Interesting news
I wonder if this is a sign of healthy margins this year either projected or rolling in?
I wonder if this is a sign of healthy margins this year either projected or rolling in?
AMD to build third foundry in Germany
- Thread starter imported_michaelpatrick33
- Start date
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
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Nope, they really need to build 2 fabs @ a time but no way in hell can they afford it. This new fab will be ready for 2008 which will co inside with FAB 36 for the last part of it's life. It'll just be a crossover fab.
I'm surprised they didn't consider Canada for that plant. It's much cheaper to do business in Canada than in any other 1st-World nation. Just look at Japanese auto manufacturers: they're opening plants in Canada (especially in Ontario) like mad!
yes, about 2.8 bill. Euros was the price for Fab36. Minus 23% government grant from Germany. And plus 100 mill. Euros per anno for the 1000 employees in 2006-7. Pricey. But when its running at full capacity theyll build 150.000 CPUs a year.
Heres a paper from the commission that gave the state grants. http://europa.eu.int/comm/secretariat_g...l/sgb/state_aids/comp-2003/n522-03.pdf
So, i guess costs and subventions are similiar regarding the next Fab.
There have been some weird 'signs' available locally in my neighborhood, for some time.
One large 'local' component retail and mailorder business currently, right now, sells about 100 CPUs from AMD for each Intel CPU. They order AMD by 1000 quantities, but don't bother to keep more than a handful (1-10) in stock of each Pentium. Much the same with mainboards. 15-16 months ago they were full of Intel stuff.
A 'local' OEM/custom builder hired an "Intelfanboy" as a new engineer a couple of years ago. And soon switched to a Dell scheme of 100% Intel. About a year ago I had a social getogether with one of their sellers/owners. I've known these guys since decades back. I asked him about Prescotts and heat. And you could, almost literally, see the panic glowing out of his eyes.
Today, I gather that they've lost 70% of their business. Basically their highend. Not many of their traditional techminded customers wanted Intel anymore, and have found other sources. Well, I feel sorry for them since I know them, but they made their own bed. ...- And they recently started to build AMD64 systems.
"AMD64" is also very much visable in large stores, selling brandname OEM. In systems from HP and others.
Also, BTW, AT in a recent article reported that 65% of all desktop boards currently shipping from Taiwan, are for AMD. And 90% of server boards! Since those figures normally should be about 20%, something is going on.
AMD may still only have 17% (30% of server-) of the market, officially. But either that is soon going to change, at least a bit, or Dell have been very successful recently.
Intel seem to be completely flattened in the retail/enthusiast sector.
Together with IBM, Sun and HP enthusiastically pushing Opteron servers, it could mean AMD can get a bit better recognition. It's important they do, in the coming year, or so. Before Intel release their Conroe.
(Of course AMD DO indeed have something up their sleeve
. But I doubt we'll see the same outclassing advantage for AMD, as currently prevails.)On the market situation today, speculating, it wouldn't surprise me if AMD reserves a good share of their CPU production for Opteron and high end retail business. Speculating, they could possible win more OEM orders. But they want to keep the market presence where they have made real progress. Possibly AMD feel they could shift more CPUs, if they could produce them. This could be behind their arrangements for outsourcing production, and the aggressive plans for more fabs.
(Frankly, maybe they can't afford yet another fab. But, OTH, they don't have much of a choice. They cannot afford not to have another fab either. AMD is in a very difficult situation. Which their current technical superiority offers a oncetime opportunity to escape.)
2.8 BILLION is unreal..
Even at full capacity, producing 150k CPU's doesn't seem to pay off..
:Q
How many years does a FAB stay running? 5-10? Less?
Even at full capacity, producing 150k CPU's doesn't seem to pay off..
:Q
How many years does a FAB stay running? 5-10? Less?
microAmp
Diamond Member
- Jul 5, 2000
- 5,988
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150k processors per year doesn't sound nearly right.
Take an 8 inch wafer, really 200mm, find total area of wafer surface. If I remember my math right thats 31,400mm square area.
If the .09µm processors use about 100mm area, you get 314 processors per wafer.
In 2 fabs I worked at, plus my brother when he worked at AMD Fab 25, there are 25 wafers per "lot". 25 x 314 = 7,850 total processors per lot.
Fabs usually have say 4,000 to 7,000 wafers total running through a fab, or 160 lots to 280 lots. ~1.25 million to ~2.2 million processors total.
Question is how long does it take from start to end in the fab? One place worked at the Fab averaged 70 days per lot, say 100 days for AMD from grins and giggles. I would guess ~ 3.5 million to ~6 million processors total.
Of course you have yield too that reduces that number.
Take an 8 inch wafer, really 200mm, find total area of wafer surface. If I remember my math right thats 31,400mm square area.
If the .09µm processors use about 100mm area, you get 314 processors per wafer.
In 2 fabs I worked at, plus my brother when he worked at AMD Fab 25, there are 25 wafers per "lot". 25 x 314 = 7,850 total processors per lot.
Fabs usually have say 4,000 to 7,000 wafers total running through a fab, or 160 lots to 280 lots. ~1.25 million to ~2.2 million processors total.
Question is how long does it take from start to end in the fab? One place worked at the Fab averaged 70 days per lot, say 100 days for AMD from grins and giggles. I would guess ~ 3.5 million to ~6 million processors total.
Of course you have yield too that reduces that number.
Very well said, microAmp.
The only clarification I have is the amount of wafers in the fab at one time. I've read that Fab36 will start ~5000 wafers per week, once ramped up. It takes about 10 weeks to get those out of the fab... So at any given time, there's going to be about 50,000 wafers in the fab.
I'm guessing that F30 has somewhere in the neighborhood of 7000 wafer starts per week.
And of course, F36 will use 300mm wafers.
The initial capacity of the fab is 13 000 300mm wafers per month, but the building itself allows AMD to expand the foundry to produce up to 20 000 wafers per month.
I know the total area of clean room in FAB 30 is ~ 14,000m² ,not sure on FAB 36, but it's easy it's going to be bigger.
oops, i meant to say 150000 Wafers a year. And yes F36 is using 300mm wafers for the front end production of 65nm CPUs.
Originally posted by: ScrewFace
I'm surprised they didn't consider Canada for that plant. It's much cheaper to do business in Canada than in any other 1st-World nation. Just look at Japanese auto manufacturers: they're opening plants in Canada (especially in Ontario) like mad!
Ya I think this is why David doesn't like Amd. He thinks those plants should be hear. Canada would be better. than GERMANY . With all the white colar USA people leaving the Usa recently for Canada . David would like to go to Canada also. But he said it wouldn't do any good in 10 years if we moved. Mexico well be bordering Canada anyway. And we would be right were we are now.
Good info! Nice post..
Makes the 2.2 Billion seem a bit more reasonable when pumping out millions of CPU's per year..
How long does a FAB stay in operation?
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
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Hate to rain on this parade but AMD is selling less processors now than they did on 2001 according to Ed. (beware old bitter fart)
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00794/
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00794/
About 4 years , you can keep it going as long as you keep retooling but that costs quite a bit, hence why FAB 30 will stay @ 90 nm production and then be used for chipsets etc.
I didnt know that the amount of CPU's sold by AMD effects the overclocker ? yet he feels the need to bring it up, jesus why dont you bring up 3rd world debt or why the sky is blue ?
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