Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[ahimsa42]

How many Cezanne laptops with 16GB RAM within that price bracket can you find in your country?
In my country(Slovakia) a big retailer offered only 2 models of HP ProBook 455 G8 for <900€ including VAT, the rest was >980€ including VAT.

edit: I am personally quite sceptical about the prices of Rembrandt.

a quick amazon search displayed a few models under $900 in the US. i will say that AMD made it hard with the zen2/zen3 mix on 5?00 CPU's.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I just wanted to say that I don't think It will be any better with Rembrandt. I think Rembrandt laptops will cost even more.

 

[ahimsa42]

I just wanted to say that I don't think It will be any better with Rembrandt. I think Rembrandt laptops will cost even more.

they will likely cost more but the big question is how much more & how available RMB laptops will be.

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

According to WCCFTECH the 6980HX will have a max. turbo of 5.0Ghz.

AMD To Unveil Ryzen 9 6980HX, Ryzen 9 6900HX & Ryzen 7 6800H Rembrandt APUs Along With Radeon RX 6850M XT Notebook GPU at CES 2022

AMD will be announcing the Rembrandt Ryzen 9 6980HX, Ryzen 9 6900HX, Ryzen 7 6800H APUs & Radeon RX 6850M XT GPUs at CES 2022.

wccftech.com

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

A picture of Rembrandt APU.
Videocardz

P.S. The GPU has only 5 memory chips, so It should be a RX 6700M 10GB.

 

[jpiniero]

A picture of Rembrandt APU.
Videocardz

P.S. The GPU has only 5 memory chips, so It should be a RX 6700M 10GB.

Hmm.. an extra 30 mm2 on top of whatever density gain AMD got from going to 6 nm. That's a big increase for something where the CPU cores didn't change much although the frequency gains will help.

 

[FlameTail]

ADL-P 8+8 and Raphael-H 16c have a tiny iGPU. They need dGPU. I hope there will also be Rembrandt H, without dgpu.

It's interesting to know that Raphael mobile were planned since at least March 2020. I only heard Raphael-H recently.

edit: sorry, I meant Phoenix-H, not RMB-H, since Raphael-H is the next generation to come along with Phoenix-U (at least).

So you are saying that Raphael-H will max out st 16 cores ? Crazy. 5980HX maxes out at 8 cores, half the core count of the top-of-the-line 5950X.

 

[flatwhite]

A picture of Rembrandt APU.
Videocardz

P.S. The GPU has only 5 memory chips, so It should be a RX 6700M 10GB.

hmm, does that mean it Rembrandt APU should support TB4 for sure? I could see 2 x USB 4.0 port in the picture.
DDR5 is dump, at least for the 1st iteration. More for marketing purpose that AMD is keeping up with Intel.
10Gb Ethernet and more PCIe lanes for NVMe storage is far more interesting...

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

So you are saying that Raphael-H will max out st 16 cores ? Crazy. 5980HX maxes out at 8 cores, half the core count of the top-of-the-line 5950X.

Make no mistake: Raphael-H will be a chiplet design consisting of 2 5nm CCD and an 6nm IOD. It will basically be the same as a 7950X.

With this in mind there are IMHO 2 options:

• They keep IFOP as the interconnect. Energy efficiency and consumption will be horrible from a mobile perspective. This will basically be a desktop replacement - nothing else.
• They do something like EFB bringing energy efficiency almost on par with a monolithic solution.

Sadly ATM I think option 1 is much more likely. We know that they keep IFOP for Genoa. And I simply cannot believe that they are doing a CCD being able to connect to both. OTOH. This could explain why the die size of CCD and IOD did not shrink that much given the process advantage. Maybe it gave them some spare area for an iGPU due to pad limitation in the first place? Anyone with more knowledge?

edit: Typo

 

[Asterox]

Quite understandable growth, if we consider all details.

Renoir Vega 8CU, 8MB L3 Cache
Cezanne Vega 8CU, 16MB L3 Cache
Rembrandt RDNA2 12CU, probably again 16mb L3 Cache

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476882418061688838

 

[gdansk]

Back to Picasso size. But I wonder how much is really the GPU given all those other improvements

 

[ahimsa42]

Make no mistake: Rembrandt-H will be a chiplet design consisting of 2 5nm CCD and an 6nm IOD. It will basically be the same as a 7950X.

With this in mind there are IMHO 2 options:

• They keep IFOP as the interconnect. Energy efficiency and consumption will be horrible from a mobile perspective. This will basically be a desktop replacement - nothing else.
• They do something like EFB bringing energy efficiency almost on par with a monolithic solution.

Sadly ATM I think option 1 is much more likely. We know that they keep IFOP for Genoa. And I simply cannot believe that they are doing a CCD being able to connect to both. OTOH. This could explain why the die size of CCD and IOD did not shrink that much given the process advantage. Maybe it gave them some spare area for an iGPU due to pad limitation in the first place? Anyone with more knowledge?

no idea about the actual mechanism but everything i have read claimed that RMB will offer a good increase in energy efficiency over cezanne.

 

[jpiniero]

So you are saying that Raphael-H will max out st 16 cores ? Crazy. 5980HX maxes out at 8 cores, half the core count of the top-of-the-line 5950X.

There's been some DTRs that use the existing desktop processors that go up to 16 cores. But it really needs an IGP to help battery life.

Back to Picasso size. But I wonder how much is really the GPU given all those other improvements

Thunderbolt takes up a nice chunk on Tiger Lake so it's possible that is also the case with the USB4. Gotta say I think I would rather have 32 MB L3.

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

no idea about the actual mechanism but everything i have read claimed that RMB will offer a good increase in energy efficiency over cezanne.

Sorry, Typo. I meant Raphael-H because that was what it was about. Edited that above.

 

[Shivansps]

Thunderbolt takes up a nice chunk on Tiger Lake so it's possible that is also the case with the USB4. Gotta say I think I would rather have 32 MB L3.

It is likely that they arent going to do L3 on APUs unless said L3 is also shared with the IGP.

 

[jpiniero]

It is likely that they arent going to do L3 on APUs unless said L3 is also shared with the IGP.

All of the Zen APUs have L3. Cezanne and Rembrandt have 16 MB.

 

[ahimsa42]

leaks suggest that there will be 24 FP7 SKU's from 28-45W. is it possible that due to RDNA2 power requirements, there will not be any 15W U APU's?

 

[andermans]

leaks suggest that there will be 24 FP7 SKU's from 28-45W. is it possible that due to RDNA2 power requirements, there will not be any 15W U APU's?

I think the U SKU previously had a 10-25W cTDP, I'm guessing the U SKU will have a similar-ish range this time but the default is different.

 

[jpiniero]

I think the U SKU previously had a 10-25W cTDP, I'm guessing the U SKU will have a similar-ish range this time but the default is different.

Most Cezanne U were set to 25W anyway.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

leaks suggest that there will be 24 FP7 SKU's from 28-45W. is it possible that due to RDNA2 power requirements, there will not be any 15W U APU's?

Even with 12CU you can be within 15W, you just need low enough clocks and RDNA2 is more power efficient than Vega, let's not forget about 6nm vs 7nm.

 

[Mopetar]

DDR5 is dump, at least for the 1st iteration. More for marketing purpose that AMD is keeping up with Intel.

I think the DDR5 is more important for the bandwidth. APUs have always been starved in this area and AMD is making a huge leap from 8 Vega CUs to 12 RDNA2 CUs.

For anyone who just wants a PC for some casual gaming, this is going to be a great chip. The RX 6400 (Navi 24) which is the bottom of the GPU stack will also have 12 CU so this is going to slot in right below that.

I don't know if it's been confirmed to be AM5 or not yet for the desktop parts, but if so it might actually be a great chip to snag for anyone who wants to start building a new PC without having to pay through the nose on a GPU.

 

[moinmoin]

hmm, does that mean it Rembrandt APU should support TB4 for sure? I could see 2 x USB 4.0 port in the picture.

USB4 is a subset of TB4. TB4 should be possible as Rembrandt supports 40 Gbps. Whether a given Rembrandt laptop supports TB4 depends on how the laptop implements it. To qualify a port as TB4 (instead just a collection of USB4 options) the laptop has to support on that port:

• 40 Gbps
• 32 Gbps for PCIe
• two 4K/one K8 display
• charging
• wake from sleep
• 4 TB port hub with 15W power
• Thunderbolt Networking

I'm not sure what of this can and is implemented right in Rembrandt already and what depends on further components and implementations the manufacturer has to consider.

See also:

Introducing Thunderbolt 4: Universal Cable Connectivity for Everyone | Intel Newsroom

Today, Intel revealed new details about Thunderbolt™ 4, the next generation of its universal cable connectivity solution.

newsroom.intel.com

 

[andermans]

USB4 is a subset of TB4. TB4 should be possible as Rembrandt supports 40 Gbps. Whether a given Rembrandt laptop supports TB4 depends on how the laptop implements it. To qualify a port as TB4 (instead just a collection of USB4 options) the laptop has to support on that port:

• 40 Gbps
• 32 Gbps for PCIe
• two 4K/one K8 display
• charging
• wake from sleep
• 4 TB port hub with 15W power
• Thunderbolt Networking

I'm not sure what of this can and is implemented right in Rembrandt already and what depends on further components and implementations the manufacturer has to consider.

See also:

Introducing Thunderbolt 4: Universal Cable Connectivity for Everyone | Intel Newsroom

Today, Intel revealed new details about Thunderbolt™ 4, the next generation of its universal cable connectivity solution.

newsroom.intel.com

Wait, isn't the Intel Vt-d requirement going to make this effectively Intel only? Or is the AMD equivalent also allowed?

 

[moinmoin]

Wait, isn't the Intel Vt-d requirement going to make this effectively Intel only? Or is the AMD equivalent also allowed?

Pretty sure generic isolation is required. Intel being Intel will of course toot its own horn there. M1 sure doesn't implement Intel VT-d specifically but still sports TB ports.

 

[xilli_fiberbit]

The thunderbolt support is visible in drivers :https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-rembrandt-zen-3-apu-speculation-and-discussion.2592313/post-40659217