Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
- 1
- 61
That's the funny thing that some people don't seem to get. The fact that they can post that drivel on an open internet forum without fear of reprisal is proof that their claims of fascism are false. Their own accusations are proof against them.
How ironic...
You associated progressive tax system with Mussolini, as if that means progressive tax system has something to do with fascism.
Which is why I mentioned fire departments, to point out to you that just because a fascist state has some particular government policy, that the policy doesn't necessarily have anything to do with fascism.
and
Oh really? How about we take a closer look at the list you gave us:
Energy companies writing energy bills. Pharma companies writing Medicare reform bills. Sounds like a match to me. Just because the corporations are going the indirect route, doesn't mean that they aren't taking control of decisions.
Growing executive power. Although we haven't gotten there yet, if we continue down this road, we'll get there.
"You're either with us or you're a terrorist." "Speaking out against the government is supporting the terrorists."
I suppose that Iraq doesn't count towards this in your eyes. How about the demonification of Iran to gain support for war against them?
Largest increase in the federal government since FDR.
Gee, you got me on this one [/sarcasm]
Patriot Act, Gitmo, "Free Speech Zones", and warantless wire-tapping. What other freedoms do we need to lose before you'll concede this point?
Frankly, it's time for you to wake up. Although we aren't there yet, if we continue in the direction that GWB is pointing us, we'll get to fascism soon enough.
-red
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,711
- 8
- 81
sigh... look, you seem to be taking this personal. I have not done any research on this and I am not a lawyer nor do I ever care to be. Maybe you should watch the movie to get their exact position and if you have problems with their argument go contact them. I am just asking questions here trying to find out more information about this, and you go take this defensive stance and trying to draw me into an argument.
But anyway, why couldn't the Judicial Branch declare something that the Legislative Branch amends to the constitution is unconsitutional? Isn't that part of the balance of power? Especially when this amendment introduces language which directly contradicts language in the original consitution
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978 = no
but ammended to FISA = USA PATRIOT Act = yes
WTF... where in my previous post do I mention the USA Patriot Act can bypass FISA. I just merely stated that it was an act that works with FISA.
To blame GWB for wire-tapping.. insane.. blaming GWB for FISA.. not possible..if we are talking about FISA of the year 1978
The Patriot Act.. yeah.. GWB signed that 10/26/2001
What in the world are you talking about? He is bypassing the fisa court, which is illegal. The patriot act says nothing about allowing such a thing. So what are you talking about?
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
The legislative branch cannot amend the constitution themselves, it requires far more. See HERE
The judiciairy must uphold what is in the Constitution, they cannot overturn any portion of the Constitution.
If an amendment passes the constitutional requirements linked above, it is by definition "constitutional" and the courts are charged with upholding it. They have NO choice.
No offense, but some "civics' would do you good.
Fern
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,711
- 8
- 81
OK, what about this argument against the 16th amendment's definition if "income" being limited to "in the form of dividends, patronage dividends, and interest from corporate investment." instead of personal wages?
Fern, you will find there are many skills and much knowledge in life that would be good for you. There is only so much time.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,333
- 136
So you're saying that Hitler and Mussolini didn't have elected legislatures?
Yep.
"Old George Orwell got it backward. Big Brother isn't watching. He's singing and dancing. He's pulling rabbits out of a hat. Big Brother's holding your attention every moment you're awake. He's making sure you're always distracted. He's making sure you're fully absorbed... and this being fed, it's worse than being watched. With the world always filling you, no one has to worry about what's in your mind. With everyone's imagination atrophied, no one will ever be a threat to the world. "
-- Chuck Palahniuk
This drivel on an open internet forum that we post without fear of reprisal is an amazing tool of distraction and misinformation, all of which -- because of their subtlety -- are much more powerful propaganda than traditional overt means.
It was one of the main platforms of his ideology and party. I think there is more than an "association" there, which is why I brought it up in the first place. I find it interesting we as a nation have embraced such a policy.
AAjax
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2001
- 3,798
- 0
- 0
Have you watched TV lately? See any real reporters? Funny how all the TV stations air basicly the same story? Without collusion, what are the odds of that.
Also the main part of this film I found interesting was on the sham that is the federal reserve.
To quote from the film "why would we give a private corporation the ability to issue our currancy to us at interest?"
Good point, i thought
AAjax
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2001
- 3,798
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: Vic
So you're saying that Hitler and Mussolini didn't have elected legislatures?
Yep.
"Old George Orwell got it backward. Big Brother isn't watching. He's singing and dancing. He's pulling rabbits out of a hat. Big Brother's holding your attention every moment you're awake. He's making sure you're always distracted. He's making sure you're fully absorbed... and this being fed, it's worse than being watched. With the world always filling you, no one has to worry about what's in your mind. With everyone's imagination atrophied, no one will ever be a threat to the world. "
-- Chuck Palahniuk
This drivel on an open internet forum that we post without fear of reprisal is an amazing tool of distraction and misinformation, all of which -- because of their subtlety -- are much more powerful propaganda than traditional overt means.
Most intelligent post Ive read in awile...
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
I'm familiar with that arguement you link, and others. I'm a tax CPA.
In short, it has brought to the courts (including SCOTUS) many times, and never victorious. The courts are now "sick of hearing it", so to speak. For several years now anyone bringing this type of arguement to the courts has had their case thrown out, been sanctioned and fined for "frivilous arguements" (or whatever they call it) and are starting to get jail time for criminal tax fraud.
A good deal of this countries history is actually founded upon tax concerns. For example, in researching some issues I have had to go back and read comments from the floor of the constitutional convention. While true the founding fathers did not envision any national income tax (up until 1913 the federal government mostly raised taxes in war time - "war taxes"), and in spite of the questionable underpinnings of the current system, peeps with this arguement lose every time.
If the courts held otherwise (that federal income tax was not constitutional etc), the federal government would collapse upon itself. The courts, being part of that very system, will not allow that to happen, IMHO.
Fern
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