It is exciting news. I can't wait.
Question AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9000 “Shimada Peak” spotted with 32 and 64 Zen5 cores
- Thread starter iamgenius
- Start date
It is exciting news. I can't wait.
Markfw
Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
- May 16, 2002
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It does beg the question if x86 will be one day used mostly for server and workstation duty while ARM handles workloads that are less challenging.
Of course, gaming (consoles and PC's) will always require more processing and low latency memory than most any simple app that ARM can handle in a smart phone today.
It seems like AMD is executing quite well in the workstation area. I remember a time, not so long ago, when AMD wasn't even considered for this market. It seems like today, AMD dominates Workstation for a fraction of the price of the old guard.... and they are still pretty darned expensive
.
Of course, gaming (consoles and PC's) will always require more processing and low latency memory than most any simple app that ARM can handle in a smart phone today.
It seems like AMD is executing quite well in the workstation area. I remember a time, not so long ago, when AMD wasn't even considered for this market. It seems like today, AMD dominates Workstation for a fraction of the price of the old guard.... and they are still pretty darned expensive
.Consoles use GDDR6 so definitely using some sort of latency hiding mechanism.
Thunder 57
Diamond Member
- Aug 19, 2007
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No because ARM is growing extremely fast for servers. Workstations, maybe. Workstations from now on require accelerators, powerful CPU & GPU - especially with LLMs exploding.
It does beg the question if x86 will be one day used mostly for server and workstation duty while ARM handles workloads that are less challenging.
Of course, gaming (consoles and PC's) will always require more processing and low latency memory than most any simple app that ARM can handle in a smart phone today.
It seems like AMD is executing quite well in the workstation area. I remember a time, not so long ago, when AMD wasn't even considered for this market. It seems like today, AMD dominates Workstation for a fraction of the price of the old guard.... and they are still pretty darned expensive
Your views on ARM vs x86 are astoundingly out of date. Its like you're ignoring that Apple M chips even exist. You act like ARM is RISC V level, which hasn't been the case for like a decade at this point.
I'd guess Intel is still dominating sales of x86 workstations since most of those are bought via OEMs and they're still heavily Intel. I wouldn't be surprised if there's been more MacBook Pros bought as workstations (especially for Adobe based companies) than Threadrippers since the M series chips have been out.
Please feel free to expand and explain how my views on ARM vs x86 are "astoundingly out of date".
If you are going to present market figures on workstations, then don't just limit it to Threadrippers for x86, include ALL x86 vs ARM sales.
I look forward to meaningful discussions on this point.
Well ARM chips do not equal Apple chips. Until X series will be able to match M chips this will hold true.
Macbook Pro is not really a competition for Threadripper I would say
Threadrippers are for more niche market so I would be suprised if they would sell more.
mikeymikec
Lifer
- May 19, 2011
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And even after that it will remain true. Because vendor lock-in can drive all kinds of compromises in customer decisions.
– It may force customers to switch ISAs.
– It may force customers to stay on an ISA.
Some idle questions:
– Will they use the client CCDs or the server CCDs in Threadripper 9000?
– Will they adopt the new sIOD or stay on the old sIOD?
350 W default power target is not a lot for the higher core count parts. So maybe they go with the server CCDs. Edit, OTOH, Turin tops out at 4.8 GHz (except the 16c part 9175F: 5.0 GHz), so maybe the client CCD is in order for Threadripper.
The new sIOD would have the advantage that a higher CCD count could be supported in "GMI wide" mode than with the old sIOD. If they manage to cram this into the SP6/sTR5 package, that is.
– Will they use the client CCDs or the server CCDs in Threadripper 9000?
– Will they adopt the new sIOD or stay on the old sIOD?
350 W default power target is not a lot for the higher core count parts. So maybe they go with the server CCDs. Edit, OTOH, Turin tops out at 4.8 GHz (except the 16c part 9175F: 5.0 GHz), so maybe the client CCD is in order for Threadripper.
The new sIOD would have the advantage that a higher CCD count could be supported in "GMI wide" mode than with the old sIOD. If they manage to cram this into the SP6/sTR5 package, that is.
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The new one obviously. Otherwise they won't be able to get it running with DDR5-6000 or higher.
Because you're saying they're only good for simple tasks, yet they've been running as powerful of software as x86 for years now, between Apple's M chips, the various server based chips, and even Windows (although its still lackluster in many regards there, but I think there's native Adobe ARM on Windows apps now). There's been high core count server ARM chips for years already.
From 4+ years ago:
The Ampere Altra Review: 2x 80 Cores Arm Server Performance Monster
And I believe multiple major server/cloud companies (Amazon, I forget who all else) have been making their own ARM server chips as well. Yet you're wondering if ARM will ever be used for that? Its already happening.
I didn't present market figures, and I honestly couldn't care less, was just pointing out that you're likely wrong on both of your main points, that AMD is dominating HEDT (they are certainly dominating Intel there in most if not all performance metrics, but Intel is barely even competing in that market these days, both are just pushing their server chips to that market anyways, but Intel is still probably outselling AMD there simply because of inertia from their overall dominant market position and most of the HEDT market being through OEMs like Dell that offer mostly Intel based workstations).
Well ARM chips do not equal Apple chips. Until X series will be able to match M chips this will hold true.
Macbook Pro is not really a competition for Threadripper I would say
Wouldn't it be until ARM chips running Windows match or beat x86? Since that was the entire supposition is that ARM chips are inferior to x86. If you're deadset on only Windows mattering there, for whatever reason you're doing that.
There's a reason I said MacBook Pros being used as workstations, stuff like the Max and Ultra based chips, since it would obviously be silly to compare all MacBook sales. Could add in Mac Studio (and Mac Pro since they do have M chips now) as well if you really wanted to compare. Frankly I don't care at all about that, was merely pointing out that the claim that ARM chips are only used for simple tasks, and will never be used for workstation or server is just bafflingly ignorant of where things have been for years.
Also, Nvidia is now sellling an AI workstation that uses their ARM based chips. I haven't see how their CPUs do and the GPU is doing the heavy lifting there anyway. Which is also the case with a lot of workstations, making these comparisons even further muddled, but also further representing that x86 vs ARM is not an inherent issue for most pro workloads these days.
All these though experiments how AARCH64 might seep into more market segments over time are obviously interesting to some — but perhaps to a lesser degree to readers who come here for Shimada Peak news.
From a few months ago: https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-epyc-9965-ampereoneBecause you're saying they're only good for simple tasks, yet they've been running as powerful of software as x86 for years now, between Apple's M chips, the various server based chips, and even Windows (although its still lackluster in many regards there, but I think there's native Adobe ARM on Windows apps now). There's been high core count server ARM chips for years already.
From 4+ years ago:
The Ampere Altra Review: 2x 80 Cores Arm Server Performance Monster
www.anandtech.com
And I believe multiple major server/cloud companies (Amazon, I forget who all else) have been making their own ARM server chips as well. Yet you're wondering if ARM will ever be used for that? Its already happening.
I didn't present market figures, and I honestly couldn't care less, was just pointing out that you're likely wrong on both of your main points, that AMD is dominating HEDT (they are certainly dominating Intel there in most if not all performance metrics, but Intel is barely even competing in that market these days, both are just pushing their server chips to that market anyways, but Intel is still probably outselling AMD there simply because of inertia from their overall dominant market position and most of the HEDT market being through OEMs like Dell that offer mostly Intel based workstations).
Wouldn't it be until ARM chips running Windows match or beat x86? Since that was the entire supposition is that ARM chips are inferior to x86. If you're deadset on only Windows mattering there, for whatever reason you're doing that.
There's a reason I said MacBook Pros being used as workstations, stuff like the Max and Ultra based chips, since it would obviously be silly to compare all MacBook sales. Could add in Mac Studio (and Mac Pro since they do have M chips now) as well if you really wanted to compare. Frankly I don't care at all about that, was merely pointing out that the claim that ARM chips are only used for simple tasks, and will never be used for workstation or server is just bafflingly ignorant of where things have been for years.
Also, Nvidia is now sellling an AI workstation that uses their ARM based chips. I haven't see how their CPUs do and the GPU is doing the heavy lifting there anyway. Which is also the case with a lot of workstations, making these comparisons even further muddled, but also further representing that x86 vs ARM is not an inherent issue for most pro workloads these days.
Ampere is getting beaten very badly by this review. Not sure how anyone would pick this over Turin?
Neither small-core-spam server chips nor mobile SoCs with soldered RAM belong into a discussion of workstations.
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