s not a slightly lower income. Household income in the US is roughly 40% higher than in the UK. I agree that people can and do value different things, sure.

I find that the US is a bad place to be poor in but for the middle class it’s quite good.

 

[WelshBloke]

It’s not a slightly lower income. Household income in the US is roughly 40% higher than in the UK. I agree that people can and do value different things, sure.

I find that the US is a bad place to be poor in but for the middle class it’s quite good.

No one's arguing that it's not a good place. My two points were that A) different people prioritise different things depending on where they were brought up, and B) that Americans have a weird obsession with being the greatest which other countries don't have to the same extent.

I'm going to use your posts as vindication of both those points!

 

[fskimospy]

No one's arguing that it's not a good place. My two points were that A) different people prioritise different things depending on where they were brought up, and B) that Americans have a weird obsession with being the greatest which other countries don't have to the same extent.

I'm going to use your posts as vindication of both those points!

Haha I definitely agree Americans have a weird obsession with being the greatest and criticism of America is often met with hostility. Your point that people like where they grew up is well taken though. I remember reading and being shocked that something like 75% of Americans still live in the area where they were born. (Methodology varies)

To me it’s basically that for the middle class America is pretty rich and we have a huge country with a lot of diverse areas so people can usually find a part of it that works for them. Then again I guess as per my first paragraph Americans don’t take much advantage of that.

 

[MtnMan]

It’s not a slightly lower income. Household income in the US is roughly 40% higher than in the UK. I agree that people can and do value different things, sure.

I find that the US is a bad place to be poor in but for the middle class it’s quite good.

But how much of that household income in the US is spent paying for things that people in the UK don't have to pay for, such as health care, child care, etc.? Average health care premiums for a family is north of $20,000 a year, and has huge deductibles and out-of-pocket costs, if you dare to need it. But CEOs can buy some very nice yachts and private jets, so there is that.

It would have to be upper middle class to be quite good. Middle class is meh, hope I don't go bankrupt if I get cancer, or if a child is born with a major health issue. Remember this is a country where you can get fired for a cancer diagnosis (not legal, but it happens), then the medical system turns you over to the collection agency from hell, cause you lived.

Middle class today means both people need to work, and child care costs very quickly reduces them to substance existence, living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Pohemi]

Grand Cayman > USA.

And they don't need tourism to survive either.

Too bad for me there aren't software engineering jobs over there though.

Can't do remote from there?

 

[fskimospy]

But how much of that household income in the US is spent paying for things that people in the UK don't have to pay for, such as health care, child care, etc.? Average health care premiums for a family is north of $20,000 a year, and has huge deductibles and out-of-pocket costs, if you dare to need it. But CEOs can buy some very nice yachts and private jets, so there is that.

It would have to be upper middle class to be quite good. Middle class is meh, hope I don't go bankrupt if I get cancer, or if a child is born with a major health issue. Remember this is a country where you can get fired for a cancer diagnosis (not legal, but it happens), then the medical system turns you over to the collection agency from hell, cause you lived.

Middle class today means both people need to work, and child care costs very quickly reduces them to substance existence, living paycheck to paycheck.

This isn’t after tax income, it’s total income.

Regardless I’m not trying to say the US is perfect, just that given the other options it’s pretty good.

 

[MrSquished]

This isn’t after tax income, it’s total income.

Regardless I’m not trying to say the US is perfect, just that given the other options it’s pretty good.

Yes I don't think it's a bad option either but that's very specific to what part of the US you are born in and live. There are fantastic areas of the US to live that top anywhere in the world but you need to be in them. Overall as a country as a whole, I'd say there are some better ones in Europe.

There's a few countries in Europe I would not have minded being born and raised in and experienced a culture that is less consumerist and where work to live is more the mantra versus live to work.

And some of the areas in the US that are great could all go to shit if the Republicans have their way because they are hell bent on destroying whatever is good about this country, especially those areas.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes I don't think it's a bad option either but that's very specific to what part of the US you are born in and live. There are fantastic areas of the US to live that top anywhere in the world but you need to be in them. Overall as a country as a whole, I'd say there are some better ones in Europe.

There's a few countries in Europe I would not have minded being born and raised in and experienced a culture that is less consumerist and where work to live is more the mantra versus live to work.

And some of the areas in the US that are great could all go to shit if the Republicans have their way because they are hell bent on destroying whatever is good about this country, especially those areas.

I agree that where you are in the US matters a lot, although I think that is primarily because as I said being poor in the US is really bad.

If you’re middle class or above the US is good. If you’re poor, it’s bad.

 

[MrSquished]

I agree that where you are in the US matters a lot, although I think that is primarily because as I said being poor in the US is really bad.

If you’re middle class or above the US is good. If you’re poor, it’s bad.

I think being middle class was fine maybe 20 years ago but this country is squeezing the middle class so hard with right of center policies so that's not the case anymore.

Let's say even if you are okay financially in many red states now if you're a woman or if you're gay You simply don't have basic fundamental rights anymore. On top of that in many of these states education is being decimated with a political agenda, So your kids are simply not going to get as good of an education either. It's not just about being economically secure in these backwards red states now.