Question AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9000 “Shimada Peak” spotted with 32 and 64 Zen5 cores

[poke01]

I need them for my DC work. I have no use for cinebench.

He's taking about the 32 e-cores in NVL-S? Do you need 32 e-cores or would you prefer actual classic cores?

Side track but NVL-S "52" core is bad design. It WILL be expensive, AMD is once again smart with their offerings. 2 12 core CCDs much cheaper than whatever Windows scheduler hell Intel is gonna do with that part.


The people who buy threadripper/Xeon want stability and you don't get that with consumer platforms.

 

[Markfw]

He's taking about the 32 e-cores in NVL-S? Do you need 32 e-cores or would you prefer actual classic cores?

Side track but NVL-S "52" core is bad design. It WILL be expensive, AMD is once again smart with their offerings. 2 12 core CCDs much cheaper than whatever Windows scheduler hell Intel is gonna do with that part.


The people who buy threadripper/Xeon want stability and you don't get that with consumer platforms.

I buy 16 core consumer, as well as 64 core EPYC. as for the competition in Zen 6 and whatever the competition offers, I will wait till then, but I suspect I will most likely continue to buy both the 24 core consumer and the 64 core (or more) EPYC.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Who said that.

AMD and Intel indirectly said it by having 50-52T SKUs in their next CPU lineup on DT.

Olympic Ridge is 24c because the CCDs are 12c a pop.

Yes.

It's not about wants, it's about you will.

Nobody will pay more than that have to. If they can get what they need cheaper from NVL-S or Olympic Ridge than TR, then they won't buy TR. Simple as that.

Point is people that need the nT crunch always have money.

Again, nobody will pay more than they have to. Does not matter how much money you have.

 

[Fjodor2001]

No one buys the 16 cores now why would anyone buy the 24 core later?

Not sure if you're serious. Of course 16C sells, and 24C will sell too. Sure, fewer than 8C, but still.

If you don't think 16C sells, then why do you think AMD has it in their lineup? And how come both AMD and Intel will bump the core count even further with Olympic Ridge and NVL-S? Even up to 26-28C and 52C respectively (including LP cores), which is far above 8C.

The sales of 16c DIY right now is tiny

16C Zen5 DT sells much more than TR, which we're comparing to.

 

[iamgenius]

Efficient cores? No thanks. I want real cores.

 

[jpiniero]

and 52C respectively

Again, most of that is the Cinebench Accelerators though.

 

[inquiss]

Not sure if you're serious. Of course 16C sells, and 24C will sell too. Sure, fewer than 8C, but still.

If you don't think 16C sells, then why do you think AMD has it in their lineup? And how come both AMD and Intel will bump the core count even further with Olympic Ridge and NVL-S? Even up to 26-28C and 52C respectively (including LP cores), which is far above 8C.

16C Zen5 DT sells much more than TR, which we're comparing to.

16c AMD sales make up less than 1% of desktop DIY AMD sales. So no, I'm not joking, I'm being serious. It's a niche part of the market.

Why do they make them? They can, it's easy, and I expect it's also because of the optics. People like you think it's really important and that everyone wants them in part because they are reviewed and you get visibility. But very few people actually buy them, and that's ok.

The biggest impact of the increase in core counts on the CCD is that the standard for cores with go from 6-8 to 8-12. That the high end goes to 24c from 16c will be largely irrelevant based on current buying behaviour.

 

[LightningZ71]

Most people fishing for that many cores also need a bunch more I/O than the basic AM5 platform offers currently. I think that, if AMD really wanted to sell more dual CCD processors, they would find a way to address the vast gulf in I/O capability that separates AM5 from the TR platforms. I don't expect some massively optimized solution, but, having an intermediate level chipset similar in concept to the Intel C-series ones seems quite useful. The concept would be to have 8 lanes of PCIe 6.0 to this chipset from the processor, then have plenty of lanes downstream, even if they are just PCIe 4.0. 4 x 8x PCIe 4.0 slots wouldn't saturate the upstream link. Even if they were full x16 slots at 4.0, that wouldn't be more than 2x over subscribed, which would likely not be a real issue in practice. 24 cores with that kind of I/O capacity would definitely be attractive for the group that wants more, but doesn't have the money to reach to the full TR space...

 

[Thunder 57]

Most people fishing for that many cores also need a bunch more I/O than the basic AM5 platform offers currently. I think that, if AMD really wanted to sell more dual CCD processors, they would find a way to address the vast gulf in I/O capability that separates AM5 from the TR platforms. I don't expect some massively optimized solution, but, having an intermediate level chipset similar in concept to the Intel C-series ones seems quite useful. The concept would be to have 8 lanes of PCIe 6.0 to this chipset from the processor, then have plenty of lanes downstream, even if they are just PCIe 4.0. 4 x 8x PCIe 4.0 slots wouldn't saturate the upstream link. Even if they were full x16 slots at 4.0, that wouldn't be more than 2x over subscribed, which would likely not be a real issue in practice. 24 cores with that kind of I/O capacity would definitely be attractive for the group that wants more, but doesn't have the money to reach to the full TR space...

PCIe 6 on mainstream isn't happening for a long time. Unfortunatly they have enough lanes for most people so they don't feel the need to add more. Even if they just put more PCIe lanes on the chipset I'd be happy with that. They don't much incentive though they'd rather upsell you to TR.

 

[adroc_thurston]

AMD and Intel indirectly said it by having 50-52T SKUs in their next CPU lineup on DT.

?

If they can get what they need cheaper from NVL-S or Olympic Ridge than TR, then they won't buy TR. Simple as that.

People don't buy either.

Again, nobody will pay more than they have to. Does not matter how much money you have.

Yeah they do.

 

[igor_kavinski]

They don't much incentive though they'd rather upsell you to TR.

Puget Systems Hardware Trends of 2024

With 2024 at a close, we wanted to look back at the sales trends we saw for CPUs, GPUs, storage, RAM and operating systems.

www.pugetsystems.com

Between AMD Threadripper and Threadripper PRO, we saw almost an exact 50/50 split throughout 2024, with Threadripper PRO only ending up with a slight 2% lead. These two product families accounted for almost 90% of our workstation CPU sales in 2024, with Intel Xeon W only being used in about 10% of the orders for this class of system.

TR is selling well because Intel refuses to lower prices of its underperforming HEDT Xeon W CPUs so until Intel feels the need to make additional sales in this sector by putting out something more attractive, AMD will not feel compelled to offer a cheaper TR-Lite platform.

 

[Thunder 57]

?

People don't buy either.

Yeah they do.

If that were true Amazon with have an option to pay more. Hell the way things are going though, maybe soon enough Amazon will be asking for tips too!

 

[StefanR5R]

nobody will pay more than they have to. Does not matter how much money you have.

Yeah they do.

If that were true […]

Sure it's true. (It is fundamental to modern society.)
Originally¹ HEDT had two audiences:
/a/ Folks who wanted to spend much much more on a home computer than made any sense at all.
/b/ Folks who wanted a workstation but didn't have a budget.
I am guessing the former audience was much bigger than the latter.

________
¹) when Intel supplied this market. Later, Intel gradually abandoned HEDT. Even later, AMD introduced Threadripper without much appeal as a status symbol but with great single-node performance per dollar. But this was only a brief intermezzo; it ended as quickly as it appeared. Right now, both Threadripper Pro and non-pro continue to cater to the /a/ audience, whereas the non-pro Threadripper is a somewhat difficult buy for the /b/ audience.

 

[Fjodor2001]

16c AMD sales make up less than 1% of desktop DIY AMD sales.

Link to source?

The biggest impact of the increase in core counts on the CCD is that the standard for cores with go from 6-8 to 8-12. That the high end goes to 24c from 16c will be largely irrelevant based on current buying behaviour.

It will mean 8C is the lowest core count in the complete lineup. All other SKUs will have more cores. And for NVL-S it's the same:


If you really think nobody will buy 16C or above, Intel should remove all SKUs in their lineup except the one at the bottom (or bottom three if you exclude LP cores). 🤣

 

[yottabit]

Link to source?

Steam Hardware survey shows 5% or more have exactly 16 physical cpu cores. So I’m guessing the 1% figure is pulled out of thin air

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

5% is more inline with what I expected. And bear in mind 5% by units is probably more like 7-10% by revenue since the 16 core chips carry a premium.

There’s also a pretty heavy lag to the steam survey results so I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount of gamers currently buying 16 core chips are well above 5%

Is there a popular Intel chip with 16 physical cores that would pollute these results? Either way, it’s definitely not 1% at least of the gaming market

 

[inquiss]

Link to source?

It will mean 8C is the lowest core count in the complete lineup. All other SKUs will have more cores. And for NVL-S it's the same:

View attachment 127931
If you really think nobody will buy 16C or above, Intel should remove all SKUs in their lineup except the one at the bottom (or bottom three if you exclude LP cores). 🤣

Intel already has removed their SKUs from the lineup, they're terrible. Nobody buys their processors.

 

[inquiss]

Steam Hardware survey shows 5% or more have exactly 16 physical cpu cores. So I’m guessing the 1% figure is pulled out of thin air

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

5% is more inline with what I expected. And bear in mind 5% by units is probably more like 7-10% by revenue since the 16 core chips carry a premium.

There’s also a pretty heavy lag to the steam survey results so I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount of gamers currently buying 16 core chips are well above 5%

Is there a popular Intel chip with 16 physical cores that would pollute these results? Either way, it’s definitely not 1% at least of the gaming market

Yeah, intel raptor lake i7.

If the argument here is that 5% means that my point is invalid then I'm not sure what to say (I disagree by the way because intel processors of yore have 16 cores and up, as do the current ones but no one buys them). A very small percentage of people clamber for more cores on standard desktops. For the sake of argument if we take 5%, how many of those 5% will want more cores? All of them? Half? It's tiny.

Compare that to the one CCD Vcache model and it's not hard to see where the big seller is going to be next gen. Clue: it will be the 12c Vcache model.

 

[jpiniero]

Review of the regular TRs.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9000 im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9000 im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Multi-Core-Leistung / Single-Core-Leistung

www.computerbase.de

AMD Threadripper 9980X + 9970X Linux Benchmarks: Incredible Workstation Performance Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[LightningZ71]

Steam Hardware survey shows 5% or more have exactly 16 physical cpu cores. So I’m guessing the 1% figure is pulled out of thin air

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

5% is more inline with what I expected. And bear in mind 5% by units is probably more like 7-10% by revenue since the 16 core chips carry a premium.

There’s also a pretty heavy lag to the steam survey results so I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount of gamers currently buying 16 core chips are well above 5%

Is there a popular Intel chip with 16 physical cores that would pollute these results? Either way, it’s definitely not 1% at least of the gaming market

Is your contention that EVERY SINGLE DIY BUYER has the steam client installed on their computer and ALSO agrees to the survey?!?! There can't possibly be ANYONE ELSE that's buying in the DIY market that would purchase lower end products, other than the full house, most expensive SKU with 16 cores, that may not play games on the steam platform? You don't see ANY possibility that the top end SKU might be just a LITTLE over represented in a survey that specifically looks at computers used by gamers who are notorious for buying the fastest available processor that they can manage?

It is my opinion that the steam hardware survey is not representative of the DIY market as a whole. Of gamers that buy DIY, perhaps close enough, but not the whole DIY market.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think the survey is just advertising on the kind of data they can provide to interested parties under NDA for the right price. That's extremely valuable data for publishers, for example, on what kind of hardware they should target for their next AAA game.

The fact that some games are now using raytracing as default means that they figure there's at least XX million users with decent hardware they can tap for profits and worst case scenario, even 10% of those buying the game should pay for the development costs and some change left for pizza.

 

[yottabit]

Is your contention that EVERY SINGLE DIY BUYER has the steam client installed on their computer and ALSO agrees to the survey?!?! There can't possibly be ANYONE ELSE that's buying in the DIY market that would purchase lower end products, other than the full house, most expensive SKU with 16 cores, that may not play games on the steam platform? You don't see ANY possibility that the top end SKU might be just a LITTLE over represented in a survey that specifically looks at computers used by gamers who are notorious for buying the fastest available processor that they can manage?

It is my opinion that the steam hardware survey is not representative of the DIY market as a whole. Of gamers that buy DIY, perhaps close enough, but not the whole DIY market.

My contention is the 1% figure does not have a source and appears to have been completely made up? I didn’t expect to get screamed at for linking data that actually a source To me - the difference between 1% and ~5% is pretty meaningful. Based on the i7 CPUs being included it's possible the truth is somewhere in the middle.

If you sum up “16 physical cores or greater” for the Steam hardware survey which would I suppose include the i9 CPUs we’re looking at 9.5% for the latest survey, with a 0.85% increase over the previous month, which is a pretty fast growth rate.

The steam hardware survey represents a large randomized sample to avoid weighting it toward the people with the powerful rigs.. I think it's probably the best data out there for gamers. I don't see many grandma's buying Ryzen desktops for entry level business/office tasks so I feel like gaming is likely a large part of the desktop and especially DIY market.

The original claim was "16c AMD sales make up less than 1% of desktop DIY AMD sales." and I'm still waiting on a source for that. Maybe someone has one? It just doesn't "smell" right to me.

By your definition I might qualify as a "DIY non-gamer" but I built a rig with a 5950x because I have prosumer/workstation requirements. So it cuts both ways.

 

[yottabit]

If we need another datapoint, here's an article with some numbers from Amazon for March 2025:

AMD Captures Nearly 80% Of CPU Market According To March Amazon US Stats: Generates Five Times More Revenue Than Intel

The March CPU sales stats on Amazon US are out and AMD is still holding the highest CPU market share with nearly 80% of total shipments.

wccftech.com

And some crude math based on it which indicates ~7% of Ryzens sold on Amazon are 16 core and an additional ~10% for 12 core.


This was also before the 9950X3D launched (but after the 9800X3D - the "9800" at the top there is actually the 9800X3D) so I would think if anything these numbers would be artificially low for 16 core at this time sample

In b4 someone tells me Amazon isn't a representative data source for DIY either and the real number is 0.00001%

Anyways I'm going to crawl back into my hole now and try to let the discussion get back to Threadripper. I am very curious for the Threadripper Pro reviews.

 

[LightningZ71]

Gamers are certainly a chunk of the DIY market and I dare say that most gamers in the US will have the steam client on their computer and those numbers shouldn't be too different as a percentage throughout most of the world. Steam data is likely a passable approximation for gamers on laptops, desktops and handhelds. But, the DIY market isn't the only market where 16 core AMD products are sold into. The Steam survey, to my knowledge, doesn't know if your computer is a DIY or is from an OEM. It knows components. On top of that, the OEM market VASTLY outsizes the DIY market. There are going to be a lot of computers in the survey that aren't DIY that are contributing numbers.

The Steam survey can give you hints about what gamers have available to play on, but, it's LIMITED in the insight that it can give for the broader market. This is my problem with it being sited as a source for DIY data.

The Amazon data, to me, is more useful, as is the Mindfactory data that gets released.

 

[Markfw]

If we need another datapoint, here's an article with some numbers from Amazon for March 2025:

AMD Captures Nearly 80% Of CPU Market According To March Amazon US Stats: Generates Five Times More Revenue Than Intel

The March CPU sales stats on Amazon US are out and AMD is still holding the highest CPU market share with nearly 80% of total shipments.

wccftech.com

And some crude math based on it which indicates ~7% of Ryzens sold on Amazon are 16 core and an additional ~10% for 12 core.
View attachment 127948

This was also before the 9950X3D launched (but after the 9800X3D - the "9800" at the top there is actually the 9800X3D) so I would think if anything these numbers would be artificially low for 16 core at this time sample

In b4 someone tells me Amazon isn't a representative data source for DIY either and the real number is 0.00001%

Anyways I'm going to crawl back into my hole now and try to let the discussion get back to Threadripper. I am very curious for the Threadripper Pro reviews.

We have the reviews. Links in 2 different threads. Post 143 avoce and another one. Use the phoronix review, always the best.

 

[iamgenius]

Enjoy!

https://videocardz.com/206379/amd-ryzen-threadripper-9000x-review-roundup