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AMD64's and multitasking, time to know.

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EmoshBZ

Senior member
Here's the deal, we have some folks claiming the AMD64's absolutely suck as multitasking. We need to test this theory and eiter confirm it or put it to rest.

What you AMD64 owner's need to do, including myself once I get home tonight, is to do some testing. I suggest finding a very large music CD you personally own, begin ripping and encoding the whole cd to mp3, all while browsing the web. While it's in the oven, open several browser windows and note the performance. Does it take roughly a minute to open the browser during an encode? Does your machine seem extremely sluggish?

Let us know here.

 
I personally love to play Warcraft 3 (popular real time strategy by Blizzard). I'm always the first one to load the map, and usually while I wait for others to load I surf the net.
 
My Barton system does fine in your test EmoshBZ. I don't think that's a very demanding test for what you are trying to prove/disprove.

An alternative is to create a huge zip file (pick the data, make it big), rip a CD to mp3 with high bitrate, and browse some flash heavy websites while playing back some digital audio.

That'll load your system down.
 
Rumors are out that AMD is going to do a dual CPU on-die to combat with HT, making it that much better. If it happens, that's gonna be freakin amazing 😱
 
Umm, I have no problems with my system bogging down:

Athlon 64 3200+
1GB Kingston HyperX PC3500 CAS2
AOpen AK86-L

I run Windows XP SP1 and I have my Leadtek Winfast TV2000 XP going 24-7 while I'm doing daily tasks. I can have my TV going and rip movies and MP3's no problem and never have my tuner skip a beat. Or I can be encoding my captured TV shows to High-Quality WMV format while watching TV full or partial screen and never have my computer skip a beat. My system never skips a beat while defragging either (DKW 8.0). And this is all while I normally have 100's of MB of files downloading in the background via my USB 802.11b adapter (I'm downstairs, router is upstairs).

I usually have Outlook 2003 open at all times along with ~ 10 IE Windows + AIM, ZoneAlarm, etc.

But for what I use my machine for, I've NEVER seen it bog down or become overburdened.
 
To "bog" a system down is difficult, what usually happens is that certain tasks(like ripping, conversion) just take longer. What will "bog" a system down is overloading the PCI bus or if a Harddisk Controller is not operating properly using up lots of CPU cycles. That's been my experience anyway for the last 3-4 years using everything from a Duron 650 to my current Barton 2800+(couple other cpu's in between).
 
So if one had 2 hard drives, one with lots of data on it, one could do a big copy job from one drive to the other while ripping a CD to high bitrate mp3 or while ripping a DVD while also zipping up a lot of data into a highly compressed zip file while playing pack some digital audio while browsing some flash heavy webpages and downloading a giant game demo or some linux images. 🙂

Would that do it?
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
So if one had 2 hard drives, one with lots of data on it, one could do a big copy job from one drive to the other while ripping a CD to high bitrate mp3 or while ripping a DVD while also zipping up a lot of data into a highly compressed zip file while playing pack some digital audio while browsing some flash heavy webpages and downloading a giant game demo or some linux images. 🙂

Would that do it?
Click to expand...

Likely, but that would probably be caused by something other than CPU Multitasking. Your IDE/PCI busses would likely be saturated.
 
So what could we do to overwork the CPU? Run SETI or Prime95 while playing a game? And give each process a high priority?
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
So what could we do to overwork the CPU? Run SETI or Prime95 while playing a game? And give each process a high priority?
Click to expand...

Running SETI 24/7 while playing games, encoding, etc doesn't "bog" a system, I do it all the time. Although, if you do what Ulric just suggested, running SETI Realtime or High Priority will "bog" a system. IMO, "Bogging" a system really has little to do with Multitasking as Priortization allows Multitasking by good scheduling of tasks. What or How good Multitasking benefits is in the Performance that Multiple tasks acheive. For instance: I can run SETI and Game with no noticeable affect on the task that I'm doind(Gaming), however SETI will operate at a much lower rate. It really depends on the Priorities that tasks work at, if 2 try to operate with High Priority there could be problems, but that usually doesn't happen unless the User forces that Priority.

To really test Multitasking, first test various tasks as a Single task, then run them at the same time and see how long they take to complete. This way you'll see how much longer the Individual tasks take when under a Multitasking environment. That's how I'd do it anyway.

edit: Oops, just re-read your post. Yes, if you give both a High Priority you'll "bog" your system, msot people wouldn't even know how to do it though, so it's not much of a useful test. Geeks would like to know though. 🙂
 
Some good test??...Since I think many of the systems are pretty powerful today and good thread priority just slows down other task and keeps from becoming non responsive


I say not so much bog down as multiple apps not being effective or efficient to run in multitasking....

case in point...


SETI ppl or FH ppl....

Run without any other app running....record a time of so many frames or a certain percentage of the seti file complete....Now run it in conjunction with a very cpu intensive app like POV-Ray rendering, TMPGenc (any other encoding applicatiobs),....Basically any application that on its own takes 100% cpu power.....

What you will see is that without messing with priorities that for the most part the encoding will continue to fly almost as norma but in the end of it the cpu time of the SETI program will have barely got any cpu cycles or the frame time will be considerably higher then before.

NOw change the prioirty for normal on both applications and look at it.....


Run an encoding app like TMPGenc, and capture DV camcorder from firewire as raw AVI, while watching the TV tuner or DVD, and downloading off the internet....

Run tmpgenc, Capture DVD peg2 high standards off of a AIW or comparable card, while wathcing DVD, and then for the clincher winrar compress a couple MB of files!!! Tell me how the system feels there....


The problem with you guys and your so called multitasking above are those things by themselves on current systems are quite medial....Add a bunch of them together and you barely hit 100% cpu power....I can cpature with my AIW card at high resolution mpeg2 standards and take like 35 or less in cpu percentage......having 10 Ie browsers open is more abou sucking up ram then multitasking so dont be fooled into thinking that is cpu power...I could have that much crap opened with my k62-400 with 512mb of ram of pc100 ram...I mean cmon.....PLaying DVDs, ripping DVDs are more dependent on IO devices and again take very little cpu utilization...So you are not showing us much...


CPU INTENSIVE APPLICATIONS PPL!!!!!
 
YOu ppl want to know how a barton 3200+ acted in multitaksing test like I list above??? Go check out my multitasking thread in CPU forum and look at how the p4 acted in those cpu intensive applications with HT off in bios and that is about right with scores a bit less since the Barton 3200+ was no where near the the p4c at 3.2ghz......

I imagine the A64 would do better....With better memory controller and I think even hard drive controllers it may help it but I believe fundamentally it still comes down to thread scheduling and ultimately it may not do much better in times but will be harder to bog down...

I believe SETI ppl have shown 2 instances of it run simultaneously gained no speed. The result was twce as long to get 2 wu down as 1....However for the P4 w/ HT (this is well documented) 2 instances result in faster time per WU.....

My results with a common client and Mechbgon's test format resulted in 1 instance ran at similar times to that of a 3000+ @ 2.2-2.3ghz.....2hrs-7min...When I ran 2 instances simlutaneously I completed 2 WUs in 2hrs 59min or about 41% faster....
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
So what could we do to overwork the CPU? Run SETI or Prime95 while playing a game? And give each process a high priority? (maybe realtime as UlricT pointed out)
Click to expand...

What about that Duvie? I think this in conjunction with something that hogged the PCI bus could slow down even an HT powered rig. What you do you think?
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: Megatomic
So what could we do to overwork the CPU? Run SETI or Prime95 while playing a game? And give each process a high priority? (maybe realtime as UlricT pointed out)
Click to expand...

What about that Duvie? I think this in conjunction with something that hogged the PCI bus could slow down even an HT powered rig. What you do you think?
Click to expand...


I don't know I could try it, but I can't change priority with HT enabled...I have gone over this in other threads...prioirity functions as we have known them seem to be overridden when HT is enabled...Either makes no difference or has virtually opposite effect. It appears as if the HT schedules this stuff itself through the HT enabled software.....

So I could run TMPGenc which is far more taxing on my system since it actually runs 100% while SETI and prime95 only run 50% as single apps (in a dual cpu readout common with P4 HT systems in task manager). For example we all the know the reason HT systems run 2 instances of prime95 when stress testing....I guess running FH and Prime95 at same time will give me that 100% loading effect....

For me a good example would be run TMPGenc and POV-Ray or FH since as I tell you the standard low priority of FH gets overridden.....Then what PCI bus hog??? Are you thinking the game running through the agp bus will be the hog...How about capturing a firewire transfer or download huge files from my USB card reader???


update: YOu may need to give me a beter example of pci hog cause I have done this stuff and there was no where near a bog down...Game was playable...FH was getting work donw and my encoding was proceeding just fine.....I have even compressed files and cpatured at same time to no slow down....

One thing also when you game in HT it is given the highest priority since it is in the foreground....
 
I didn't know that about the HT function, I honestly haven't kept up on it since I currently run an AMD system. That's interesting to say the least, though...

To hog the PCI bus, perhaps a disk to disk transfer of several GBs of data while ripping a DVD while playing back some mp3s might saturate it. I don't know, I typically don't run so much on my computer at once and I doubt I would if I had an HT enabled rig. But it would be fun to know that I could if I wanted to. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
I didn't know that about the HT function, I honestly haven't kept up on it since I currently run an AMD system. That's interesting to say the least, though...

To hog the PCI bus, perhaps a disk to disk transfer of several GBs of data while ripping a DVD while playing back some mp3s might saturate it. I don't know, I typically don't run so much on my computer at once and I doubt I would if I had an HT enabled rig. But it would be fun to know that I could if I wanted to. 🙂
Click to expand...


Go take a look again at the things I ran in testing the HT in the cpu forum...see what bogged down the p4 w/o HT and didn't bog down the p4 w/ HT.....I just started to run out of things to do but I could just keep adding things until it happened.....I will do some with more dvd-ripping from the dvd-rom and Norton AV scanning, file transfers, etc....

 
Originally posted by: EmoshBZ
Here's the deal, we have some folks claiming the AMD64's absolutely suck as multitasking. We need to test this theory and eiter confirm it or put it to rest.

What you AMD64 owner's need to do, including myself once I get home tonight, is to do some testing. I suggest finding a very large music CD you personally own, begin ripping and encoding the whole cd to mp3, all while browsing the web. While it's in the oven, open several browser windows and note the performance. Does it take roughly a minute to open the browser during an encode? Does your machine seem extremely sluggish?

Let us know here.
Click to expand...

Any system that doesn't have multiple CPUs (or one that pretends to be two) will be almost unusable if you run an encoder at higher priority. Note that if you're running low on ram that could also cause trouble. In order to validly test mutlitasking performance, you need to run everything at the same priority (e.g. SETI at normal priority, a game at normal priority). I don't know what you expect to find though.

Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Megatomic
So what could we do to overwork the CPU? Run SETI or Prime95 while playing a game? And give each process a high priority?
Click to expand...

Running SETI 24/7 while playing games, encoding, etc doesn't "bog" a system, I do it all the time. Although, if you do what Ulric just suggested, running SETI Realtime or High Priority will "bog" a system. IMO, "Bogging" a system really has little to do with Multitasking as Priortization allows Multitasking by good scheduling of tasks. What or How good Multitasking benefits is in the Performance that Multiple tasks acheive. For instance: I can run SETI and Game with no noticeable affect on the task that I'm doind(Gaming), however SETI will operate at a much lower rate. It really depends on the Priorities that tasks work at, if 2 try to operate with High Priority there could be problems, but that usually doesn't happen unless the User forces that Priority.
Click to expand...

Right... when you're using 100% of the CPU time, the system appears "bogged" down to whatever processes have lower priorites. Making SETI high priority to "bog" down a system is pretty stupid - the computer is giving all it's resources to something that demands lots of power, just as you told it to.

To really test Multitasking, first test various tasks as a Single task, then run them at the same time and see how long they take to complete. This way you'll see how much longer the Individual tasks take when under a Multitasking environment. That's how I'd do it anyway.

edit: Oops, just re-read your post. Yes, if you give both a High Priority you'll "bog" your system, msot people wouldn't even know how to do it though, so it's not much of a useful test. Geeks would like to know though. 🙂
Click to expand...
It is still hardly a valid test. A better test is multiple processes at the same priority.

Originally posted by: Duvie
What you will see is that without messing with priorities that for the most part the encoding will continue to fly almost as norma but in the end of it the cpu time of the SETI program will have barely got any cpu cycles or the frame time will be considerably higher then before.
Click to expand...

When you run a CPU intensive app at a higher priority than another CPU intensive app, the low priority one gets starved. It doesn't matter WHAT architecture the processor is - unless you either have two CPUs or emulate two CPUs, the lower priority process does (and should) get starved.

Originally posted by: Duvie
YOu ppl want to know how a barton 3200+ acted in multitaksing test like I list above??? Go check out my multitasking thread in CPU forum and look at how the p4 acted in those cpu intensive applications with HT off in bios and that is about right with scores a bit less since the Barton 3200+ was no where near the the p4c at 3.2ghz......

I imagine the A64 would do better....With better memory controller and I think even hard drive controllers it may help it but I believe fundamentally it still comes down to thread scheduling and ultimately it may not do much better in times but will be harder to bog down...
Click to expand...
Thread scheduling is done by the software (part of the OS kernel).

I believe SETI ppl have shown 2 instances of it run simultaneously gained no speed. The result was twce as long to get 2 wu down as 1....However for the P4 w/ HT (this is well documented) 2 instances result in faster time per WU.....
Click to expand...
Yes, because of HT, which emulates two CPUs. One CPU can only run one thread at a time, unless it plays tricks to appear to be two CPUs. It isn't because of any weird scheduling differences - it's just that two CPUs can do more things at a time than one.

 
Originally posted by: Duvie

BLA BLA BLA...

Run tmpgenc, Capture DVD peg2 high standards off of a AIW or comparable card, while wathcing DVD, and then for the clincher winrar compress a couple MB of files!!! Tell me how the system feels there....

BLA BLA BLA...

CPU INTENSIVE APPLICATIONS PPL!!!!!
Click to expand...

I have one phrase: "WHO GIVE A CRAP!!??" 😀

For what I do, my system doesn't bog down and that's all that matters. As long as I can encode, capture, record and multitask without my nuts being chopped off, and still have the ability to pull out awesome frames in my games when I want to play, I'm fine.

That whole line of crap running at one times sounds more like someone bragging about their 1/4 mile times then someone actually doing that on a daily basis.

And all of this mumbo jumbo crap about SETI...why should I care about aliens?😉
 
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