AMD's CPU Road Map: DDR2 in '06, DDR3 in '07

imported_Ged

Member
Mar 24, 2005
135
0
0
First, the Linkage.

Main Point of this Rant in BOLD down near the bottom for those who aren't bored enough to read this whole post :cookie:

I've been using the same computer for over 6 years now. I built it for around $800 plus $350 for the 4+ year old 17 inch LCD display. I consider this to be a pretty good run and I've had to sacrifice upgrading in favor of saving up for a new uber machine. I was about ready to purchase a new computer when I started paying attention to the computer hardware market again in order to figure out what I wanted to buy.

I went from a strong Intel supporter and someone who only used AMD to build a cheaper system for a couple friends to someone who now knows that AMD is just as good as and arguably better than Intel currently (not trying to start AMD vs. Intel debate, that's just how I see it. Intel still has impressive technology [see Pentium M], they've just screwed up their desktop and ws/server CPUs).

I decided it would be wise to save my money and invest in another computer, which I would use for a long time -- such as the one I am currently using to post here. I saw that 64-bit x86 CPUs were coming out and I thought it would also be wise to wait for Dual-core or Multi-core CPUs to come out before I purchased my next machine. This would let me have enough processing power and 64-bit support in case the industry headed there.

I really thought the time was now. AMD's Opteron 275s coupled with Tyan's Nforce4 Pro. chipset based workstation boards which supports NVIDIA SLI is a heck of a machine.

So why not just break down and buy that if I have the money?

AMD's roadmaps (Xbit link at the top) shows that AMD will move to DDR2 for 2006 and then DDR3 for 2007. I can't see purchasing a DDR based machine now knowing that DDR2 will become the standard next year and soon will become more expensive as the memory manufacturers phase out DDR in favor of DDR2 and DDR3. Of course, this all means that AMD will be changing from DDR memory controllers, to DDR2 memory controllers, and finally to DDR3 controllers by 2007, which screams lots of new sockets and new motherboards -- assuming one wants to keep an upgrade path.

I've gone from believing 2005 would be the time to finally take the plunge to now wanting to wait for 2007 to see the offerings from both Intel and AMD supporting DDR3 memory. Early 1999 to 2007 is a LONG time to wait to upgrade.

At this point I might actually buy a cheap machine and wait to see where everything settles. DDR to DDR2 to DDR3 in 2 years is a lot of change. I'm also going to wait on buying the two Dell 2405fpws because if I do wait for 2007 there will probably be newer and better technology available at the same price anyway.

AMD's DDR2 platform sounds dead before it arives. Who's going to want to buy a DDR2 based machine that will only have an upgrade path for 1 year? (assuming that they will change to a new Socket for DDR3 and that you will need a new motherboard that supports DDR3 DIMMs)

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Hope no one else is having the same delima that I am.
 

Continuity27

Senior member
May 26, 2005
516
0
0
And if you wait 3 years you can say the same thing, and 5 years, and 10 years, etc. You know how fast the industry moves, it doesn't mean you have to buy something at every turn. Buy what you feel is sufficient for YOU. Future proofing rarely ever pans out anyways. I do find it odd that they don't just wait for DDR3 and skip DDR2 altogether, but you or I don't have to buy those.
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
4,386
0
0
1 year isnt that short, and besides, nothing comes on schedule. ive heard that the ddr3 platform might not be available until near 2008
 

bersl2

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2004
1,617
0
0
Dupe (sorta---same link)

Solution: get a system now, get extra DDR1, completely skip DDR2, count on this machine lasting for at least 2-3 years, get DDR3-compatable parts on next upgrade. Problem solved.
 

imported_Ged

Member
Mar 24, 2005
135
0
0
Originally posted by: theman
1 year isnt that short, and besides, nothing comes on schedule. ive heard that the ddr3 platform might not be available until near 2008


That's true, but AMD seems to think DDR3 will be available for 2007. Maybe late 2007?

Originally posted by: Continuity27
And if you wait 3 years you can say the same thing, and 5 years, and 10 years, etc. You know how fast the industry moves, it doesn't mean you have to buy something at every turn. Buy what you feel is sufficient for YOU. Future proofing rarely ever pans out anyways. I do find it odd that they don't just wait for DDR3 and skip DDR2 altogether, but you or I don't have to buy those.

I'm not really trying to "future proof" -- mainly because that's impossible, I would if I could -- but I do like to stretch my computer dollar out over as long of a period as I can. I can't afford to spend a great deal on a computer every year, so I try to make decisions that will prolong the life of the computer I do end up buying. Upgrading CPU or maybe GPU each year is something that I would like to do, but I can't do that if AMD switches to DDR3 so quickly after DDR2.

I totally agree with your view about it being odd that AMD didn't just wait for DDR3.

At this point I wish that I had jumped in sooner rather than waiting all this time.
 

imported_Ged

Member
Mar 24, 2005
135
0
0
Originally posted by: bersl2
Dupe (sorta---same link)

Solution: get a system now, get extra DDR1, completely skip DDR2, count on this machine lasting for at least 2-3 years, get DDR3-compatable parts on next upgrade. Problem solved.


Ya, I figured there might have been a thread like this before, but I couldn't find it.

 

Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
677
0
0
I think people are making much adeu about nothing. As far as I know DDR2 and 3 are the same thing. The only difference is the voltage and timings. Afaik it will not require a socket change
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Infineon to sample DDR3 in late 2006

In addition to micro-architectural advantages DDR2 memory brings over the original DDR memory, such as, On-Die Termination (ODT) as well as larger 4-bit prefetch, additive latency, and enhanced registers, the DDR3 features self-driver calibration and data synchronization.

Samsung quoted market research firm IDC as saying that the first DDR3 DRAMs will be sold in 2006 and that the DDR3 will represent 65% of the entire DRAM market in 2009.
There will probably be DDR2 supporting AMD chipset, motherboard and processor setups for a while after DDR3 processors are announced/released.
 

sangyup81

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2005
1,082
1
81
Just because something is available doesn't mean you have to have it. Your ego may suffer if you have DDR while DDR2 is out but big deal.

Dude, in 2006 they can't offer DDR3 and the memory makers will sell less DDR. Don't blame AMD. And who knows, by 2006 they'll be talking about DDR4. Just worry about the here and now and forget about the long-term future. In a year or whatever, if you are in need of a computer then get DDR2. Who in their right mind tries to upgrade on a mobo you had for more than a year anymore? I mean haven't you seen these guys posting here trying to upgrade their Slot 1? It's totally the wrong approach and the mentality behind complaining about AMD's road map is just the same. This is how it's going to be. Accept it.
 

ryanv12

Senior member
May 4, 2005
920
0
0
Well, I'm going to buy a dual core now and get 2x1GB DDR modules and I hope to skip DDR2 entirely. I usually make CPU/memory changes every 2 years or so, but spend a lot of money and do the graphics card every 1-2 years depending on what games I'm interested in at the time. This means that in 2, or even 2.5 years time, DDR3 should be around and available for me to buy a new quad core athalon or something to that effect. I'm hoping that my processor lasts a little longer because I may need to budget a PPU into my upgrade cycle at some point :p
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,303
4
81
We've been lucky the last few years.
My first PC had SD-RAM, & ever since then, all the RAM i've bought has been DDR400, which works for everything :)

I'm sure DDR3 will take a few years to take off, so i doubt it'd be entirely possible to hold off till that long.

It still somewhat remains to be seen.
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
4,386
0
0
Originally posted by: sangyup81
Just because something is available doesn't mean you have to have it. Your ego may suffer if you have DDR while DDR2 is out but big deal.

umm, most people at the forums have ddr when ddr2 is out. it certainly isnt hurting my ego.
 

bob661

Senior member
Oct 20, 2004
425
0
0
Solution: get a system now, get extra DDR1, completely skip DDR2, count on this machine lasting for at least 2-3 years, get DDR3-compatable parts on next upgrade. Problem solved.

I'll probably skip DDR2 and just get a dual core and a new video card (or two).

 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
So what would you have AMD do? Not update to the latest memory standard? Or make their own memory socket just so you can have a nice cozy upgrade path for the next 5 years? No offense, but stop complaining already. No one is forcing you to upgrade or use anything. Go with what you think is the best value and the best long term investement. AMD has given people the best upgrade path in the last few years.

Being able to upgrade to dual core without changing another single component is amazing.

edit: BTW what makes you think just because DDR3 comes out that DDR2 won't be available anymore? Hell you can still buy regular SDRAM no problem.
 

HDTVMan

Banned
Apr 28, 2005
1,534
0
0
Originally posted by: bersl2
Dupe (sorta---same link)

Solution: get a system now, get extra DDR1, completely skip DDR2, count on this machine lasting for at least 2-3 years, get DDR3-compatable parts on next upgrade. Problem solved.

AGREED!
 

porkster

Member
Mar 31, 2004
141
0
0
That's the point Intel has the technology now. DDR2 now, PCIe now, BTX now, SATAII now, etc..

If you buy a i955x based chipset motherboard you will have no worries using future items for the next few years. Intel looks to be the better CPU design for the coming years too.

.
 

ssvegeta1010

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2004
2,192
0
0
Originally posted by: porkster
That's the point Intel has the technology now. DDR2 now, PCIe now, BTX now, SATAII now, etc..

If you buy a i955x based chipset motherboard you will have no worries using future items for the next few years. Intel looks to be the better CPU design for the coming years too.

.

Porkster- What part of Skt. 939 AMD doesnt have PCIe? NForce 3 Ultra and Nforce 4, among many other chipsets do. And they have been available for a while.

Also, besides OEM systems like Dell, how many BTX systems have you seen?
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Ya sure intel has ddr2 now. But what advantages does ddr2 give AMD? Very few. Thats why they have been slow to make the change.
Ya, also, intel is the biggest chipset maker. That that into account when you look at the 955. Will intel will not allow you to use next years processors on this years mobos. They demonstrated this with many of their processors. For example, with socket 478, you can't just put any socket 478 cpu on a 478 mobo. The cpu needs to match too. This is way different for AMD 64. If you have a socket 754 mobo, you can put any socket 754 processor on it.
 

porkster

Member
Mar 31, 2004
141
0
0
Originally posted by: Hacp
Ya sure intel has ddr2 now. But what advantages does ddr2 give AMD? Very few. Thats why they have been slow to make the change.

Isn't it smart to invest into future items?

Like in a years time if the said person upgrade his ddr2 to a faster freq or something, then his old memory is still a valid sale or reuse in another modern board. DDR1 will have little to no reuse value soon.

So invest in the future and buy Intel.

.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
much adeu about nothing.

Exactly.. DDR DDR2 DDR3 won't make a hill of beans difference to overclcokers who know which DDR ram to buy right now.

Word is 5% gain in the benchmarks for highend DDR2 and other 5% for DDR3, which is all whipped out with uber DDR ram like UTT or BH-5 clocking 250-270Mhz at extremly low latency (eg 2-2-2 & 1T)

 

AdOgG0911

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2002
22
0
0
Using your logic you will never be able to upgrade. In 2007 when you think you will be safe with the DDR3 boards they will announce something like in Q4 2008 they will release processors with 8 cores and use DDR4 memory with a new cpu socket. So again you will have to wait because something new is comming out.

You just have to buy when you need an upgrade and realize that even if you buy the latest and greatest then you will not have the latest and greatest anymore in a few months time.

I've found that if i build a mid priced computer that it is still good enough for 95% of what I do for around 3 years. If you built an X2 system based on DDR memory today in 3 years that computer will still be fine for most of what you do. Who cares if you don't have the newest hardware or the highest benchmark scores if the pc still does what you want it to.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Originally posted by: porkster
That's the point Intel has the technology now. DDR2 now, PCIe now, BTX now, SATAII now, etc..
AMD has PCI-E and SATA-II. DDR2 will happen in the future when it's needed, and I have no problems with that. BTX simply isn't needed, and besides, where can you buy a BTX board worth having right now? (yeah, thought so...)
If you buy a i955x based chipset motherboard you will have no worries using future items for the next few years. Intel looks to be the better CPU design for the coming years too.
Sure, Intel has a great track record in this regard also... :roll:
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
11,460
0
76
Dude, you will WAIT forEVER..

Buy an X2 (4400+) Overclock to 2.6ghz

Get yourself a gig or 2 of some PC3200

Wait another 5 days for the G70, or grab a x800xl or 6600GT to hold you over till for a bit...
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,654
1,847
136
Here's my upgrade path that I'm taking. Whole new system, monitor not included, I spent around $1100-1200 for it, forget exactly and who really cares. It's a nice system and certainly within the top 90 percentile (especially after overclock).

Down the line I plan to get an X2 dual core CPU. This should take care of any needed performance since CPU design seems to mostly be going to multiple cpu processing rather than speed bumps for the next few years. The only other major upgrade I plan to do at the time is upgrade the video card. I plan on waiting for the speed bump iteration after this next generation of video cards come out before upgrading.

This should be in a little over a year, I'll probably upgrade my CPU then at the same time. Figure $400 for the video card and $250-350 for the CPU. Pretty much everything in my system is re-useable. Considering upgrading my RAM to 2x1GB of RAM while it's cheap though.