Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[tamz_msc]

Efficency has always been the main topic once we re talking of mobile devices, and in this case it s counter productive to use the CPU at full frequency on ST since it would exceed 15W and hence reduce battery life uselessly.

Now if you dont bother for this metric you can always set a power profile that would negate this limitation, but then the advertised run times would be no more accurate.

I'm not discussing efficiency. What you are saying is akin to saying that range is the main topic when discussing an EV. I want to talk about it's acceleration, not range.

Do you see the analogy?

 

[moinmoin]

You literally have the data right here posted in this very thread.

I literally have the supposed sluggishness on my lap right now, even on the older Renoir gen, and you're spouting pure hogwash calling it sluggish.

I'm not discussing efficiency. What you are saying is akin to saying that range is the main topic when discussing an EV. I want to talk about it's acceleration, not range.

Do you see the analogy?

Yeah, after all who cares about ranges of EVs?

 

[tamz_msc]

I literally have the supposed sluggishness on my lap right now, even on the older Renoir gen, and you're spouting pure hogwash calling it

Renoir drops as much as 40% in Geekbench while on battery.

Yeah, after all who cares about ranges of EVs?

One can care about both. But caring about one thing doesn't diminish the importance of the other.

 

[Abwx]

I'm not discussing efficiency. What you are saying is akin to saying that range is the main topic when discussing an EV. I want to talk about it's acceleration, not range.

Do you see the analogy?

His laptop use a 6850U, that is, a 15-28W SKU, on battery it s likely set to 15W for the reasons explained ad nauseam...

At 1361 pts ST GB it s barely slower than the 1521 pts when plugged, that s about 10% difference and not noticeable at all and moreover more efficient and better performing than any Intel SKU at this power, so what are you complaining about actually..?
That it s much better than your own laptop.??.

 

[moinmoin]

Renoir drops as much as 40% in Geekbench while on battery.

Not so surprising once you know that Geekbench has a lot of short benchmarks. Works as intended.

Better question would be if that behavior diminish performance in more steady workloads like e.g. games, and it doesn't.

And if one really doesn't like that delayed boosting behavior it's possible to turn it off (e.g. with ryzenadj).

One can care about both. But caring about one thing doesn't diminish the importance of the other.

Generally true. But we are in a thread about mobile, not desktop chips. Personally I'm not interested in DTR, or EVs with high acceleration but short range.

 

[tamz_msc]

His laptop use a 6850U, that is, a 15-28W SKU, on battery it s likely set to 15W for the reasons explained ad nauseam...

At 1361 pts ST GB it s barely slower than the 1521 pts when plugged, that s about 10% difference and not noticeable at all and moreover more efficient and better performing than any Intel SKU at this power, so what are you complaining about actually..?
That it s much better than your own laptop.??.

If it's 10% in Geekbench, it will be noticeable in other benchmarks that are more real-world oriented.

And I doubt that short duration power limit is 15 W on battery.

 

[tamz_msc]

Not so surprising once you know that Geekbench has a lot of short benchmarks. Works as intended.

Better question would be if that behavior diminish performance in more steady workloads like e.g. games, and it doesn't.

Nah, it means that AMD design goals is to sacrifice performance for battery life, even when told by the user not to.

Games are irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[moinmoin]

even when told by the user not to.

False. As I wrote users can turn it of if they want to. ryzenadj, and likely other tools I don't know can do that.

 

[tamz_msc]

False. As I wrote users can turn it of if they want to. ryzenadj, and likely other tools I don't know can do that.

I'm not talking about the delayed boost at all. That thing is absent from Cezanne onward.

 

[moinmoin]

I'm not talking about the delayed boost at all. That thing is absent from Cezanne onward.

What would cause your delta then? There doesn't appear to be different limits between battery and plugged in.

In any case ryzenadj allows switching between the built-in power-saving and max-performance modi that are otherwise automatically activated on battery and plugging in respectively, regardless of what that entails in the respective mobile Zen gen.

 

[tamz_msc]

What would cause your delta then? There doesn't appear to be different limits between battery and plugged in.

In any case ryzenadj allows switching between the built-in power-saving and max-performance modi that are otherwise automatically activated on battery and plugging in respectively, regardless of what that entails in the respective mobile Zen gen.

Again you fail to understand that boosting behavior doesn't only depend on power limits.

 

[jpiniero]

AMD Ryzen 7 7736U integrated Radeon 680M achieves Playstation 4 level graphics, runs God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Final Fantasy XV at 1080p30

The Ryzen 7 7736U laptop would consume just 60 W when running games compared to 110 to 145 W on the PS4 while offering a similar level of performance. Integrated graphics have come a long way since the launch of the Sony console 10 years ago.

www.notebookcheck.net

Now there's a 7736U as well. Except this is technically slower than the 7735U. It's probably a straight rebrand of the 6800U while the 7735U is of the 6850U.

 

[LightningZ71]

Both 7735u and 7736u are listed on the AMD website. The 35 has a 50mhz advantage on boost clock with a fixed default tdp of 28w. The 36 has a configurable tdb from 15-28w. Both support the same memory speeds and the same 2200Mhz gpu clock. The 7736, according to the AMD site, is exactly a rebrand of the 6800u (jpiniero is correct). The 6850u also matches those specs. The Rembrandt "refresh" should just be named "rebrand" and any notable performance differences should be entirely related to tdp settings of the laptops and their thermal management capabilities. It would have been nice if AMD would have seen fit to "allow" an 8CU/4WGP configuration for the 6 core refresh, but that may be an exclusive Lenovo bin agreement for their Z series laptops.

 

[jpiniero]

https://www.amd.com/en/product/14306

Now there's a Rembrandt SKU with the IGP completely disabled.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Now there's a Rembrandt SKU with the IGP completely disabled.

HS chips usually have at least a Geforce 2050/3050/4050 paired with them anyway. No one will miss it (other than techies who want two for one).

 

[jpiniero]

HS chips usually have at least a Geforce 2050/3050/4050 paired with them anyway. No one will miss it (other than techies who want two for one).

It's useful for power saving.

 

[moinmoin]

https://www.amd.com/en/product/14306

Now there's a Rembrandt SKU with the IGP completely disabled.

"Product Line: AMD Ryzen™ 5 Processors with Radeon™ Graphics
(...)
Integrated Graphics: Yes
Graphics Model: Discrete Graphics Card Required"
🤔

AMD's spec pages are so messy it's ridiculous.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Integrated Graphics: Yes

They are not lying. It IS there in the silicon. Just non-functional

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I'm guessing these are for cheaper Gaming Laptops or Office Laptops with Geforce MX/RTX 2050.

But I do wonder if we'll see these in action, actually. AMD has a lot of SKUs but I barely see anything off the main ones being used on laptops. Case in point, the Ryzen 7335U.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Here's my history of looking at Ryzen laptops on Amazon:

Started noticing 2500U and 3500U at first.

After a while, there were plenty of gaming laptops with 4800H.

Then started seeing 5500U and 5700U laptops, a LOT.

Gaming laptops started using 5600H, 5800H, 5900HS and 5900HX a lot.

5600U and 5800U were rare and still are rare.

Lenovo laptops were the only ones that had 5850U.

Then started seeing a few gaming laptops with 6600H, 6800H and 6900HS. 6900HX was pretty rare to see.

Started noticing 5625U and 5825U laptops.

Notice how I didn't mention 6600U or 6800U. I saw almost no laptops using those.

Then started seeing a lot of 7520U laptops.

Gaming laptops have now gotten better with 7840H/HS. 7840U seems to be dominant in the thin laptop category.

Still haven't noticed any laptops using the Zen 4c CCD.

My theory is that AMD targets certain chips for certain countries/regions so they never make it to the USA or if they do, the volume is pathetically low and almost same as none.

 

[Abwx]

My theory is that AMD targets certain chips for certain countries/regions so they never make it to the USA or if they do, the volume is pathetically low and almost same as none.

AMD target nothing, they sell chips and it s up to the OEMs to decide where their products will be sold, or are you thinking that it s AMD deciding where Lenovo or HP should sell their laptops..?.

 

[Thunder 57]

Is i

Here's my history of looking at Ryzen laptops on Amazon:

Started noticing 2500U and 3500U at first.

After a while, there were plenty of gaming laptops with 4800H.

Then started seeing 5500U and 5700U laptops, a LOT.

Gaming laptops started using 5600H, 5800H, 5900HS and 5900HX a lot.

5600U and 5800U were rare and still are rare.

Lenovo laptops were the only ones that had 5850U.

Then started seeing a few gaming laptops with 6600H, 6800H and 6900HS. 6900HX was pretty rare to see.

Started noticing 5625U and 5825U laptops.

Notice how I didn't mention 6600U or 6800U. I saw almost no laptops using those.

Then started seeing a lot of 7520U laptops.

Gaming laptops have now gotten better with 7840H/HS. 7840U seems to be dominant in the thin laptop category.

Still haven't noticed any laptops using the Zen 4c CCD.

My theory is that AMD targets certain chips for certain countries/regions so they never make it to the USA or if they do, the volume is pathetically low and almost same as none.

I had a 3500U provided to me at work. A coworker with the same laptop said it wasn't as good as Intel because it came with a "Radeon CPU".

Do all of the H models still come with discrete graphics? I don't understand that. There is a market for high performance CPU's with iGPU's in laptops, at least IMHO. 35W used to be standard for laptops.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Do all of the H models still come with discrete graphics? I don't understand that. There is a market for high performance CPU's with iGPU's in laptops, at least IMHO. 35W used to be standard for laptops.

They do. Ryzen U and H share the same silicon, just with different power curve and TDP. AMD does have a >45W TDP mobile line-up with Dragon's Range, Z4 Desktop Silicon brought to Mobile for Desktop Replacement laptops. Dragon's Range has the same IGP as Z4 Desktop, which is 2 CU RDNA 2 on the IOD.

I had a 3500U provided to me at work. A coworker with the same laptop said it wasn't as good as Intel because it came with a "Radeon CPU".

There's still ton of bias against AMD in the laptop space. It's one where Intel marketing is still deeply ingrained into peoples heads.

 

[Thunder 57]

They do. Ryzen U and H share the same silicon, just with different power curve and TDP. AMD does have a >45W TDP mobile line-up with Dragon's Range, Z4 Desktop Silicon brought to Mobile for Desktop Replacement laptops. Dragon's Range has the same IGP as Z4 Desktop, which is 2 CU RDNA 2 on the IOD.

There's still ton of bias against AMD in the laptop space. It's one where Intel marketing is still deeply ingrained into peoples heads.

That's good to hear. I haven't checked lately. Not since Renoir came out probably. Back then all H models had discrete GPU's.

As for the bias, yes there sure is. What I thought was amusing though was he said "Radeon CPU". Not GPU, or AMD CPU. Radeon CPU.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Radeon CPU.

Millions of clueless shmucks like him keep the rest of us from enjoying rapid progress in the PC industry. If everyone recognized the superiority of AMD CPUs in terms of sheer value, Intel would've to work much, much harder to get competitive and that would set off a chain reaction where both CPU giants would get into a serious competitive war. But now? Intel keeps churning out space heating relative duds and still hasn't gone out of business which means they have no incentive to do really innovative stuff despite having the resources to actually do it.