AMD Radeon HD 6970 already benchmarked? Enough to beat GTX480 in Tesselation?

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Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
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Tessellation needs to be in the subpixel range throughout the entire screen before it can successfully and completely replace AA.

Tessellation can never replace AA.
You need AA to properly filter subpixels.
Quite simply, tessellation deals with geometry, AA deals with jagged edges on screen. You will ALWAYS have jagged edges if you don't do any kind of supersampling and filtering (aka AA), no matter how much geometric detail you have.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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I never said that Tessellation will replace AA, I never said they can’t coexist and I will say again that enabling AA with Tess gets a better result.

But the difference in high res its getting less visible when we enable AA and in future games with higher tessellation modes it will become even less visible and the performance penalty with AA will not be justifiable, that’s what im saying.
 

BathroomFeeling

Senior member
Apr 26, 2007
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Tessellation can never replace AA.
You need AA to properly filter subpixels.
Quite simply, tessellation deals with geometry, AA deals with jagged edges on screen. You will ALWAYS have jagged edges if you don't do any kind of supersampling and filtering (aka AA), no matter how much geometric detail you have.
Oh okay. I'm curious why this is though. In my head, a triangle that's smaller than a pixel, ought to look more like a grey shouldn't it? Assuming white is the color of the polygon, and black the background.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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There still going to be near verticals and horizontals and angles -- and what about movement?
 

Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
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Oh okay. I'm curious why this is though. In my head, a triangle that's smaller than a pixel, ought to look more like a grey shouldn't it? Assuming white is the color of the polygon, and black the background.

Well, that's the thing... How do you get from a white polygon to a gray pixel? That's what AA does for you. Tessellation is just the subdivision of polygons into smaller polygons. It doesn't control how these polygons are actually being rasterized into the pixels on your screen.
So under normal circumstances, a white polygon that is smaller than 1 pixel will just be rendered as a single white pixel.
By using supersampling you can determine the coverage of the polygon inside the pixel, and with AA you can filter it down to the proper gray value.

So tessellation really doesn't have anything to do with that. Tessellation doesn't happen during the actual drawing (rasterization) of the polygons on screen, but before.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
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Iv been thinking about this "Cayman will be the new R300" thing AMD said. Is this AMD being AMD like they were with Phenom blowing core2 out of the water?

It sounds like a ridiculous statement.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Have to wait and see. For it to be the next R300, it would have to blow away the competition and scream in DX11.
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
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Have to wait and see. For it to be the next R300, it would have to blow away the competition and scream in DX11.

Not really. I dont think AMD stated that fermi is the new 5000fx-series.
 
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Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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If we get Metro-style tesselation, I'd rather be without. Either implement tesselation properly, or don't bother at all.

But then, I seriously doubt you care whether it looks better or not, as long as the game runs better on Nvidia GPUs.

*facepalm*

You really did a foot-in-mouth there :thumbsup:

Picking Metro2033 as a gaguge for tesseallation is stupid.
Why?
Because the drop in performance with tessellation enabled isn't due soley too tessellation.
It's has a lot too do with that in order to enable tessellation you need to set Metro 2033 to maximum settings...which also uses larger shadowmaps (2048x2048 if I remenber correctly)...

So you used a flawed example and even had the nerve to make it a personal slant against me.

Ignorace is bliss I guess...but next time you decide to attack me, throw the grenade....not the pin...and I don't have to treat you like an uneducated fanboy :rolleyes:



Stop with the insults. Now


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
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97015530800png.jpg

57330977.jpg

97015550800.jpg
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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^860mhz, 2GB vram, 1920 4D sp
~GTX580 performance

If that is true, then the worse case scenario would be 480 shaders, versus the 320 from the 5870. Which represents a 50% increase in shader power under a worse case scenario. However, under the best case scenario (less likely to happen) it would only result in 20% increase in performance. This is, of course, assuming that the shaders are equivilent in power. I am very excited about the card if the above is true! It means we can truly expect something in the range of a 30-40% increase in performance, perhaps up to 50%!

Wouldn't this also indicate a potential of 48 ROPs?
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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My expectation

DX-9/10

HD6970 = +25% from 5870
HD6950 = +10% from 5870

DX-11 Tessellation ????
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
My expectation

DX-9/10

HD6970 = +25% from 5870
HD6950 = +10% from 5870

DX-11 Tessellation ????

The 6950 would only be 15% faster than the 6870... That does not seem like much of an ugprade, especially if they follow the same price points of $299 and $399. As long as we are throwing in some predictions here, I am going to say that my expectations are:

HD6970 = +35% from 5870
HD6950 = +20% from 5870
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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My expectation

DX-9/10

HD6970 = +25% from 5870
HD6950 = +10% from 5870

DX-11 Tessellation ????

I expect tessellation performance to be ~x2 faster as I suspect they have added 1 more tessellation engine to the GPU.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Not really. I dont think AMD stated that fermi is the new 5000fx-series.

It goes hand in hand. What made the R300 so great was Nvidia's failure to have an adequete answer. If Nvidia had a card that was faster than the 9700 and 9800 then that card wouldnt had been percieved as good as it was.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
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My expectation

DX-9/10

HD6970 = +25% from 5870
HD6950 = +10% from 5870

DX-11 Tessellation ????


O_O'

Wow those are some low expectations, esp when there are rumors of the 6970 beating the 580 or tradeing blows with it in most things.


The site’s numbers cover both 3DMark Vantage and the Unigine Heaven benchmark, with the Radeon HD 6970 allegedly scoring 23,499 on the first one while delivering 36.6fps on the Unigine benchmark running at 1920 x 1,080 with 4x anti-aliasing and 16x anisotropic filtering. By comparison, a GTX 480 on the same platform scored 21,106 in 3DMark and ran Unigine Heaven at 29.5fps, while an HD 5870 managed 19,337 and 17.3, respectively.

Source: http://www.techspot.com/news/40876-amd-radeon-6970-benchmark-numbers-leaked.html

Vantage:
480 = 21,106
6970 = 23,499

~12% more than a 480.
(remember physX gives a HUGE CPU score in vantage, yet the 480 even with PhsyX bloated score, still slower by ~12%)

Unigine (tessellation extreme, 1920x1080 4xAA, 16xAF)
6970 = 36.6 fps
480 = 29.5 fps

~ 25% faster in a tesellation benchmark at extreme settings.


Now the 480 has been out along time, has had plenty of time to get drivers working. The 6970 isnt even out yet... it has new 4d shaders and a million other small changes. So naturally theres room for improvements with drivers ect.


The 580 on avg. looks to be 15% faster than the 480 in games (again from leaks).
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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@Tempered81

wow you find all the nice pictures :) (sexy looking cards right there)
Do you work at a AIB or something? :p

@Troll Trolling
It looks longer than most cards to me <_<'
Which I guess is for a REALLY big cooler lmao.
 
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Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
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@Tempered81

wow you find all the nice pictures :) (sexy looking cards right there)
Do you work at a AIB or something? :p

@Troll Trolling
It looks longer than most cards to me <_<'
Which I guess is for a REALLY big cooler lmao.

A vapor chamber? Then again, they are suppose to be more compact than regular fin/heatpipe based coolers.
 

chewietobbacca

Senior member
Jun 10, 2007
291
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The 6950 would only be 15% faster than the 6870... That does not seem like much of an ugprade, especially if they follow the same price points of $299 and $399. As long as we are throwing in some predictions here, I am going to say that my expectations are:

HD6970 = +35% from 5870
HD6950 = +20% from 5870

Agreed, +15 for the 6950 is way too close to the 6870, especially if the 6950 is due to be in the mid $300's and 6970 in the mid $400's.

Plus, consider that Barts XT at 250mm^2 is going up against Cayman XT at 360mm^2 (Cypress is 330mm^2).... and Barts XT is ~150W and Cayman XT somewhere around ~225W...
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
1,848
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You really did a foot-in-mouth there :thumbsup:

Picking Metro2033 as a gaguge for tesseallation is stupid.
Why?
Because the drop in performance with tessellation enabled isn't due soley too tessellation.
It's has a lot too do with that in order to enable tessellation you need to set Metro 2033 to maximum settings...which also uses larger shadowmaps (2048x2048 if I remenber correctly)...

So you used a flawed example and even had the nerve to make it a personal slant against me.

Ignorace is bliss I guess...but next time you decide to attack me, throw the grenade....not the pin...and I don't have to treat you like an uneducated fanboy:rolleyes:

You are a funny guy :) Talk about being close minded. You do realise that the tesselation in Metro is barely noticable, right? It's on character models. That's it. We get a minor (reeeeeealy tiny) improvement of character models. That's not using tesselation properly. Tesselation shows it's real strenghts when applied in a larger scale, on terrain and such.

I don't even know where I mentioned the performance hit in my post, but you're probably so far up your own ass you can't read properly anyway. Please, do prove me wrong and I wont have to treat you like an uneducated ass-dweller:rolleyes:




Again, I repeat. Stop with the insults. Now


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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