America Has More Low-Paying Jobs Than Any Other Developed Country

[Matt1970]

You, I just cannot respond to with your silly ideas cemented into you're brain really to begin with.

I understand, well no, sorta.

 

[MongGrel]

No, Engineer and I are almost on the same page, he's just a little more left than me. It's only the extremes that think all the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of one side or the other, the consumer vs. the 1%. He, like myself are old enough to have watched it unfold before out very eyes. To see the USA and foreign stuff sitting on shelves in stores side by side and see the foreign stuff be much cheaper and in the end win out. And also see the underhanded things businesses have done. Lets not also forget the blame our free trade agreements with countries that absolutely decimate the environment, have horrid work conditions and pay they labor less that $1/hr.

That is at least more lucid for a change.

 

[Matt1970]

Matt and his tired ass talking point that the consumers are to blame for outsourcing, despite the fact that wages have been static for decades, despite the fact that productivity has risen over that same time, despite the fact that taxes on businesses have dropped over that same time. He blames the consumer despite his own hypocritical ass admitting that he can only buy foreign made products to fix his US based customers electronic product problems.

Yep Matt! You are right! It's those damn US consumers who are the issue and their cheap ass ways!

Go fuck yourself

Kiss your mom with that mouth? Once you grow up and see how the world really works you will understand my posting a little more. Like the fact that if you traced the stagnant wages you would see it leads right back to the times we started to run trade deficits. And also that the taxes on businesses dropping have also coincided with taxes on individuals dropping.

 

[Zorkorist]

No, Engineer and I are almost on the same page, he's just a little more left than me. It's only the extremes that think all the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of one side or the other, the consumer vs. the 1%. He, like myself are old enough to have watched it unfold before out very eyes. To see the USA and foreign stuff sitting on shelves in stores side by side and see the foreign stuff be much cheaper and in the end win out. And also see the underhanded things businesses have done. Lets not also forget the blame our free trade agreements with countries that absolutely decimate the environment, have horrid work conditions and pay they labor less that $1/hr.

The difference is that Engineer thinks that more Government will fix the problem.

You recognize that Government IS the problem.

-John

 

[Engineer]

The difference is that Engineer thinks that more Government will fix the problem.

You recognize that Government IS the problem.

-John

Engineer doesn't think that more government will fix the problem be he knows that is what's going to happen (more government) if the problem doesn't fix itself (i.e. if the people at the top don't start the 'trickle down' process on their own, the people at the bottom 99% will rise up, either politically or by force, and take it). Government has tried to fix the problem for years and every solution has led to more going to the top .001% and less to the bottom. At some point, the government will not be able to afford to prop up the bottom 99%+ and all shit will break loose. There is no reason to think that history won't repeat itself here too...

Engineer would much rather have good paying jobs return to this country...ones in which we make stuff....real wealth building, item creating (including skills) jobs. Many of our problems disappear when that happens.

 

[Matt1970]

The difference is that Engineer thinks that more Government will fix the problem.

You recognize that Government IS the problem.

-John

I am not sure he has really suggested that. You might be confusing him with ivwshane or Jhhnn who think it's all business's fault, like one day we all woke up and there was nothing available to buy but foreign stuff. Never mind that you can still choose to this day, like with cars, and foreign is still winning out.

 

[Zorkorist]

I mean what more trickle down do you want?!

We are already 17 Trillion Dollars in debt.

The folks that aren't working, are not working because they get money from the Government Tit.

What more trickle down do you want?!

Do you want everyone to be as poor as everyone else?

-John

 

[Engineer]

I am not sure he has really suggested that. You might be confusing him with ivwshane or Jhhnn who think it's all business's fault, like one day we all woke up and there was nothing available to buy but foreign stuff. Never mind that you can still choose to this day, like with cars, and foreign is still winning out.

Cars at this point are an exception to the rule. I would say that more foreign satellites are (or have) moving here than are leaving to be imported. Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Lexus...just to name a few.

 

[Engineer]

I mean what more trickle down do you want?!

We are already 17 Trillion Dollars in debt.

The folks that aren't working, are not working because they get money from the Government Tit.

What more trickle down do you want?!

Do you want everyone to be as poor as everyone else?

-John

If the people who control the nations wealth don't voluntarily spend money on the lower's (i.e. jobs, etc), the lowers will ask for more and more government....whether you or I or anyone else wants it. Just a fact of what's going to happen. The 17 trillion is just part of government trying to cover the losses that the top have pulled from the bottom (i.e. we have cut taxes and increased credits to try to prop up wage declines for decades. We have went negative in the taxation department and credit department to the tune of 43% don't pay federal income taxes (and many get back more than paying in). That is not sustainable.

As for those not working because of government money, I would say that there are plenty that do indeed suck on the government tit (I know many and they drive me insane). However, the economy is just really shitty for the bottom 90%+. It's interesting that only 26% of those that are unemployed are getting unemployment right now because it has expired for the other 74%. That's the lowest % getting UIC since WWII/

 

[schmuckley]

Well then cite me what law they enacted that effect my life in any significant way?

Do you buy gas,electricity,food?
Here's one "The Ethanol Mandate"
This is something that sucks the life out of every citizen in the US.
http://theweek.com/article/index/252692/why-everybody-hates-the-ethanol-mandate

 

[Matt1970]

I mean what more trickle down do you want?!

We are already 17 Trillion Dollars in debt.

The folks that aren't working, are not working because they get money from the Government Tit.

What more trickle down do you want?!

Do you want everyone to be as poor as everyone else?

-John

We need 2 things. Fisrt, we need honest pricing, and free trade agreements with nations that pay their labor $8/day doesn't do it. Second, we need people educated that every time you buy foreign goods, we lose jobs. That's undeniable. Deficits = job loss.

 

[Matt1970]

Cars at this point are an exception to the rule. I would say that more foreign satellites are (or have) moving here than are leaving to be imported. Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Lexus...just to name a few.

True, but they shouldn't even be here for the moist part. That just for the most part cheap parts made overseas but assembled here. The profita still go overseas.

 

[Zorkorist]

I am against the minimum wage, just to give you a perspective.

Spend money on the lowers?!

Government is 17 Trillion Dollars in debt, spending money on the lowers.
Government makes laws, like minimum wage, REDUCING MY spending on the lowers.

Might I say the "spend money on the lowers" ain't working either.

-John

 

[Engineer]

True, but they shouldn't even be here for the moist part. That just for the most part cheap parts made overseas but assembled here.

It's interesting that Toyota has more domestic content than any other car (or at least they did have a few years ago). I work with the suppliers in providing equipment so I see this on an ongoing basis.

 

[Engineer]

I am against the minimum wage, just to give you a perspective.

Spend money on the lowers?!

Government is 17 Trillion Dollars in debt, spending money on the lowers.
Government makes laws, like minimum wage, REDUCING MY spending on the lowers.

Might I say the "spend money on the lowers" ain't working either.

-John

Again, government trying to fill a void left when the jobs were pulled from the lowers. It will only get worse as the lowers get less. You can bank on it. By the way, big business just loves the government filling that void. Business gets rid of the expensive US labor and still has a consumer thanks to government spending to prop up the lost or lowering wages. And if it all breaks down (2008), just get the government to jump in and hit the reset button (bailouts for that uppers) and off to the races they go again.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh bullshit. How many in the 1% do you know? I know plenty and they are just like everyone else. Yes, they want to make more money, it's what they are good at and regardless of what you have been fed by whatever source you seem to regurgitate it IS good for the economy, but they are not trying to run everyone's lives. There are those who want to be in power but they tend to be politicians.

Contrary to popular belief, the top 1% isn't the financial elite. The .01% is the financial elite, even more so the .001%.

They create organizations like this to help keep you muddled about who's paying for what & the goals of doing so-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9296-7661-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_graphic.html

If you think that everything right wing among the middle class is grass roots, you're probably mistaken. It's astroturf expertly applied by the best propagandists in the business, has been for decades.

 

[Zorkorist]

We need 2 things. Fisrt, we need honest pricing, and free trade agreements with nations that pay their labor $8/day doesn't do it. Second, we need people educated that every time you buy foreign goods, we lose jobs. That's undeniable. Deficits = job loss.

We have a global world. One might think with nationalism, but I think with humanitarianism. (is that an ism?)

I have no problem with an Indian, or a Mexican, or a Korean, making a good living off a product or service he or she provides me.

-John

 

[Matt1970]

Do you buy gas,electricity,food?
Here's one "The Ethanol Mandate"
This is something that sucks the life out of every citizen in the US.
http://theweek.com/article/index/252692/why-everybody-hates-the-ethanol-mandate

Corn farmers are the .001%'ers? That would make NY full of them as there are corn fields all over the place here.

 

[Matt1970]

Contrary to popular belief, the top 1% isn't the financial elite. The .01% is the financial elite, even more so the .001%.

They create organizations like this to help keep you muddled about who's paying for what & the goals of doing so-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9296-7661-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_graphic.html

If you think that everything right wing among the middle class is grass roots, you're probably mistaken. It's astroturf expertly applied by the best propagandists in the business, has been for decades.

Sorry, stopped reading at the usual Kochs.

 

[Zorkorist]

Again, government trying to fill a void left when the jobs were pulled from the lowers. It will only get worse as the lowers get less. You can bank on it. By the way, big business just loves the government filling that void. Business gets rid of the expensive US labor and still has a consumer thanks to government spending to prop up the lost or lowering wages. And if it all breaks down (2008), just get the government to jump in and hit the reset button (bailouts for that uppers) and off to the races they go again.

No, there are no excuses left Engineer.

It's Government that is the problem.

I understand your scare tactic, of it is going to get worse, but it is not my fault.

It is the fault of people that keep electing "more Government." People that keep approving "more spending."

-John

 

[Matt1970]

We have a global world. One might think with nationalism, but I think with humanitarianism. (is that an ism?)

I have no problem with an Indian, or a Mexican, or a Korean, making a good living off a product or service he or she provides me.

-John

It's not that, we have a mentality that 'What difference is my $20 purchase going to make?' And they are right, if they were the only one, but multiply that times tens of millions, day after day, decade after decade. Then factor in free trade agreements with nations that manipulate their currency and pay slave wages.

 

[Zorkorist]

Those are all Government actions and the reason we are where we are today.

In real world economics, each of those issues get sorted, as they happen.

-John

 

[Matt1970]

Again, government trying to fill a void left when the jobs were pulled from the lowers. It will only get worse as the lowers get less. You can bank on it. By the way, big business just loves the government filling that void. Business gets rid of the expensive US labor and still has a consumer thanks to government spending to prop up the lost or lowering wages. And if it all breaks down (2008), just get the government to jump in and hit the reset button (bailouts for that uppers) and off to the races they go again.

But 2008 wasn't a breakdown of government spending to prop up the lost or lowering wages. If that were to truly happen I think we are talking great depression x2.

 

[Engineer]

But 2008 wasn't a breakdown of government spending to prop up the lost or lowering wages. If that were to truly happen I think we are talking great depression x2.

No, I meant a breakdown of the consumer credit line (aka - mortgage fever to the hilt) and the resulting crash in the economy from the products of such activity. The people making all of the money before 2008 on that stuff found themselves in a shithole as the consumer tanked. In stepped the good ole government bailout teams and the rest is history. Just goes to show who the government works for and it's not the masses who vote and think that their vote matters (neither party are really all that different when it's all said and done in that regard).

In other words, government and credit had propped up the consumers for decades of declining wages and when the credit became borked, the government jumped in and bailed out the banks and other corporations and basically said fuck you to the masses.

 

[alcoholbob]

Is that why everything keeps going up in price, because the dollar has gained value?

Just a few months ago you were claiming deflation was bad. Now you are saying it is good?

When prices start to go down, then you can claim the dollar has gained value. Seen the price of food lately? Bought a can of beans, hamburger or bacon lately? The dollar has not gained crap. Every month we lose a little more buying power.

It's because he likes to liken exchange rates with currencies of export economies that depend on the the dollar with the actual buying power of the dollar in terms of raw materials that producers use, which is significantly less than it was pre-recession. Also the usual liberal undefinable terms like "recent years" by which refers to the exchange rate of the dollar at the depths of the recession. The dollar index was as high as 116 in the early 2000s, compared to 84 it used to be nearly 40% higher.