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#### Agent-47

##### Senior member
See, that is why you cannot do this. Take for example 7700K:

7700K @4.8 GHz = 3893, 811.0/GHz
7700K @4.2 GHz = 3552, 845.7/GHz

So we have a situation where 7700K's IPC is 4% higher than.. 7700K. This is why you cannot derive ST numbers by simply dividing MT numbers by core count.
you qouted the 8 core results which had similar clocks. IPC do not scale linearly at higher clocks, but i scaled down, so if my scores were biased, they were biased towards intel marginally

also the more important results are the 4c and even the 6 core. the 6 core was clocked similarly and still points towards the same result
6c-> amd@3.3 = 2545 intel@3.4 = 2645 or amd 5% slower clock for clock.
4c-> amd@3.2 = 2544 intel@4.2 = 3552 or amd 6% slower clock for clock.

#### lolfail9001

##### Golden Member
See, that is why you cannot do this. Take for example 7700K:
What is 7700k's 4 core turbo bin? 3dmark physics is load light enough for generally all CPUs to use their max turbo bin. Napkin math suggests that it should 4.4Ghz.
The stock 6800K is probably running at a turbo of 3.6GHz.
3.5Ghz, actually, checked wiki.

#### HurleyBird

##### Platinum Member
So we have a situation where 7700K's IPC is 4% higher than.. 7700K. This is why you cannot derive ST numbers by simply dividing MT numbers by core count.
That's more of a good example of why you can't take the reported frequency on some graph at face value in the age of turbo clocks, and maybe the dangers of mixing and matching test environments too. In general, the stock results probably have less uncertainty because we can assume certain things about how turbo is behaving.

#### Crumpet

##### Senior member
VideoCardz.com is claiming that those benchmarks are done on - ASUS B350 PRIME PLUS motherboard

#### Agent-47

##### Senior member
What is 7700k's 4 core turbo bin? 3dmark physics is load light enough for generally all CPUs to use their max turbo bin. Napkin math suggests that it should 4.4Ghz.

3.5Ghz, actually, checked wiki.
does TH run benches with turbo active? its a little strange if they do because than the stated clocks are misleading considering overclocked CPUs do not turbo any higher.

if so, in these benchmarks zen is faster than BWE and 1.5% slower than SK.

#### lopri

##### Elite Member
That's more of a good example of why you can't take the reported frequency on some graph at face value in the age of turbo clocks, and maybe the dangers of mixing and matching test environments too. In general, the stock results probably have less uncertainty because we can assume certain things about how turbo is behaving.
I am in agreement. That just adds to the reason why the 2nd graph is silly and misleading.

#### HurleyBird

##### Platinum Member
I am in agreement. That just adds to the reason why the 2nd graph is silly and misleading.
I agree that it is silly and misleading. If all processors involved had the same number of cores/threads then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.

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#### lolfail9001

##### Golden Member
does TH run benches with turbo active? its a little strange if they do because than the stated clocks are misleading considering overclocked CPUs do not turbo any higher.
Well, if they run them in stock, then they should.
What wiki?
Wikipedia, it usually has a good track record on these.

#### CatMerc

##### Golden Member
Looks like all but the 8 core non OC are running at 4GHz. Probably XFR at work.

20249 / 8 (cores) / 4 (GHz) = 632.7

Now if we plop those numbers onto the 4 and 6 core, we get...
632.7*6*4 = 15,184 --- The score in the benchmark is 15,271
632.7*4*4 = 10,123 --- The score in the benchmark is 10,177

The only chip that doesn't line up is the 8 core without the 4GHz OC.
17,878 / (632.7*8) = 3.53GHz

Edit:
That implies a near 100% linear scaling, which is somewhat difficult to accept. Not impossible depending on other factors, but very rare indeed. Clearly the Intel ones do not scale linearly.

Thinking about it SMT might also factor into it and I have no idea how that works out.
Well, taking into account that the 6900K scored about 13% less than my calculations would predict, meaning there's 13% penalty for two extra cores, I worked back to get the 6 core clockspeed.

3.56GHz, which oddly lines up with the 8 core non OC speed I calculated.
Could be we just found the all core turbo of Ryzen.

(18,961 / 6 / 4.2) = 741.7
741.7 * 8 * 3.5 (all core turbo) = 21,067
21,067 / 18,635 = 1.13

Ryzen 6 Core:
15,271 / (632.7 * 6 * 1.13) = 3.56GHz

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#### HurleyBird

##### Platinum Member
Wikipedia, it usually has a good track record on these.
I checked Wikipedia, and it lists 3.6GHz, but as far as I can tell it does not say how many cores that is. Because the base frequency is only 3.4GHz, I'm assuming it's all cores, but I could be wrong.

#### lopri

##### Elite Member
you qouted the 8 core results which had similar clocks. IPC do not scale linearly at higher clocks,
Neither does throughput per core. (and what 8 core results? I initially used a 7700K in my example)

#### CentroX

##### Senior member
VideoCardz.com is claiming that those benchmarks are done on - ASUS B350 PRIME PLUS motherboard
isn't those cards lacking chipset cooling?

#### CentroX

##### Senior member
debating if I should buy this or the asus x370 one.

#### lopri

##### Elite Member
Looks like all but the 8 core non OC are running at 4GHz. Probably XFR at work.

20249 / 8 (cores) / 4 (GHz) = 632.7

Now if we plop those numbers onto the 4 and 6 core, we get...
632.7*6*4 = 15,184 --- The score in the benchmark is 15,271
632.7*4*4 = 10,123 --- The score in the benchmark is 10,177

The only chip that doesn't line up is the 8 core without the 4GHz OC.
17,878 / (632.7*8) = 3.53GHz
That implies a near 100% linear scaling, which is somewhat difficult to accept. Not impossible depending on other factors, but very rare indeed. Clearly the Intel ones do not scale linearly.

Thinking about it SMT might also factor into it and I have no idea how that works out.

#### Crumpet

##### Senior member
I'm kind of interested in Asus's 3d printing mounts on the top end motherboards, so that may sway it for me. I have a good friend with a good quality 3d printer, so the ability to make my own mount may swing it. Especially if I can design a shroud that holds a CPU cooling fan over an AIO waterblock for VRM cooling.

#### Arachnotronic

##### Lifer
What is 7700k's 4 core turbo bin? 3dmark physics is load light enough for generally all CPUs to use their max turbo bin. Napkin math suggests that it should 4.4Ghz.

3.5Ghz, actually, checked wiki.
4 core turbo on 7700K is 4.4GHz.

#### CatMerc

##### Golden Member
That implies a near 100% linear scaling, which is somewhat difficult to accept. Not impossible depending on other factors, but very rare indeed. Clearly the Intel ones do not scale linearly.

Thinking about it SMT might also factor into it and I have no idea how that works out.
Well, taking into account that the 6900K scored about 13% less than my calculations would predict, meaning there's 13% penalty for two extra cores, I worked back to get the 6 core clockspeed.

3.56GHz, which oddly lines up with the 8 core non OC speed I calculated.
Could be we just found the all core turbo of Ryzen.

(18,961 / 6 / 4.2) = 741.7
741.7 * 8 * 3.5 (all core turbo) = 21,067
21,067 / 18,635 = 1.13

Ryzen 6 Core:
15,271 / (632.7 * 6 * 1.13) = 3.56GHz

#### lolfail9001

##### Golden Member
4 core turbo on 7700K is 4.4GHz.
And now the difference in "IPC" (not IPC) is 0.4%. Napkin math works!

Arachnotronic

#### Agent-47

##### Senior member
That implies a near 100% linear scaling, which is somewhat difficult to accept. .

7700K @4.8 GHz = 3893/4.8, 811.0/GHz
7700K @ststockHz = 3552/4.4, 807/GHz

Or a 0.5 % difference. That's winthing uncertainty bounds.

#### CatMerc

##### Golden Member

7700K @4.8 GHz = 3893/4.8, 811.0/GHz
7700K @ststockHz = 3552/4.4, 807/GHz

Or a 0.5 % difference. That's winthing uncertainty bounds.
Core scaling, rather than clock scaling. See my second post.

psolord

#### USER8000

##### Golden Member

The Core i5 5775C is around 11000 according to the 3DMark website,so Ryzen 5 1400X might score around the same.

If AMD has truly matched Broadwell for IPC,that is a massive jump in IPC over the AM3+ Piledriver CPUs.

#### Agent-47

##### Senior member
Core scaling, rather than clock scaling. See my second post.
Yes. I agree with that.

That's why I compared cpuz with same number of core to compute IPC difference .

6c-> amd@3.3 = 2545 intel@3.4 = 2645 or amd 5% slower clock for clock.
4c-> amd@3.2 = 2544 intel@4.2 = 3552 or amd 6% slower clock for clock.

Granted a 6c ryzen with +100mhz clock scores same as the 4c ryzen, but the percentage nonlinearity is minimal and technically eliminating under the assumption that both and and Intel scales similarly with number of cores.

If you factor in boost clocks the difference is less than 2%.

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