AMD's Cayman - HD 6900 series info delayed till week of Dec 13th

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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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Although, I agree with what has already been said: if it was going to be faster, AMD would have said so. They basically said it would be the better value, which is probably true.

Value only goes so far. People willing to drop $500 (or $1000+ for SLI) don't really care about pinching pennies in the first place.

This is starting to look like the sequel to GTX280 vs. HD4870, only with a smaller difference in performance and price.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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I dunno, but you've done your share of talking off-topic in threads too. Digressions happen. There is no need to label him talking about tangential stuff. A 6970 release today would definitely be on-topic in this thread! :D

Off topic? Na, I wasn't saying that.

Excuses is what I was implying. How much market share, profit the high end has, has nothing to do with the delay and is just an excuse to downplay the importance of the delay. See my point?

He's saying there not many people buying in that segment of the market so the delay dosen't matter.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
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There isn't any shortage of those chips. AMD is using the time to make 69xx faster than it would have been before seeing GTX580. Simple. The chip shortage is IMHO, absolute BS.
You are purely speculating. Unless you know what the current performance is of Cayman, and that performance is something AMD wants to address and tweak, you're just taking stabs in the dark.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
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Value only goes so far. People willing to drop $500 (or $1000+ for SLI) don't really care about pinching pennies in the first place.

I've already disagreed with you on this in another thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30747631&postcount=56

I'm in the market for either dual GTX 580s or dual 6970s, and I am price sensitive. It will most likely be the GTX 580s this time simply because I still have a step up with EVGA on one of the my GTX 470s. Basically, financial reasons. Right now, I'm having a hard time selling a GTX 470 on ebay, so I'll jump on the chance to get full value on a step-up for the other one. Although, I'm stuck getting anything until either the one card sells or the step up queue moves along, so yeah price/money matter.

Funny that you mention 'penny pinching' too because it's been more than once that I've cashed out a bunch of change at CoinStar to buy a video card. :)
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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My personal opinion that they expected to beat nVidia without much of a fight. However, the 580 threw a wrench with the release. I highly suspect that performance of the 6970 was not quite as good as the 580, so they are figuring out ways to increase clocks and still keep the card cooler and quieter.

Since they are going second this round, they really have to be careful what they do to tweak the card. If they increase clocks and require excess voltage to do it, then they create a power hungry card and will require greater cooling, which is likely to increase noise...

I guess we will have to see on or around December 13th.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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Yes, but "There isn't any shortage of those chips" and "using the time to make 69xx faster" strongly come across as factual statements.

So, the "IMHO" at the end of my quote flew over your head then?
And I believe that my comments are factual. At least IMHO.

There's that ACRONYM again.. :D
 
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Aristotelian

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
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Really, and you have this opinion of me in 10 months and 142 posts? No offence.

No offence taken, but in those 10 months how often have you posted? The number of my posts makes no difference in how I assess YOU, see? That's logic right there: I only need to see YOUR posts to have an opinion of YOU. Mine don't factor in.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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No offence taken, but in those 10 months how often have you posted? The number of my posts makes no difference in how I assess YOU, see? That's logic right there: I only need to see YOUR posts to have an opinion of YOU. Mine don't factor in.

I laughed out loud for this one. You are absolutely correct. :D
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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I've already disagreed with you on this in another thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30747631&postcount=56

I'm in the market for either dual GTX 580s or dual 6970s, and I am price sensitive. It will most likely be the GTX 580s this time simply because I still have a step up with EVGA on one of the my GTX 470s. Basically, financial reasons. Right now, I'm having a hard time selling a GTX 470 on ebay, so I'll jump on the chance to get full value on a step-up for the other one. Although, I'm stuck getting anything until either the one card sells or the step up queue moves along, so yeah price/money matter.

Funny that you mention 'penny pinching' too because it's been more than once that I've cashed out a bunch of change at CoinStar to buy a video card. :)

From what I've seen, most people aren't exactly bargain shoppers when it comes to the high end gear. There are lots of engineers with money to burn on tech stuff. I think jonnyguru said something about BFG's collapse... something like how the sales of BFG PSUs at Best Buy was TEN TIMES the sales at Newegg. So while you and I might wait for good deals, there are tons of people who are so ignorant or who simply don't care, that they will buy at inflated prices. Maybe they even feel GOOD about it, because they WANT to pay tons of $ on the assumption that they will get "the best" in return. I mean, there are plenty of young, single engineers pulling serious salaries who won't even bother trying to save $50 on a GTX580 if it's inconvenient to do so.

I'm a total cheapskate when it comes to video cards and gaming in general. I think about total cost of ownership weighed against performance and resale value, etc. I even look at idle power draws and weigh the merits of axial vs. radial fans. I'm STILL waiting to buy ME2 because I want to buy a cut-rate package deal with all DLC included. Etc. My gf thinks I'm a real miser sometimes, but outside of consumer goods, I'm not as much of a miser. She didn't complain when I dropped $150 on a meal for two a couple of months ago, for instance. :)

Coinstar video card... haha. I think both of us are not exactly mainstream.
 
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apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
You're right, they aren't making up excuses. They are just flat out lying. This is pretty much the same thing NVIDIA did last year, but without the wood screws.
. . .
There is no lie. You can only talk about what they did not say which may indeed speak volumes. Nvidia did not lie. Only someone with an agenda in the audience would have reported that Jensen was holding up a production GTX 480. i was there in the audience and i asked Jensen a question for my site. i also got confirmed immediately afterward that what Jensen was holding up was a "production mock-up" yet was assured that the demos we were seeing at the GTX was run on "Fermi silicon"

And AMD is not lying .. they ARE taking a bit more time to bring our Cayman. SINCE AMD gave no reasons for the delay, therefore it cannot be a lie. Logic.
^_^
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
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So, the "IMHO" at the end of my quote flew over your head then?
And I believe that my comments are factual. At least IMHO.

There's that ACRONYM again.. :D
Fair enough, but you said, The chip shortage is IMHO, absolute BS. so you are stating as fact that AMD is using the time to somehow make the card faster?

BTW, what do you base your opinion on that AMD needs to make the cards faster?
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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And now we'll all stop talking about each other and back to the delayed 69 series, right everyone?

That is funny, because you are one of the main reasons for all thread derailing. Maybe you should look at your own posting habits? Maybe quit with your sarcastic one liners that you are so famous for? Just a thought.
 

Jdawg84

Senior member
Feb 6, 2010
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My personal opinion that they expected to beat nVidia without much of a fight. However, the 580 threw a wrench with the release. I highly suspect that performance of the 6970 was not quite as good as the 580, so they are figuring out ways to increase clocks and still keep the card cooler and quieter.

Since they are going second this round, they really have to be careful what they do to tweak the card. If they increase clocks and require excess voltage to do it, then they create a power hungry card and will require greater cooling, which is likely to increase noise...

I guess we will have to see on or around December 13th.

This!

Totally agree with you. 580's release caught them off guard and compared to it the 6970 wasn't up to par.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
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There is no lie. You can only talk about what they did not say which may indeed speak volumes. Nvidia did not lie. Only someone with an agenda in the audience would have reported that Jensen was holding up a production GTX 480. i was there in the audience and i asked Jensen a question for my site. i also got confirmed immediately afterward that what Jensen was holding up was a "production mock-up" yet was assured that the demos we were seeing at the GTX was run on "Fermi silicon"

And AMD is not lying .. they ARE taking a bit more time to bring our Cayman. SINCE AMD gave no reasons for the delay, therefore it cannot be a lie. Logic.
^_^

Agreed.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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Fair enough, but you said, The chip shortage is IMHO, absolute BS. so you are stating as fact that AMD is using the time to somehow make the card faster?

BTW, what do you base your opinion on that AMD needs to make the cards faster?

So, you understand now???? I can't figure out what you're asking me here.

And the second sentence? Ummm, because I think there isn't any shortage of TI chips?????? No other reason? And perhaps the "surprise" that is GTX580?

Seems to add up better than TI having a shortage of POS little chips that they can probably fab by the millions if they needed.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
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That is funny, because you are one of the main reasons for all thread derailing. Maybe you should look at your own posting habits? Maybe quit with your sarcastic one liners that you are so famous for? Just a thought.

Go right ahead and quote my very first post here in this thread. Scrutinize it, analyze it. Tell me how it was off topic, or personal in any way. Then tell me how your comment above applies to anything remotely what you're accusing?
Sheesh. And it's absolutely hilarious, that my call for getting back on topic and getting off the personal business, is met by even more accusation. Surprising from you ArchAngel.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,979
589
126
My personal opinion that they expected to beat nVidia without much of a fight. However, the 580 threw a wrench with the release. I highly suspect that performance of the 6970 was not quite as good as the 580, so they are figuring out ways to increase clocks and still keep the card cooler and quieter.

Since they are going second this round, they really have to be careful what they do to tweak the card. If they increase clocks and require excess voltage to do it, then they create a power hungry card and will require greater cooling, which is likely to increase noise...

I guess we will have to see on or around December 13th.
There is no way AMD has enough time to redesign the fansink. At best, they can increase the clocks and change the fan profiles, and of course tweak drivers. As for AMD "expecting to beat Nvidia without much of a fight" I find this ridiculous. AMD/ATI have been fierce competitors with Nvidia for a very long time, there is no way either of them sit back and expect to easily win.

Also, AMD's strategy the last 3 generations is not to have the absolute fastest performance from a single GPU, but to have the best performance/watt/price. It has worked extremely well for them, so if the 6970 does end up besting the GTX580, it's more a failing on Nvidia's part rather than a fundamental shift in philosophy on AMD's part.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
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Go right ahead and quote my very first post here in this thread. Scrutinize it, analyze it. Tell me how it was off topic, or personal in any way. Then tell me how your comment above applies to anything remotely what you're accusing?
Sheesh.

Go right ahead and quote my very first post here in this thread. Scrutinize it, analyze it. Tell me how it was off topic, or personal in any way. Right back at you.

Now, as for the post where you addressed mine, you had to go off topic to tell me to get back on topic? Where does the insanity end? Sheeeeeeesh!
 

Aristotelian

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,246
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Go right ahead and quote my very first post here in this thread. Scrutinize it, analyze it. Tell me how it was off topic, or personal in any way. Then tell me how your comment above applies to anything remotely what you're accusing?
Sheesh. And it's absolutely hilarious, that my call for getting back on topic and getting off the personal business, is met by even more accusation. Surprising from you ArchAngel.

When people start posting (you didn't post, I'm just providing an explanation for my series of posts) "AMD got caught with their pants down", it's not a digression in a thread to explain that this isn't the case.

I think the worst off people right now are those in the market for a 580 or 6970, because with the delay they'll just have to pay the full 500+ dollars for the 580, a price without competition.

Having said that, I think the 580 is a good card. And funnily enough Keys, they catered for the quiet/less power crowd that wasn't so enthusiastic at PDX LAN, eh?
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
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There is no way AMD has enough time to redesign the fansink. At best, they can increase the clocks and change the fan profiles, and of course tweak drivers. As for AMD "expecting to beat Nvidia without much of a fight" I find this ridiculous. AMD/ATI have been fierce competitors for a very long time, there is no way either of them sit back and expect to easily win.

Also, AMD's strategy the last 3 generations is not to have the absolute fastest performance from a single GPU, but to have the best performance/watt/price. It has worked extremely well for them, so if the 6970 does end up besting the GTX580, it's more a failing on Nvidia's part rather than a fundamental shift in philosophy on AMD's part.

This is true. ATI's strategy since at least HD48xx has been to make money rather than grab perf crowns. If the two happen to align, great, but I'm sure ATI's parent (AMD) instilled a lot of fiscal discipline in them. Antilles is supposed to be their answer to GTX580, not Cayman.

As for fans, supposed TI supply problems, etc. I find that suspicious, given that hardware was already in AIB hands earlier this month. Sounds more like a software problem, which is not ideal but still acceptable as long as they really can fix the drivers by mid-December. Let the hardware pile up in warehouses for a few more weeks so that a hard launch gets even harder.