AMD's GPU Q3 2012 marketshare - 14% declines across the board to NVIDIA

[AnandThenMan]

retracted

 

[SirPauly]

What's so interesting about it? Are you Skynet?

 

[AnandThenMan]

Am I taking over the world?

 

[SirPauly]

What was so interesting about sharing something I just found out in the two forums I frequent!?

Evidence of a potential shilling --- why not offer these threads I started with over 250,000 views and 130, 000 views

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33932576

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33932578

Sharing of information -- without the petty personal attacks and silly accusations.

 

[thilanliyan]

Interesting

Let's not go down that path eh? Unless you want the thread locked?

 

[ocre]

I'm not sure if you're here to unsuccessfully troll or just upset that you can't defend nvidia, but in either case have fun crying over my opinion.

upset i cannot defend nvidia? What? Are you aware of the actual OP, the subject matter of this thread? Do you really think nvidia needs to be defended here? WOW! Your pretty quick to try to put people in a corner but in this thread its a total fail.

Anyhow i think you totally missed Railven's POV. Utterly and completely. Its really not something you would demand links to prove but whatever. As far as accusing me of trolling, its just a cheap-shot.

If you come out of the gate swinging then its awfully hard to have any real exchange of ideas. I think if you give it a tiny bit of effort and possibly some time, you probably can see where Rail was going with his statements. This is really your lacking because everything you posted in defense really doesnt make a lot of sense to the initial post. Its like your completely not on the same page.

Lets try another angle. An analogy of some sort. If railven is talking about security feature for customers like an airbag, your point is "well how many people are actually gonna wreck?". I dont think you get it at all. Well his POV relates to the actual OP. it is am attempt at reasoning the deeper questions like how AMD lost so much marketshare to nvidia while having a compelling line up with better pricing.

As for the PhysX feature, in his POV it doesnt matter how many people use it or how many games have it. Your grossly misdirecting. He is saying it is the added sense of security customers may have just knowing they have the feature.... even if they never get to use it because there arent many games. Even if their card is too weak to really enjoy a game with GPU physX, he thinks that it still could contribute to the unknowing consumers' decisions. Of course you arent willing to admit it could, but then again I am not sure your trying to participate in this at all. Its logical attempts of explanation on how AMD lost so much market share to nvidia when they have such a great GPU hand (at an even better price). This ultimately is what led into Railven's ideas on the matter. it is something worth considering, whether you do or do not.

 

[NIGELG]

What was so interesting about sharing something I just found out in the two forums I frequent!?

Evidence of a potential shilling --- why not offer these threads I started with over 250,000 views and 130, 000 views

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33932576

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33932578

Sharing of information -- without the petty personal attacks and silly accusations.

But you asked him if he was Skynet....

If you unsticky those threads at Rage 3d they would fall off the front page especially the PhysX thread.

 

[SirPauly]

I did -- posting style is similar!

In any case, it is good to see a bundle deal from nVidia for gamers, too. Now, both AMD and nVidia gamers have nice bundles -- great stuff for gamers over-all.

 

[3DVagabond]

Maybe AMD is simply trying to do too much. They have mobile, APUs, GPUs, CPUs, chipsets etc. So what do you do? Dump the APUs and put those resources into ultra mobile? Forget about high performance CPUs since it looks like you are never going to beat Intel due to manufacturing superiority?

There aren't many companies out there with such a broad range of computing products, juggling all of them takes resources, resources that AMD doesn't have. Intel has successfully squeezed AMD out of the most profitable CPU spaces, so either AMD finds a way to get back some of that revenue pie, or simply stops making x86 products.

I read an article that said 79% (if I remember correctly) of their CPU sales were APU's. It's a very large part of their overall marketshare.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I read an article that said 79% (if I remember correctly) of their CPU sales were APU's. It's a very large part of their overall marketshare.

But are they making money selling them? Am not surprised at that product mix, no one is buying their performance CPUs.

 

[3DVagabond]

But are they making money selling them? Am not surprised at that product mix, no one is buying their performance CPUs.

Well, I don't see them opting out of the CPU business. If they dropped APU's then they might as well just quit CPU's all together.

As far as their Desktop/performance CPU's, it seems if they could solve their latency issues they'd be "competitive".

 

[raghu78]

Desire competition based on value to the consumer. With nVidia's strong competition offered reduced AMD pricing and impressive bundles -- and in turn -- nVidia is slowly dropping pricing and offering Borderlands 2 and Assassin's Creed 3 for certain sku's at NewEgg.

OMG how can that happen How can Nvidia cut prices and bundle excellent games. they don't need to because they are the dominant brand with better marketing, exclusive features like PhysX and better drivers.

some of these people who religiously worship Nvidia should be able to explain why prices are coming down now. Actually the retailers have started cutting prices because they see clearly they can't move Nvidia product stock when AMD HD 7970 beats Nvidia GTX 680 in performance, price and price performance.

People who want AMD to go out of business and there have been quite a few who have expressed it in this forum must just think for a second. How much do these people see price shifts on MS Windows. zero. Thats what would happen with Nvidia products. prices will be higher. the pace and extent of innovation will also fall without any competition.

Competition is always beneficial to the market and to the consumers. :thumbsup:

 

[Keysplayr]

OMG how can that happen How can Nvidia cut prices and bundle excellent games. they don't need to because they are the dominant brand with better marketing, exclusive features like PhysX and better drivers.

some of these people who religiously worship Nvidia should be able to explain why prices are coming down now. Actually the retailers have started cutting prices because they see clearly they can't move Nvidia product stock when AMD HD 7970 beats Nvidia GTX 680 in performance, price and price performance.

People who want AMD to go out of business and there have been quite a few who have expressed it in this forum must just think for a second. How much do these people see price shifts on MS Windows. zero. Thats what would happen with Nvidia products. prices will be higher. the pace and extent of innovation will also fall without any competition.

Competition is always beneficial to the market and to the consumers. :thumbsup:

Really dude, you need to respect other peoples opinions and preferences if you wish others to respect yours. Some people, like myself, feel Nvidia is far and away the better product (both hardware and software) and have for a long long time. You might feel the same way about AMD/ATI. Although each of us has no idea HOW the other can feel that way, we each need to respect it.

And as for people "wanting" AMD to go out of business? Who really does?
I don't. The only reason I would want that would be in the form of a sale to a company who CAN manage AMD or whatever they will call it. A management team who will get the talent to create better CPUs and a better software backbone for their hardware across the board.
A lot to ask I know, but one can ponder. If Nvidia and AMD were able to merge years ago and JHH at the helm? Holy Hell.

 

[raghu78]

Really dude, you need to respect other peoples opinions and preferences if you wish others to respect yours. Some people, like myself, feel Nvidia is far and away the better product (both hardware and software) and have for a long long time. You might feel the same way about AMD/ATI. Although each of us has no idea HOW the other can feel that way, we each need to respect it.

And as for people "wanting" AMD to go out of business? Who really does?
I don't. The only reason I would want that would be in the form of a sale to a company who CAN manage AMD or whatever they will call it. A management team who will get the talent to create better CPUs and a better software backbone for their hardware across the board.
A lot to ask I know, but one can ponder. If Nvidia and AMD were able to merge years ago and JHH at the helm? Holy Hell.

I am saying that both these competitors should do good in terms of revenue and profits. Actually AMD's biggest problem is not their GPU division. Its their CPU division. The lack of a strong CPU architecture at the high end is hurting the company badly. The GPU division is actually doing ok. Agreed they need to improve their software especially in the notebook market and their marketing but even with one of the worst quarters ever with only 1/3 of the discrete GPU market their GPU division is profitable. When you have a good product market share swings can happen quite fast. the entire HD 7000 series right now is very good from performance and price/perf point of view. so going forward AMD's GPU division will be ok. But its their CPU division which is the main concern and thats where the company is losing money and they should stop the bleeding.

 

[OCGuy]

AMD is almost done as it stands now. It will be interesting to see what happens to the true believers when AMD is either bought out or broken up via the bankruptsy courts.

I have no reason to not like AMD other than their stagnant growth on the CPU side, leading Intel to slow down on new fabs and new tech.

Their GPUs have given nV a run for their money since 4XXX, but that doesn't seem to be cutting it.

 

[SirPauly]

OMG how can that happen How can Nvidia cut prices and bundle excellent games. they don't need to because they are the dominant brand with better marketing, exclusive features like PhysX and better drivers.

Imho,

Because AMD is strong competition, has strengths, and the bundle from AMD was an eye-opener and very welcomed.

The market is dynamic and ever changing!

What is important to me is the pursuit of innovation and improved gaming experiences for PC gamers and without strong competition, personally fear, uneasy and troubled this may slow down.

 

[thilanliyan]

better product (both hardware and software)

Can you quantify that?...the "better hardware" bit I mean. Rollo said something similar...he said "nVidia cards felt better in the hand" lol when I asked him to quantify that. Please tell me you have a better reason than that?

I would argue that going by some of the latest nV hardware (GTX 590 failures, lack of voltage control on 6xx cards), AMD actually has better and more robust hardware. And lets not forget bumpgate which affected not only laptops, but discrete cards as well from what I remember.

 

[f1sherman]

I am saying that both these competitors should do good in terms of revenue and profits. Actually AMD's biggest problem is not their GPU division.

Of course CPU is main problem.

But when entire AMD Graphics Division(FirePro included) makes half the revenue and 10 times less operating profit, then what Nvidia makes with GeForce alone (Quadro and Tesla excluded!), I'd say that's a pretty big problem.

 

[Silverforce11]

Can you quantify that?...the "better hardware" bit I mean. Rollo said something similar...he said "nVidia cards felt better in the hand" lol when I asked him to quantify that. Please tell me you have a better reason than that?

I would argue that going by some of the latest nV hardware (GTX 590 failures, lack of voltage control on 6xx cards), AMD actually has better and more robust hardware. And lets not forget bumpgate which affected not only laptops, but discrete cards as well from what I remember.

The point is a lot of buyers out there don't read reviews, especially not forums, and many of them feel this way, to them, NV is just superior. Just like Intel is superior in CPUs, even through the dominating Athlon days where AMD raped Intel in performance, people still bought Intel exclusively.

The fact that AMD is managing 35-40% marketshare in discrete is pretty damn impressive considering the entrenched "feelings and beliefs" out there.

 

[Silverforce11]

Of course CPU is main problem.

But when entire AMD Graphics Division(FirePro included) makes half the revenue and 10 times less operating profit, then what Nvidia makes with GeForce alone (Quadro and Tesla excluded!), I'd say that's a pretty big problem.

I would like to see PC discrete revenue and profit for NV vs AMD (is there such an official figure?).. somehow i don't feel its that lopsided. NV makes heaps with their mobile gpus, which from reading the quarterly reports, is lumped with consumer revenue.

 

[f1sherman]

Off the top of my head 18M vs 200M operating income in the Q3

 

[nemesismk2]

Predictable.

Can't imagine how much you'll laugh if AMD goes out of business.

I wouldn't be laughing because nvidia are already expensive compared to amd so imagine the price increases if amd did go out of business. doesn't bare thinking about

 

[nemesismk2]

The fact that AMD is managing 35-40% marketshare in discrete is pretty damn impressive considering the entrenched "feelings and beliefs" out there.

yep that is impressive

 

[thilanliyan]

The point is a lot of buyers out there don't read reviews, especially not forums, and many of them feel this way, to them, NV is just superior.

Well Keysplayr is not just an "average" buyer is he? He said he feels nVidia's hardware is better. I would just like to know his reasoning for making that statement as I feel it is not entirely correct.

 

[NIGELG]

Well Keysplayr is not just an "average" buyer is he? He said he feels nVidia's hardware is better. I would just like to know his reasoning for making that statement as I feel it is not entirely correct.

If he doesn't pay for his cards then of course he will feel that way.Paying 500 bucks vs paying zero bucks can make one feel that way.

Free stuff rules but usually you have to tow the company line for indulging in or accepting such free stuff.

I'm glad i can afford my own hardware so I'm not tied to any manufacturer's teat.