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AMD Ryzen 5000 Builders Thread

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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
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Anyone recommend a good primer on ryzen master and zen OC? This looks super complicated compared to intel's settings.
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,770
878
136
At this rate I'm pretty sure Dark Hero has UEFI bugs with regards to PBO. If I even just enable PBO and leave all the settings on stock/auto, the system will either:

1) fail to post
2) bsod under load like cinebench
3) silent reboot under load

If anyone else has a dark hero on 3003 and has a chance to experiment with PBO, let me know your outcome.

I've tried too many different ways of enabling and configuring PBO for it to be my fault.
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,171
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Anyone recommend a good primer on ryzen master and zen OC? This looks super complicated compared to intel's settings.
I remember someone at some point saying that PBO is so good at dynamically boosting, that for most people, you should just turn it on (rather than Auto OC or Manual) in Ryzen Master, restart, and forget about. As you can see in the post above this, that doesn't work for everyone

That being said, I'm curious to see what tips and tricks people might have for Zen 3, as I just snagged a 5600X today and may be a good time to do some further learning!
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,770
878
136
Have you just tried enabling PBO with Ryzen Master?
Why would I do that?
























I guess I'll try it since I have nothing better to do with that system for now.

I've been trying PBO configurations via bios, both in the AMD overclocking menu and the ASUS menu.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
I remember someone at some point saying that PBO is so good at dynamically boosting, that for most people, you should just turn it on (rather than Auto OC or Manual) in Ryzen Master, restart, and forget about. As you can see in the post above this, that doesn't work for everyone

That being said, I'm curious to see what tips and tricks people might have for Zen 3, as I just snagged a 5600X today and may be a good time to do some further learning!
I turned it on last night, looks like the max is by your MB? I'm at 500/210/280 I heard some people talking about offset curves for PBO and even individual core tuning, but I can't find that in ryzen master. The clock is stuck at 3700.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
3,026
4,072
136
I remember someone at some point saying that PBO is so good at dynamically boosting, that for most people, you should just turn it on (rather than Auto OC or Manual) in Ryzen Master, restart, and forget about.
You sure? I remember that as PB2 (which is stock) is so good at dynamically boosting that you needn't worry about OC to begin with. Doing static OC lowers ST but allows for a higher all core clock (which PB2 can't reach due to the stock limits and PBO fails to make use of as well as a static OC). Though @DrMrLordX may want to chime in on that topic.
 
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Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
638
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Meh. I'm in need of a CPU upgrade from my 6700k. No Ryzen 5000 in stock in the UK... No Crosshair dark hero boards either....

Looks like I'll be going for a 11900k, as at least there'll be actual stock to buy.

Hate paper launches.
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,770
878
136
You sure? I remember that as PB2 (which is stock) is so good at dynamically boosting that you needn't worry about OC to begin with. Doing static OC lowers ST but allows for a higher all core clock (which PB2 can't reach due to the stock limits and PBO fails to make use of as well as a static OC). Though @DrMrLordX may want to chime in on that topic.
PBO isn't a static overclock. PB2 (Precision Boost 2) stock behavior is altered with PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive) to allow offsets for higher clocks and power limits. It's a modification of the default behaviour, not a replacement.

You are correct that setting a static all core overclock means you lose precision boost entirely.

Except for the Dark Hero motherboard.
 

Dave3000

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2011
1,113
46
91
At this rate I'm pretty sure Dark Hero has UEFI bugs with regards to PBO. If I even just enable PBO and leave all the settings on stock/auto, the system will either:

1) fail to post
2) bsod under load like cinebench
3) silent reboot under load

If anyone else has a dark hero on 3003 and has a chance to experiment with PBO, let me know your outcome.

I've tried too many different ways of enabling and configuring PBO for it to be my fault.
If you are using faster than DDR4-3200 memory, I suggest setting it memory speed to 3200 in the BIOS. Do you still get these issues with memory running at 3200?
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,171
1,746
106
You sure? I remember that as PB2 (which is stock) is so good at dynamically boosting that you needn't worry about OC to begin with. Doing static OC lowers ST but allows for a higher all core clock (which PB2 can't reach due to the stock limits and PBO fails to make use of as well as a static OC). Though @DrMrLordX may want to chime in on that topic.
IIRC PBO offers modified Precision Boost 2 settings that provide additional benefit which is why that person made the recommendation, but I can't recall exactly.
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,770
878
136
If you are using faster than DDR4-3200 memory, I suggest setting it memory speed to 3200 in the BIOS. Do you still get these issues with memory running at 3200?
I have been using higher speeds than 3200, but 20 pass memtest86 stable configurations.

I will try reverting memory to a 3200 config before trying PBO again.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
18,516
7,385
136
You sure? I remember that as PB2 (which is stock) is so good at dynamically boosting that you needn't worry about OC to begin with. Doing static OC lowers ST but allows for a higher all core clock (which PB2 can't reach due to the stock limits and PBO fails to make use of as well as a static OC). Though @DrMrLordX may want to chime in on that topic.
I can only add dated information since I'm on a 3900X, and PBO never really worked for me. Might be down to my CPU sample and board.

On Matisse, for me, PBO would only maybe raise clocks in superficially ST situations, such as when running 1T CBR20 or similar, I could get PBO to produce higher ST clocks than stock if I used the right LLC settings. Generally, PBO liked high LLC settings for whatever reason. Using low LLC settings and no voltage offsets of any kind with default settings othewise (no OC, no PBO) gave me nearly the same ST clocks as PBO + high LLC. I would get 4.6 GHz more-reliably with PBO whereas I would get 4.55 - 4.6 GHz with default depending on the application.

In anything MT, PBO was a disaster for me. Lower clocks, stupid voltage settings, yech. Using default settings + low LLC + negative voltage offset gave me the highest "auto" MT clocks of any settings I tried, and this generally applied for any application using 3T or more. PBO didn't even help in old-arsed games like Team Fortress 2 or Destiny 2 that don't spawn many threads.

For anything that was maybe 4T or more, static OC won the day on my system, since I could manage 4.35 GHz - 4.4 GHz (depending on the application) constantly, which overall gave the best performance. It did preclude boosting on those occasions where an application might allow it, but the boost periods were so short and inconsistent that it just wasn't worth the trouble.

Vermeer is a different animal. It has a much better boost algo by default, and PBO looks far more-sophisticated. I just don't have any desire to buy into Vermeer (waiting for Raphael) so I have no experience with the new algos. From the looks of benchmarks of the 5600X OCed and stock, it looks like boosts beyond 4.7 GHz on multiple cores happen pretty often in games and maybe some other applications. Static OC is not the winning option here except maybe in productivity apps that use all cores constantly for long periods of time. I will have to read more in-depth articles on PBO performance to judge how well Vermeer can raise its own clock limits given a bigger power budget; Vermeer does seem to lose a lot of MT performance @ stock thanks to its 142W limit.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
18,516
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Looks like I'll be going for a 11900k, as at least there'll be actual stock to buy.
Wrong thread for that, but don't be so sure. Launch stock of the 9900k, 9900ks, and 10900k have all been spotty (9900ks was infamously difficult to buy). 11900k stocks may also be low for a few months after launch. Intel pulled this launch forward by 2 months, so . . . yeah. We'll see how that goes.
 
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KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,238
337
126
Wrong thread for that, but don't be so sure. Launch stock of the 9900k, 9900ks, and 10900k have all been spotty (9900ks was infamously difficult to buy). 11900k stocks may also be low for a few months after launch. Intel pulled this launch forward by 2 months, so . . . yeah. We'll see how that goes.
Agree with that. It took a lot of waiting to snag a 9900k and I could never find a 10900k when I was building my HTPC. Finally settled for a 10700k and even to this day it's much easier to get a 10850k. Intel is limited themselves with wafers and the majority go to laptop parts.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
3,026
4,072
136
IIRC PBO offers modified Precision Boost 2 settings that provide additional benefit which is why that person made the recommendation, but I can't recall exactly.
Yeah, PBO is for tweaking the PB2 stock settings. Those are PPT (Package Power Tracking, essentially what most would think of when reading "TDP"), TDC (Thermal Design Current, limited by cooling solution) and EDC (Electrical Design Current, limited by VRMs).
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
10,550
4,501
136
I performed an exorcism on my PC the other day and removed the evil Nvidia card. I had to wait for my memory sticks to arrive before I would post a photo. I'm still working on a color match for the memory and the RX on the GPU.

View attachment 35796

Parts list:
AMD Ryzen 9 5900x
MSI MPG B550 GAMING CARBON WIFI
G.SKIll Trident Z Neo 32GB(4x8)
XFX-Speedster MERC319 AMD Radeon RX6800
Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD 500GB NVMe boot drive
Samsung 860 EVO 1TB storage drive
Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic
Corsair iCUE H150i Elite Capellix AIO
Corsair QL Series, Ql120 RGB,120m(3-pack)
SEASONIC FOCUS+ 850w

Switching from 2 sticks of b-die to 4 sticks was/is an adventure. I never knew how easy I had it with 2 sticks until I tried 4. I won't go back, but the 2 stick easy tweaking will be missed.

4 sticks defaults to gear down mode. Trying to run with CR1 and GDM disabled is unstable. So far it's looking like CR2 is the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to effecting latency. I'm still playing around with the memory, but I'll settle for 3600 CL14 if I have to.

View attachment 35797
Sweet rig!! Your B-Die sticks are better quality than mine. I can do CR1 with Cas16, or CR2 with Cas15, but no Cas14 with quad sticks :(
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
15,312
6,099
146
Meh. I'm in need of a CPU upgrade from my 6700k. No Ryzen 5000 in stock in the UK... No Crosshair dark hero boards either....

Looks like I'll be going for a 11900k, as at least there'll be actual stock to buy.

Hate paper launches.
Two of the "paper launch" CPUs are in Amazon's top 10 CPU category (with another one at #18).

That's pretty unusual for a product that nobody can buy. Extremely tight supply based on multiple factors (demand, Covid, holidays) is not the same as a "paper launch".

Also, didn't you say you wouldn't buy a Ryzen 5000 series because it was a "dead platform"? Oh yeah, you did say that: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-current-and-future-lakes-rapids-thread.2509080/page-316#post-40356891

If you don't want to buy AMD, then wait for Alder Lake and don't come into the Ryzen builders thread with junk claims when your motives are clear.
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,171
1,746
106
Two of the "paper launch" CPUs are in Amazon's top 10 CPU category (with another one at #18).

That's pretty unusual for a product that nobody can buy. Extremely tight supply based on multiple factors (demand, Covid, holidays) is not the same as a "paper launch".
Yup. It's seeming that it's just demand exceeding supply -- supply is actually good if my local MicroCenter is any indication. Went in to get a 5600X 15 minutes after open, had to wait in line in the CPU section to get one. Sales rep said that they're getting shipments 3 times a week and they sell out within hours. He quoted "hundreds" of Zen 3 CPUs per week being shipped to them, mostly 5800X with some 5600X and very few 5900X or 5950X.

As an example of why this is likely high demand rather than low supply, it should be noted that this particular MicroCenter also has very limited supply of memory sticks, specifically >3200MT/s sticks. Rep also noted that those fly off the shelf. I think with it being the holidays, plus pandemic gaming surge, plus perhaps some pandemic supply chain complications, this is clearly more than just a "paper launch."

They also had the 6900XT in stock, along with a couple of 6800s. I did not indulge myself on the RDNA2 cards for now...
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,770
878
136
On a memory related note, I had a kit of TridentZ 2x16GB 3200CL14 B-die and TridentZ 2x8GB 3600CL15 B-die that I have been testing various configs.

After a while I came to the conclusion they aren't working well enough to get 3800-4000 stable.

The 2x8 3600Cl15 kit would post (most of the time) at 4000CL16 1:1 but was finicky and would have a memtest error every once in a while.

I ordered a kit of 2x16GB 4000CL16 TridentZ RGB from newegg and popped it in this morning - Immediate post after enabling the D.O.C.P. profile and switching fclk to 2000. I'm memtesting it now on the profile timings to get a stable baseline but it already looks like it's going to work significantly better than my old TridentZ kits.

The lesson? I guess if you want high clocks buy better wam.
 
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Det0x

Senior member
Sep 11, 2014
593
880
136
Switching from 2 sticks of b-die to 4 sticks was/is an adventure. I never knew how easy I had it with 2 sticks until I tried 4. I won't go back, but the 2 stick easy tweaking will be missed.

4 sticks defaults to gear down mode. Trying to run with CR1 and GDM disabled is unstable. So far it's looking like CR2 is the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to effecting latency. I'm still playing around with the memory, but I'll settle for 3600 CL14 if I have to.

View attachment 35797
Welcome to my world :D

I'm just happy ive found my CL14 memtest 1000% stable settings with 4x8gigs @ 1900mhz IF 1:1

If some of you other guys want to start playing around with the curve optimizer, i can recommend this as a starting point if you are using a Asus motherboard:

Make sure you have Global C-state Control disabled in bios before you start.

In Extreme Tweaker:

  • PBO Fmax Enhancer: disabled (dont work with 5000 series)
  • PBO: manual: 280/235/245
  • Overdrive: +50 mhz
  • CPU SoC voltage: Manual 1.08 -1.10v
  • CPU Core Voltage: Offset 0.01 -0.06v (You want the least amount of offset as possible. Most will be @ +0.05v)
In Digi+
  • Max all the current limits
  • Disable all the spread spectrums
  • SOC LLC: Level 3
  • CPU LLC: Level 1 or Level 2
Note: You want the all core voltage to be as low as possible to get the highest all core boost that you can. My logic here is that I am using core voltage offset to maintain enough voltage for a stable single core boost, but the lowest LLC so that on all core loads the core voltage will droop and allow a higher all core boost clock.

In Advanced> AMD Overclocking > PBO
  • Set to advanced
  • Set limits to "Motherboard"
  • Curve optimizer: All core, Negative, 15-25 (can start at 15 and work your way down to 25 if system is stable)*

If you have a 56/57/58/5900X You use the same settings but increase the overdrive setting from 50mhz to as high as your single core test will allow. Most CPU's will max out at a sustained 5050mhz and 5125mhz single core boost.

To test single core boost clock:

  1. Open HWinfo64, make sure you have the "Effective Core clock" registers exposed.
  2. Make a note of the top 4 ranked cores.
  3. Open task manager and to to the "Details" tab.
  4. Open CB R20, start a single core run
  5. In Task manager's details, right click Cinebench.exe, click "Select Affinity", uncheck the top box to de-select all cores, put a check box next to core 0, then click ok. (You will have to re-select the affinity every run unless you have an application such as Process lasso that will automatically apply core affinity.)
  6. In HWinfo, Look at the clock speed for core zero. It should be at your max boost + overdrive (for a 5950X using the settings above, that would be 5050mhz max boost + 50 mhz overdrive = 5100mhz).
  7. In HWinfo, monitor the "Effective core speed" It should be very near reported core clock. For example, the core clock is at 5100mhz, the effective core clock should be 5085mhz or higher. Generally effective clock will be reported a bit lower than core clock because of how it is calculated. (which is why the effective core clock really needs a sustained load to be close to accurate).
  8. Monitor Core voltage and effective core VID. Your core voltage should be 1.5v- 1.525v, and effective VID 1.485v - 1.506v. You really don't want core voltage to exceed 1.525v for sustained period (spikes are fine and normal) This is why your core voltage offset shouldn't exceed +0.05 - 0.07v.
  9. You should be able to complete at least 5-6 back to back runs of CB R20 without crashing.
Once that is done, you move on to the next three of the top rated cores and make sure they are stable. Though it is likely that not all of the top four cores will boost as high at core 0.

Once that is complete move on to all core load stress testing. If an all core workload does not pass stress testing, increase core LLC to achieve stability.

*edit*

* = You can start with -15 on core optimizer with cpu voltage on auto, then work the negative curve offset down until you have all core instability, or until the all core boost clock stops increasing. There is no point in running the neg curve value beyond whatever gives you max all core boost..

Once you have your all core set to highest stable neg offset / highest all core boost clock, Move on to single core.

Open cinebench and open task manager. Start a single core run, then on task manager's details tab, find cinebench, right click and set cpu affinity. Leave only core zero checked.

In hwinfo, click the clock to reset the counters after the single core run starts, and after you set cpu affinity. Then monitor the core 0 effective clock. It should be very close or the same as core frequency.

If the run fails, Start adding positive cpu core voltage offset to get your single core stable.

Once done stability test with IBT linpack on very high/high for 10 passes, Blender Benchmark (all scenes), 1 hour of P95 blend with AVX disabled.
 

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Last edited:

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,770
878
136
Welcome to my world :D

I'm just happy ive found my CL14 memtest 1000% stable settings with 4x8gigs @ 1900mhz IF 1:1

If some of you other guys want to start playing around with the curve optimizer, i can recommend this as a starting point if you are using a Asus motherboard:

SNIP
This is a fantastic writeup and much more useful than anything else I've found to date. Thank you for the comprehensive instructions.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,041
558
126
Welcome to my world :D

I'm just happy ive found my CL14 memtest 1000% stable settings with 4x8gigs @ 1900mhz IF 1:1

If some of you other guys want to start playing around with the curve optimizer, i can recommend this as a starting point if you are using a Asus motherboard:

Make sure you have Global C-state Control disabled in bios before you start.

In Extreme Tweaker:
  • PBO: manual: 280/235/245
  • Overdrive: +50 mhz
  • CPU SoC voltage: Manual 1.08 -1.10v
  • CPU Core Voltage: Offset 0.01 -0.06v (You want the least amount of offset as possible. Most will be @ +0.05v)
In Digi+
  • Max all the current limits
  • Disable all the spread spectrums
  • SOC LLC: Level 3
  • CPU LLC: Level 1 or Level 2
Note: You want the all core voltage to be as low as possible to get the highest all core boost that you can. My logic here is that I am using core voltage offset to maintain enough voltage for a stable single core boost, but the lowest LLC so that on all core loads the core voltage will droop and allow a higher all core boost clock.

In Advanced> AMD Overclocking > PBO
  • Set to advanced
  • Set limits to "Motherboard"
  • Curve optimizer: All core, Negative, 25

If you have a 56/57/58/5900X You use the same settings but increase the overdrive setting from 50mhz to as high as your single core test will allow. Most CPU's will max out at a sustained 5050mhz and 5125mhz single core boost.

To test single core boost clock:

  1. Open HWinfo64, make sure you have the "Effective Core clock" registers exposed.
  2. Make a note of the top 4 ranked cores.
  3. Open task manager and to to the "Details" tab.
  4. Open CB R20, start a single core run
  5. In Task manager's details, right click Cinebench.exe, click "Select Affinity", uncheck the top box to de-select all cores, put a check box next to core 0, then click ok. (You will have to re-select the affinity every run unless you have an application such as Process lasso that will automatically apply core affinity.)
  6. In HWinfo, Look at the clock speed for core zero. It should be at your max boost + overdrive (for a 5950X using the settings above, that would be 5050mhz max boost + 50 mhz overdrive = 5100mhz).
  7. In HWinfo, monitor the "Effective core speed" It should be very near reported core clock. For example, the core clock is at 5100mhz, the effective core clock should be 5085mhz or higher. Generally effective clock will be reported a bit lower than core clock because of how it is calculated. (which is why the effective core clock really needs a sustained load to be close to accurate).
  8. Monitor Core voltage and effective core VID. Your core voltage should be 1.5v- 1.525v, and effective VID 1.485v - 1.506v. You really don't want core voltage to exceed 1.525v for sustained period (spikes are fine and normal) This is why your core voltage offset shouldn't exceed +0.05 - 0.07v.
  9. You should be able to complete at least 5-6 back to back runs of CB R20 without crashing.
Once that is done, you move on to the next three of the top rated cores and make sure they are stable. Though it is likely that not all of the top four cores will boost as high at core 0.

Once that is complete move on to all core load stress testing. If an all core workload does not pass stress testing, increase core LLC to achieve stability.
Excellent guide! Thanks for posting.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,745
74
91
Anyone recommend a good primer on ryzen master and zen OC? This looks super complicated compared to intel's settings.
An AT guide for Ryzen APU but still good basic info:

Robert Hallock AMD's Technical Marketing Director:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/b8a5ft More info on PBO

Basically the newer Ryzen cpu's are already scraping almost every bit of headroom left for overclocking with precision boost and PBO on auto/enabled. I think some motherboards also have an auto oc setting like MSI's game boost but there are some concerns about how safe it is to turn it on.
 
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amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,171
1,746
106
Tomorrow is D-day for my system, as the 5600X attacks my system and hopes to push out the 3600. Once installed and booted my first test is actually going to be checking if the IMC in the 5600X will permit my G.skill Trident Z RGB 3200CL16 RAM to o/c... at all. Was never able to do much of anything beyond XMP standard with it, and felt it might be IMC related. We shall see.

If not able to hit at least 3400, looks like I'll be making a RAM purchase soon. And if I make a RAM purchase, I'm probably going to buy an m.2 Sabrent Rocket or similar. And if I'm going to buy that, I may as well grab an ITX mobo and SFF case to put the 3600 and my old 2.5" SATA SSD in, for which I'll need to buy a cheap GPU for the HTPC...

Gents, it's going to be a fun holiday season.
 

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