AMD Phenom II X4 840 to 965?

[netarangi]

Will it be a worthy upgrde doing this?

 

[Termie]

Read this article and you'll have your answer.

http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-gaming-performance-with-today-cpus

 

[Plimogz]

Oh Termie! What about all of us who would give great credence to your opinion but don't [at all] want to read that article? couldn't you just give a succinct answer?

 

[netarangi]

Even with a 7950? Won't the CPU bottleneck it?

 

[Termie]

Oh Termie! What about all of us who would give great credence to your opinion but don't [at all] want to read that article? couldn't you just give a succinct answer?

LOL, OK, I'll give it a try, but the truth is that the answer's not that clear. See, the 965 is quite a bit faster than the 840, but the delta between those two processors is small compared to the difference between a Phenom II and any Sandy/Ivy Bridge processor. So if someone is very budget constrained, than yes, the 965 might be a good upgrade. And I wouldn't pair a new high-end graphics card with the 840 but would consider it with a 965.

Honestly, though, I'd probably just move on entirely from AMD at this point before even buying a new graphics card.

 

[Termie]

Even with a 7950? Won't the CPU bottleneck it?

The article I linked will give you all the answers. It tests a 7950 with a number of processors, including one like yours. All AMD processors will bottleneck a 7950 in just about every game released in the past year. How much bottleneck are you willing to accept? With an 840, you'll get about 2/3 of the performance that a 7950 is capable of. That's a terrible setup. You might as well buy a 7850.

 

[Durvelle27]

The article I linked will give you all the answers. It tests a 7950 with a number of processors, including one like yours. All AMD processors will bottleneck a 7950 in just about every game released in the past year. How much bottleneck are you willing to accept? With an 840, you'll get about 2/3 of the performance that a 7950 is capable of. That's a terrible setup. You might as well buy a 7850.

that's not entirely true a AMD Phenom II 1090T, Phenom II 1100T, FX 8120, and FX 8150 will not bottleneck a HD 7950

:thumbsdown:

 

[toyota]

that's not entirely true a AMD Phenom II 1090T, Phenom II 1100T, FX 8120, and FX 8150 will not bottleneck a HD 7950

:thumbsdown:

technically they most certainly will. its just not enough to matter in most cases.

 

[Durvelle27]

technically they most certainly will. its just not enough to matter in most cases.

so a AMD 8150 4.8GHz + 2x HD 7970's OC 1100MHz

 

[Plimogz]

problem with bulldozer is that it never really got higher clocks than oc'able Intel, not in any useful measure anyway. That coupled with its obvious IPC (read both Core and Clock as "C" here) deficiencies...

It would be quite incongruous to couple a 8150 (however nicely oc'ed) with 1000$ worth of Gfx cards. At some point there needs to be cutoff to platform loyalty (I don't mean brand loyalty)

The 8150, suitably OC'ed, might be able to drive those in some games (forgetting the power consumption) but some titles would reveal a hugediscrepancy between vendors when going all out. (remember, this isn't some $ for $ comparison, you're talking 1000$ GPU setup)

That said, how did we get onto talking about 2x 1.1GHz 7970s when the OP's litmus test was a 7950?

 

[Durvelle27]

if you really want a upgrade consider a Phenom II x6 or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116775

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115234

 

[SlowSpyder]

Even with a 7950? Won't the CPU bottleneck it?

Even the best Phenom will still bottleneck a 7950 in some games. But in other games it'll be plenty of CPU. At any rate it'll be better than the 840.

The Ph II 840 has no L3 cache, right? Games often seem to take advantage of the L3 cache, it can provide a boost by just having that at the same frequency. If you can get a good deal on the 965 (cheap) then I say go for it. Even if you don't overclock you get a few hundred MHz more and the L3 cache, it should provide a boost as is. But, the unlocked multiplier makes it very easy to add more speed to the cores. And if you don't mind tinkering, pushing the northbridge/L3 with the cores it can provide a very sizeable upgrade for you.

So the short answer from me is to go for it if you can get the chip cheap. For very little work 3.6-3.8GHz should be possible. With a bit more work a 2.6GHz NB/L3 and a 3.8 -4+GHz overclock should be possible, which would be a nice upgrade.

*edit - Just thinking out loud here. If you get the 965 and overclock to 4GHz, that is an 800Mhz boost, or 25% more clock speed. So if you figure 25% more clock plus the L3 that should provide a 5-10% benefit, and if you push the NB/L3 (and in turn the memory can be clocked higher) you'll get even more benefit. I wouldn't be too surprised if you could see a 30%+ upgrade in speed in some areas. Then if you Ebay your 840 for $50, it could work out to be a very cheap upgrade.

 

[daveybrat]

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727

$20 off w/ promo code EMCNANF33, ends 9/10


I would go this route personally. $89 for a processor much faster and with higher overclocking potential than your 840 chip and you can easily sell your old processor for $50 making it a cheap $40 upgrade.

 

[netarangi]

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103727

$20 off w/ promo code EMCNANF33, ends 9/10


I would go this route personally. $89 for a processor much faster and with higher overclocking potential than your 840 chip and you can easily sell your old processor for $50 making it a cheap $40 upgrade.

They don't ship to my country.

 

[guskline]

Read this article and you'll have your answer.

http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-gaming-performance-with-today-cpus

Termie: Great read. As you can see in rig 3 below I now am playing around with a Bulldozer 8150 (didn't want to waste that Asus Sabertooth 990FX and was unwilling to give it away for "Cheap"). At stock the Bulldozer really is noticeably slower. Crank it up to where I have it (4.53Ghz 21.5 x 210) and it starts to perform much better.I actually had it a bit higher at 4.6 Ghz (20 x 230) but the NB heat was too high for my liking and I backed off. Though I clocked the multiplier higher, the fsb at 210 works well in my rig. I'm using a Corsair H100 cooling system and though not the very best, one of the better ones. Heat just gets too much if it goes much over 4,5 Ghz.

I can only imagine what that 3770k must perform like!

 

[guskline]

so a AMD 8150 4.8GHz + 2x HD 7970's OC 1100MHz

Good luck trying to get a 8150 to 4.8 Ghz + 2x HD 7970s OC to 1100MHz without taking down the power grid!

 

[Termie]

Termie: Great read. As you can see in rig 3 below I now am playing around with a Bulldozer 8150 (didn't want to waste that Asus Sabertooth 990FX and was unwilling to give it away for "Cheap"). At stock the Bulldozer really is noticeably slower. Crank it up to where I have it (4.53Ghz 21.5 x 210) and it starts to perform much better.I actually had it a bit higher at 4.6 Ghz (20 x 230) but the NB heat was too high for my liking and I backed off. Though I clocked the multiplier higher, the fsb at 210 works well in my rig. I'm using a Corsair H100 cooling system and though not the very best, one of the better ones. Heat just gets too much if it goes much over 4,5 Ghz.

I can only imagine what that 3770k must perform like!

So in the end, how does that Bulldozer compare to your 2500k setups? Relatively close?

By the way, I can't believe no one took those 5850s off your hands. They were a steal price/performance-wise. Guess you're "stuck" with them, but as you know, the performance is excellent. Part of me wishes I'd held on to one of mine and sold my GTX460 instead...

 

[guskline]

Termie: Here's what I posted in the thread this morning.
This is a follow up to all of the above posts. When I started this thread I hopefully made it clear that I was going to try to give an unbiased opinion of my experience of the 8150 as opposed to my 2500ks ( and to a lesser degree my 1100T). Along this "journey" I upgraded both the case and cooling.

My thoughts. If you are building from scratch, a decent z77 mb (in the price range of the Asus Sabertooth 990fx $180) plus a 3570k will cost $40 more than a 8150 plus the sabertooth. SPEND the extra dough! To get the Bulldozer to run close enough to my 2500k, which is slightly slower than the 3570k you have to have high end cooling (spent @$114 for Corsair H100) and ramp up the clock speed which requires a beefier PSU. I am not posting this to "BASH" the 8150. I jumped on it when it dropped to $170. Not the best money move I ever made but considering my "thirst" to try it myself coupled with a solid 990FX mb and two "unused" 5850s I decided to make the move. If you are not a computer nerd like me who loves playing with different combos and only have the $$ for 1 new build, primarily for gaming, I have to recommend an Intel build. The gap, all things considered, is too wide not to choose the Intel especially for gamers. If you have a 1100T on a 990FX mb wait for the PileDriver if not the Steamroller unless you are anxious to see what an "8 core" is like. The 8150 does have better memory handling than the 1100T.

All of this leads to an obvious question. Why, with all the poor Bulldozer 8150 reviews would I buy one? Are you nuts? Well the nuts part my wife has already answered in the affirmative. We have a happy detante after 39 years of marriage. I promised her I wouldn't ask how much she spends at Talbots if she held off on grilling me about how much i spend on computer parts. It's worked so far! I'm sure she has spent $170 on clothing that she "had" to have that isn't her favorite or best looking.

As to the poor reviews for the 8150, they compared the 8150 properly to the 2600k/3770k and even the 2500k and below and it simply didn't match up.
My reason to get one comes down to that famous line in the Dirty Harry movie when Harry (Clint Eastwood) is pointing his 6" S&W 29 .44 mag at the bad guy and saying something like " Now, did I shoot 5 round or six, punk?" I'm like the guy on the ground who says " I gots to know!":sneaky: Well, I now know!D_O

I'll keep playing with this rig to try and "tweak" it some more.

I'll be glad to run more benchmarks if you want and I can get them for free. ( Just ran 3Dmark11 on the 8150 rig and it scored 7318 in performance mode).

Termie: I know the 2500ks are faster but the for the game play I do, the Bulldozer tweaked is close enough. Sorry I can't be definitive. Would I recommend it over a 2500k build? With very few exceptions NO. Compare to your 3770k @4.4 Ghz GIMME A BREAK!() I'm always in your rear view mirror!

 

[Termie]

Termie: Here's what I posted in the thread this morning.
This is a follow up to all of the above posts. When I started this thread I hopefully made it clear that I was going to try to give an unbiased opinion of my experience of the 8150 as opposed to my 2500ks ( and to a lesser degree my 1100T). Along this "journey" I upgraded both the case and cooling.

My thoughts. If you are building from scratch, a decent z77 mb (in the price range of the Asus Sabertooth 990fx $180) plus a 3570k will cost $40 more than a 8150 plus the sabertooth. SPEND the extra dough! To get the Bulldozer to run close enough to my 2500k, which is slightly slower than the 3570k you have to have high end cooling (spent @$114 for Corsair H100) and ramp up the clock speed which requires a beefier PSU. I am not posting this to "BASH" the 8150. I jumped on it when it dropped to $170. Not the best money move I ever made but considering my "thirst" to try it myself coupled with a solid 990FX mb and two "unused" 5850s I decided to make the move. If you are not a computer nerd like me who loves playing with different combos and only have the $$ for 1 new build, primarily for gaming, I have to recommend an Intel build. The gap, all things considered, is too wide not to choose the Intel especially for gamers. If you have a 1100T on a 990FX mb wait for the PileDriver if not the Steamroller unless you are anxious to see what an "8 core" is like. The 8150 does have better memory handling than the 1100T.

All of this leads to an obvious question. Why, with all the poor Bulldozer 8150 reviews would I buy one? Are you nuts? Well the nuts part my wife has already answered in the affirmative. We have a happy detante after 39 years of marriage. I promised her I wouldn't ask how much she spends at Talbots if she held off on grilling me about how much i spend on computer parts. It's worked so far! I'm sure she has spent $170 on clothing that she "had" to have that isn't her favorite or best looking.

As to the poor reviews for the 8150, they compared the 8150 properly to the 2600k/3770k and even the 2500k and below and it simply didn't match up.
My reason to get one comes down to that famous line in the Dirty Harry movie when Harry (Clint Eastwood) is pointing his 6" S&W 29 .44 mag at the bad guy and saying something like " Now, did I shoot 5 round or six, punk?" I'm like the guy on the ground who says " I gots to know!":sneaky: Well, I now know!D_O

I'll keep playing with this rig to try and "tweak" it some more.

I'll be glad to run more benchmarks if you want and I can get them for free. ( Just ran 3Dmark11 on the 8150 rig and it scored 7318 in performance mode).

Termie: I know the 2500ks are faster but the for the game play I do, the Bulldozer tweaked is close enough. Sorry I can't be definitive. Would I recommend it over a 2500k build? With very few exceptions NO. Compare to your 3770k @4.4 Ghz GIMME A BREAK!() I'm always in your rear view mirror!

Great post, Guskline. Honest words from an honest enthusiast.

And no way you're in my rearview mirror - you've got those dual cards that I'm envious of!