America going back to dark ages - cities removing light poles

[Fear No Evil]

LOL that is so fail. Instead of just leaving the poles there, let's pay people thousands of dollars to rip them out.

Do we have any indication that the CITY took them out and not the power company? I doubt the city owned them and why should the power company leave them in place rotting away when the city won't pay for them?

 

[Doppel]

/geography fail

Last i looked Detroit was a big city in Michican, which is a state of the US.

It may be a shit hole of a city, but it is part of America.

Troll calling the OP a troll. Hypocrisy at its finest right here folks.

Your post is a complete oops.

In case you don't get it, Detroit looks like a future America. You can quote it when you catch on.

You guys really should at least know something about Detroit before making statements like that. It's been dysfunctional for DECADES. Why can't Austin, TX or Raleigh, NC be America's future? Don't answer that, here's the answer: It's not as fun for eternal pessimists who themselves cannot even stay employed to look to, it's better to pretend the future is grim for everyone. Carry on!

 

[airdata]

have they not switched to LED ?

 

[rcpratt]

I work for DTE, so here's a few things I could find.

Company helps Highland Park reduce its street lighting costs. Over the past couple of days, there have been a lot of news stories regarding the removal of street lights in the city of Highland Park.

_____________, Manager, Community Lighting, said that the City of Highland Park has been in arrears on its street lighting bill for a number of years, and that our company has been working with the community and successfully negotiated an agreement that better fits the city’s budget.

“We’re happy that the City of Highland Park will be able to maintain street lighting at a reasonable level,” Henderson said. “While public safety is the responsibility of city government, we’re pleased that we were able to find a way to continue providing street lights as part of the city’s public safety program.”

Under the agreement with the City of Highland Park, our company has installed approximately 200 new street lights at intersections throughout the community. The 200 new street lights, combined with 300 lights from the former system, provide approximately 500 street lights for the residents and businesses of Highland Park. That is consistent with the street lighting levels in communities, such as Livonia, Westland and Allen Park, Henderson said.

The agreement also called for our company to de-energize and remove approximately 1,300 street lights in the city. The agreement has enabled the city to reduce its street lighting bill from almost $70,000 a month to about $15,000 a month – a level that better fits the city’s budget.

DTE Energy provides street lighting service to more than 800 municipal and governmental units in Southeast Michigan.

Effective August 1, 2011, DTE Energy will be upgrading Highland Park’s community street lights with new, energy-efficient lighting.

Key Points

• DTE Energy will be removing older, less efficient streetlights that are prone to long outages, and will be installing new streetlights that will offer the city of Highland Park a lower monthly energy bill and higher reliability.
• These new street lights will be installed on street corners throughout Highland Park.
• The new system will provide more reliable and affordable lighting for the community.
• Residents will notice a reduction in the number of street lights in their neighborhood. The placement and number of street lights was determined by the city.
• Construction will begin on August 1, 2011 and will be completed by October 31, 2011.
• The city of Highland Park may suggest to customers the option of installing private security lighting.

 

[ShawnD1]

Light bulbs can only be turned on / off so often before they expire. I think under your idea they'd be flipping on / off all the time.

Some HID lights are also a bit special. They can only turn on when they are cold. This was demonstrated in one of my engineering classes. A normal red/yellow sodium lamp turns on fine when it's room temperature. Leave it on for a minute while the instructor said some stuff. After running for a minute then being switched off, the sodium lamp would not turn on again.

So basically you need to have them on or off. You can't do on-off-on-off-on-off. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[sactoking]

This saves money and reduces light pollution, sounds like a win-win.

 

[herm0016]

the electric company owns the light poles and the city pays for leasing them and powering them. DTE was just reclaiming what the city did not want to lease anymore.

 

[child of wonder]

So every single level of government is facing huge deficits from the federal, state, county, even city levels.

How is this country supposed to be around in 50 years?

 

[IronWing]

So every single level of government is facing huge deficits from the federal, state, county, even city levels.

How is this country supposed to be around in 50 years?

Raise taxes to cover the cost of the stuff we vote for ourselves?

 

[Yreka]

None of this would need to happen if they let Omni Consumer Products (OCP) run the city.

 

[piasabird]

Dont pay your city taxes then! What services are you receiving for your money? Maybe you should start a petition to get some new lighting and see how much it costs. Maybe the city was getting ripped off for its lighting contract. Buy your own poles and light up the street one house at a time. Contact a contractor.

 

[child of wonder]

Raise taxes to cover the cost of the stuff we vote for ourselves?

That would balance the budget but what about the tens of trillions we owe across every level of government?

 

[ShawnD1]

Raise taxes to cover the cost of the stuff we vote for ourselves?

What's ironic is that raising taxes is the only way you can decrease spending.

"THIS IS HOW MUCH THE SHIT COSTS!?!?!?!?"

 

[IronWing]

What's ironic is that raising taxes is the only way you can decrease spending.

"THIS IS HOW MUCH THE SHIT COSTS!?!?!?!?"

Yep, this is why I've come around to agreeing on the need for a balanced budget amendment. You want bread and circuses? Fine, here's the bill. You want war with El Salvastan? Okie dokie, pony up, not in some far off time, but right here, right now. War would be a lot less popular. We could learn to live without a lot of crap. Other stuff we would agree was worth paying for.

 

[sactoking]

None of this would need to happen if they let Omni Consumer Products (OCP) run the city.

1. Serve the public trust
2. Protect the innocent
3. Uphold the law

 

[ShawnD1]

1. Serve the public trust
2. Protect the innocent
3. Uphold the law

4. Not allowed to arrest or shoot corrupt officials.

He sounds almost exactly like a real cop :awe:

 

[shortylickens]

Yep, this is why I've come around to agreeing on the need for a balanced budget amendment. You want bread and circuses? Fine, here's the bill. You want war with El Salvastan? Okie dokie, pony up, not in some far off time, but right here, right now. War would be a lot less popular. We could learn to live without a lot of crap. Other stuff we would agree was worth paying for.

To be fair the last 3 wars we had werent supported by the general public anyway.
But yeah, if the people had to pay in advance of everything there would be a LOT less in the way of free handouts and the military wouldnt have hundred dollar hammers.

 

[William Gaatjes]

This is what America's cities are destined to look like shortly:

http://scotthaefner.com/features/forgotten/

This is already 500 acres near San Fransisco

The first few minutes remind me of the game half life 2...

 

[dmcowen674]

I work for DTE, so here's a few things I could find.

The thing I find wrong is that an upgrade of existing lights comes at the expense of putting most of the residential community into the dark.

DTE could have made all the lights more energy efficient and the bill would have come down to $15,000 a month without sacrificing public safety.

The citizens as usual get the raw end of the deal.

 

[Rubycon]

Some HID lights are also a bit special. They can only turn on when they are cold. This was demonstrated in one of my engineering classes. A normal red/yellow sodium lamp turns on fine when it's room temperature. Leave it on for a minute while the instructor said some stuff. After running for a minute then being switched off, the sodium lamp would not turn on again.

So basically you need to have them on or off. You can't do on-off-on-off-on-off. It just doesn't work like that.

HPS lamps need minutes for restrike. They make double arc tube lamps for areas subject to frequent power interruptions. Some fixtures also may have an incandescent lamp as backup in case power fails briefly, etc.

The solution is to use high efficacy LED lighting. They are rapidly approaching efficacy of LPS let alone HPS HID lighting. Optical control is quite nice on these and turning them on and off is no problem.

They can even be fitted in smart projectors that can vary the cut off or light pattern for special events, etc.

It does cost money though.

 

[rcpratt]

The thing I find wrong is that an upgrade of existing lights comes at the expense of putting most of the residential community into the dark.

DTE could have made all the lights more energy efficient and the bill would have come down to $15,000 a month without sacrificing public safety.

The citizens as usual get the raw end of the deal.

Any company could do a lot of things, but most are in the business of making money. A city that can't pay their bills isn't in anybody's best interest.

I don't know any more than what I posted, by the way.

 

[Modelworks]

1) For an astronomer like myself, this is kind of exciting. If they replace them in the future, hopefully they do so with directional lighting, which is much more efficient than the usual spherical emitter nonsense.

You would absolutely love it here. Walk outside and it is totally black , can't see your hand in front of your face without a light source. I don't think people that live in cities realize what they are missing when you go to an area with no light sources for miles and look up and can see constellations and the stars actually appearing to twinkle.

 

[dmcowen674]

Any company could do a lot of things, but most are in the business of making money. A city that can't pay their bills isn't in anybody's best interest.

I don't know any more than what I posted, by the way.

I would have to see the cost comparison to complete rip out of poles compared to replacing with an LED bulb.

I would find it hard to believe the bulb costs more than the labor of ripping out the pole.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I would have to see the cost comparison to complete rip out of poles compared to replacing with an LED bulb.

I would find it hard to believe the bulb costs more than the labor of ripping out the pole.

Yeah I am sure you just unscrew the old one, and screw in the new LED bulb. I am sure there is NOTHING else that needs to be done. Its exactly like your home lamp.

Only problem is, they had to spend $5 a gallon on gasoline to go out there and swap them out. And if the poor workers wanted to vinaigrette dressing with their lunch they'd have to fill out all kinds of paperwork. And god forbid if they wanted a bowl of cereal before work it could cost them $5 for the milk as well. Add up all those costs when factoring in your price - And even then you are assuming that the places were the street lights are will even be inhabitable in a couple years.

 

[Rubycon]

Yeah I am sure you just unscrew the old one, and screw in the new LED bulb. I am sure there is NOTHING else that needs to be done. Its exactly like your home lamp.

No it would require replacing the lamp head (fixture).
Pulling the poles out makes it a lot harder to replace them, however.