AMD's Webcast Phenom II "Deneb"

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Man what a chip for the overclockers.

I personally more interested in Air water 24/7 O/Cs .

Its strange watching this cpu go to 6.3GghZ. Than struggling to get over 4 ghZ stable on air, Should do 4.3-4.5 on water.
 

RaptureMe

Senior member
Jan 18, 2007
552
0
0
I too seen it live and my question too went unanswered. :(
It was kinda funny though how they snickered at the Intel question about Fusion working with C2D or C2Q's at the end saying NO hehe this is only an AMD App. and it would never work on intel hardware..
Makes me think if Intel will follow suit with there own Fusion app.
Either way I am getting ants in my pants waiting for these new Phenom II cpu's to come out.
I think I am down for the 3.0GHz Black Ed. Think they said it was 940??
Would be nice to see a slightly higher multi version black ed on the AM3 socket though.
Maybe a 3.2ghz Black Ed will get realeased for am3??
Anyways if amd keeps this up they should be able to put intel in check and keep the prices down so its a win win for all.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
Originally posted by: Phynaz
Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh
Originally posted by: Idontcare
December 5th, 20008

Lol :) Someone got keyboard happy.

See this :-

http://oktabit.foracamp.gr/fil...nvite_webcast_logo.jpg

"Someone has lack of knowledge !!!"

This is a Video of PhII on 6.3Ghz etc

He was making joke about the date, 20,008.

:thumbsup:

Yep, if you watch the video maybe about 1-2 minutes into it they cut to a screen with the date shown as "December 5th, 20008"...one too many zeroes. I just thought it was a funny typo, of all the things to get wrong on your polished media campaign.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Did I just see Jen-Hsun there?!?

Anyway they did hit 6.3GHz, but you could make out the voltage of the chip. It was at ~1.963V!
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,478
14,434
136
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh
Nemesis 1 i heard that 4.7 would be achievable on water and upto 4.2 on air...

Link?

Well, in that link we saw 4 different boxes on air @ 4 ghz (rounded, 3.94 or something)
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: Markfw900
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh
Nemesis 1 i heard that 4.7 would be achievable on water and upto 4.2 on air...

Link?

Well, in that link we saw 4 different boxes on air @ 4 ghz (rounded, 3.94 or something)


Im guessing there is a world of difference between the voltage needed for 4, and the voltage needed for 4.2. Obviously that may not be the case, I am just going off of previous experience with quads.
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyone know if the ones they're supposedly demoing are the AM2+ or AM3 parts?

All the overclocking demos to date have been done using an AM2+ board, not even with a 790FX, but the lowly 790GX.... the Gigabyte MA79GP-DS4H, which fully supports 140W AM3, and retails for a mere $139 on Newegg. Excellent motherboard by the way.

 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: bradley
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyone know if the ones they're supposedly demoing are the AM2+ or AM3 parts?

All the overclocking demos to date have been done using an AM2+ board, not even with a 790FX, but the lowly 790GX.... the Gigabyte MA79GP-DS4H, which fully supports 140W AM3, and retails for a mere $139 on Newegg. Excellent motherboard by the way.

Same board I have... but that doesn't answer the question. The AM3 parts are supposed to be 95W TDP, the AM2+ ones are supposed to be 125W from what I've been told. I'd be interested simply from the AM2+ standpoint...
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
Originally posted by: bradley
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyone know if the ones they're supposedly demoing are the AM2+ or AM3 parts?

All the overclocking demos to date have been done using an AM2+ board, not even with a 790FX, but the lowly 790GX.... the Gigabyte MA79GP-DS4H, which fully supports 140W AM3, and retails for a mere $139 on Newegg. Excellent motherboard by the way.

I think you mean AM2/AM2+ not AM3.

Sure it supports AM3 if you mean to say AM3 chips can go into AM2+ mobo's and run as if they were an AM2+ chip on a DDR2 mobo.

But my expectation is that most folks are going to see "AM3" and assume you are writing about a DDR3 system (DDR3 AM3 mobo).
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
152
106
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: bradley
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyone know if the ones they're supposedly demoing are the AM2+ or AM3 parts?

All the overclocking demos to date have been done using an AM2+ board, not even with a 790FX, but the lowly 790GX.... the Gigabyte MA79GP-DS4H, which fully supports 140W AM3, and retails for a mere $139 on Newegg. Excellent motherboard by the way.

Same board I have... but that doesn't answer the question. The AM3 parts are supposed to be 95W TDP, the AM2+ ones are supposed to be 125W from what I've been told. I'd be interested simply from the AM2+ standpoint...

The way I understand it (and I may very well be wrong), if you were to use a 95W AM3 cpu in a AM2+ MB, it would run at a higher TDP because the DDR2 Memory controller uses more power than the DDR3 IMC. I don't think an AM3 Ph2 945 would use less power than a AM2+ Ph2 940 when using DDR2 memory. So getting one because the power consumption is lower on a AM2+ board, probably wouldn't work that way.

I am still excited that the AM3 parts will have higher binned parts due to the lower power consumption of the DDR3 IMC. This will allow them to increase the core clockspeed and stay within a reasonable TDP. (Idontcare and I did some basic calculations to estimate this in another thread. We found that based on TDP limitations alone, the clockspeed could ramp up to 4GHz and stay within 125W TDP envelope. Of course there are other limitations that could preclude that from happening.)
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,848
2,051
126
Originally posted by: bradley
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyone know if the ones they're supposedly demoing are the AM2+ or AM3 parts?

All the overclocking demos to date have been done using an AM2+ board, not even with a 790FX, but the lowly 790GX.... the Gigabyte MA79GP-DS4H, which fully supports 140W AM3, and retails for a mere $139 on Newegg. Excellent motherboard by the way.

I'd beg to differ. The BIOS (ran F1 and F2A) was crap...couldn't turn ACC on without having cold boot issues (ie. I couldn't turn on my computer without several resets and prayers to get it booted up) and I tried upping the HTT a bit and the BIOS took a crap and I had to RMA because it wouldn't POST (wth happened to Dual BIOS??!!). BUT when I did OC it did so with minimal voltage adjustments so I think I'll keep that when I get it back.

The ASUS I have right now is a BIT better but not much (have similar cold boot issues but is easier to get working). It takes more voltage to get a lower OC for some reason with the same chip and the NB cooling is worse than the Gigabyte. The one thing I like about the ASUS board is that I can OC and Cool and Quiet will still work whereas on the Gigabyte it didn't work.

I'm sure 790GX boards will get better once there's some decent OCing chips out which will warrant the makers to do a better job with the BIOSes.
 

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
1,309
1
81
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: AdamK47
Anyone know how to make a 24/7 LN2 cooling setup?

Drop your computer into Neptune? http://www.solarviews.com/eng/neptune.htm

Or are you one of those picky consumers who wants a terrestial-based solution? :laugh:

That should be an option under Newegg Power Search in the Heatsinks & Fans section.
A little checkbox for TBS (Terrestrial-based solution) ;)
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: bradley
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyone know if the ones they're supposedly demoing are the AM2+ or AM3 parts?

All the overclocking demos to date have been done using an AM2+ board, not even with a 790FX, but the lowly 790GX.... the Gigabyte MA79GP-DS4H, which fully supports 140W AM3, and retails for a mere $139 on Newegg. Excellent motherboard by the way.

I'd beg to differ. The BIOS (ran F1 and F2A) was crap...couldn't turn ACC on without having cold boot issues (ie. I couldn't turn on my computer without several resets and prayers to get it booted up) and I tried upping the HTT a bit and the BIOS took a crap and I had to RMA because it wouldn't POST (wth happened to Dual BIOS??!!). BUT when I did OC it did so with minimal voltage adjustments so I think I'll keep that when I get it back.

The ASUS I have right now is a BIT better but not much (have similar cold boot issues but is easier to get working). It takes more voltage to get a lower OC for some reason with the same chip and the NB cooling is worse than the Gigabyte. The one thing I like about the ASUS board is that I can OC and Cool and Quiet will still work whereas on the Gigabyte it didn't work.

I'm sure 790GX boards will get better once there's some decent OCing chips out which will warrant the makers to do a better job with the BIOSes.

To each their own - I've only had one problem with my board and that was with the video drivers. Other than that, rock solid stable now with F2A.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,582
10,785
136
Originally posted by: AdamK47
Anyone know how to make a 24/7 LN2 cooling setup?

This might seem like a throw-away comment but I've given more thought to this question than a sane, rational individual should.

The simple answer is: yes. If you think about it, LN2 cooling is nothing more than phase change cooling, even when it's just a guy pouring some of it into a copper pot + insulation + anti-condensation grease mounted on a CPU. LN2 is going to be at its boiling point when exposed to room-temperature conditions, so most (if not all) of the heat it absorbs will go towards change-of-phase from LN2 to gaseous N2, with the gas itself absorbing very little heat post-change-of-phase due to its comparatively lower density and its tendency to drift away from the contact surface.

So, it's phase change cooling.

They already make double and triple-stage cascade phase change coolers out there that can hit temperatures as low as ~-130C (~143K). Liquid Nitrogen can exist at temperatures as high as ~-196C (~77K), so it is somewhat reasonable to conclude that with more stages, a lot more power, a lot more noise, and much bulkier equipment, that cascade phase change coolers could get down to that temperature range which would effectively be 24/7 LN2 cooling. Whether or not that would be the most efficient or effective way to go about things is unclear.

Another option would be to do what some administrators of large, hot computers have done by keeping a huge reservoir if LN2 and simply dripping it out onto hot computer surfaces (CPU, GPU, PWMs, RAM, etc) as needed. As long as the reservoir is well-constructed and there is sufficient ventilation, there should be no risk. The downside is that you'd need a huge tank of LN2 in your house, and you'd need to refill it every so often which would require handling several dewars and might or might not require hazardous material permits that average citizens can not easily obtain. Even if it were legal to purchase and use such a large quantity of LN2, it would probably raise some eyebrows in the wrong places and otherwise be a big pain in the arse. Anybody hardcore enough to want to use LN2 to cool any part or all parts of their system will probably be running a machine chewing up 1kw or more in power which would require quite a bit of LN2 for cooling, at least by the standards of a home user. The main advantage to this approach would be that industrial production of LN2 is presumably more efficient than small-scale produciton of LN2 utilizing a device mounted to your PC. At best, I believe the industrial producers operate refrigeration facilities capable of 50% carnot efficiency. You could probably not match that at home. After absorbing the cost of purchasing and rigging up your own reservoir, your own dewars, and locating a supplier willing to sell to you (plus applicable permits/licenses where required), the overall cost per litre of LN2 would be lower by just snapping it up from industrial suppliers. A nice supplier might even let you ferry the stuff to your reservoirs in borrowed dewars at no extra cost. Of course, you'd have to take care not to spill it and then succumb to the resulting gas . . .

Anyway, 24/7 LN2 cooling for any or all parts of the system requiring cooling would be very interesting and potentially worthwhile for the right power-user, but it would be eccentric and, more likely than not, outrageously expensive. Due to the sheer inefficiency of LN2 cooling (at least when compared to air and water cooling), the costs involved would shoot up very quickly as the overall system power draw increased. LN2 cooling will become much more feasible, and potentially necessary, as overall power draw on computers decreases from process improvements and other technological breakthroughs. For example, there has been a discussion recently about superconducting transistors. If they could ever get superconducting transistors to work at temperatures of 77K or higher, LN2 cooling would produce amazing opportunities. The power draw from such transistors would likely be very low, so the overall power cost of chilling processors based on such transistors might be correspondingly low, potentially even within the reach of the average home user. Of course, that's just taking "normal" operation of such a theoretical CPU into account; most of us want to use LN2 to make processors run far out-of-spec. Having off-the-shelf technology with amazing capabilities that required LN2 might be better, but it would be a lot less exciting than a heavily-overclocked Phenom II, even though cooling a Phenom II at 6ghz+ with LN2 24/7 would be a lot less practical.

edit: According to at least this site, the US Department of Transportation classifies LN2 as a hazardous material except when shipped in a dry shipper. So, when transporting standard dewars, you'd need training and certification. Since most (if not all) dry shippers seem to be designed to transport something other than LN2 (and just use LN2 to keep the contents cold), it would likely be impractical to move large quantities of LN2 utilizing dry shippers. I guess you could get around most of that trouble by having your LN2 delivered, but then costs go up.