AMD or Intel for DUAL CORE technology?

[imported_KuJaX]

Hey peoples,

I wanted to get some opinions concerning using AMD or Intel Dual Core processors for Windows CPU Intensive applications.

What specific chip do you recommend?

Any specific motherboards that you would recommend?

Hopefully we can get a good discussion going on here.

 

[AkumaX]

AMD no contest

 

[Markfw]

AMD no contest. Whats the budget ? what usages ? I like the MSI NEO4-F for a basic good board, but no firewire. Opteron 170 for CPU and XP90 for cooling.

 

[imported_KuJaX]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
AMD no contest. Whats the budget ? what usages ? I like the MSI NEO4-F for a basic good board, but no firewire. Opteron 170 for CPU and XP90 for cooling.

The usage will include stock/options/futures charting/trading applications that are extremely RAM and CPU intensive.

 

[Markfw]

OK, just add 2 gig ram to my list, and any video card. You are set. I recommend mild OC'ing, as it sound like business (2.4~ish) Is this application multi-threaded ? Are there any other uses for this computer ?

 

[Hard Ball]

AMD is performing significantly higher than Intel; especially since Intel lost the advantage of Hyperthreading(basically fake dual core).

 

[IdaGno]

it isn't even close http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=paxville&page=1&cookie%5Ftest=1

 

[imported_KuJaX]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
OK, just add 2 gig ram to my list, and any video card. You are set. I recommend mild OC'ing, as it sound like business (2.4~ish) Is this application multi-threaded ? Are there any other uses for this computer ?

Really no other uses. I do not belive any of the programs are considered mult-threaded.

 

[Viditor]

Definately AMD...either the X2 or the 1xx dual core Opteron.
For mobos, you might consider one of the new NForce 6100 or 6150 chipset based boards. They're cheaper and they have onboard Nvidia VGA.

 

[BOBSONATOR025]

yea Amd farts on intel in the dual cores.

 

[stevty2889]

Definatly get the AMD, I have both, and the Intel dual core doesn't stand a chance at stock speeds, and falls even farther behind when overclocking.

 

[Dimos]

You should be aware that on AMD X2 systems if you put more than 2GB ram it will be DDR333 and not DDR400 and this will affect the overall perfomance. Also, 1GB DDR sticks are much more expensive than 1GB DDR2 sticks, and AMD accept only DDR. Plus, I have compatibilty issues with the Athlon 64 3800+ X2 running Serious Sam 2. I read that people have problems with AMD X2 with other games too, so it would be better to check, if that is possible, if i.e. Serious Sam 2 runs ok on Pentium D without defining affinity. Try it on AMD X2 too of course. This test will be a good sign of compatibility with the current software. Though Microsoft claims that they have a hotfix which should solve all dualcore related problems, but you have to ...call them to give it to you (!!). Anyway I am planning to call them right after, so I will be back with more details. Still, if Pentium D run Serious Sam 2 without the hotfix is a good sign. You could try Opteron too, I read they do not have this problem.

 

[imported_KuJaX]

Originally posted by: Dimos
You should be aware that on AMD X2 systems if you put more than 2GB ram it will be DDR333 and not DDR400 and this will affect the overall perfomance. Also, 1GB DDR sticks are much more expensive than 1GB DDR2 sticks, and AMD accept only DDR. Plus, I have compatibilty issues with the Athlon 64 3800+ X2 running Serious Sam 2. I read that people have problems with AMD X2 with other games too, so it would be better to check, if that is possible, if i.e. Serious Sam 2 runs ok on Pentium D without defining affinity. Try it on AMD X2 too of course. This test will be a good sign of compatibility with the current software. Though Microsoft claims that they have a hotfix which should solve all dualcore related problems, but you have to ...call them to give it to you (!!). Anyway I am planning to call them right after, so I will be back with more details. Still, if Pentium D run Serious Sam 2 without the hotfix is a good sign. You could try Opteron too, I read they do not have this problem.

The system will not even see solitaire... let alone a full out computer game.

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: Dimos
You should be aware that on AMD X2 systems if you put more than 2GB ram it will be DDR333 and not DDR400 and this will affect the overall perfomance. Also, 1GB DDR sticks are much more expensive than 1GB DDR2 sticks, and AMD accept only DDR. Plus, I have compatibilty issues with the Athlon 64 3800+ X2 running Serious Sam 2. I read that people have problems with AMD X2 with other games too, so it would be better to check, if that is possible, if i.e. Serious Sam 2 runs ok on Pentium D without defining affinity. Try it on AMD X2 too of course. This test will be a good sign of compatibility with the current software. Though Microsoft claims that they have a hotfix which should solve all dualcore related problems, but you have to ...call them to give it to you (!!). Anyway I am planning to call them right after, so I will be back with more details. Still, if Pentium D run Serious Sam 2 without the hotfix is a good sign. You could try Opteron too, I read they do not have this problem.

WWYBYWB

 

[MoogerFooger]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
XP90 for cooling.

Is there a problem with stock AMD coolers? I thought mine was pretty effective, it runs 32C when idle and about 40-42 under stress. Is it good enough?

 

[Dimos]

Originally posted by: KuJaX
The system will not even see solitaire... let alone a full out computer game.

I am referring to this game as it is the one I can tell you for sure that has problems with the AMD 64 3800+ X2 I have. Doing the test in a shop, if that is possible, will reveal to you which processor is more compatible, if there is one. I my self plan to give back the AMD 64 3800+ X2 for a Pentium D 830 to see what will happen. For now, AMD X2 right out of the box along with Windows XP Professional right out of the box do not work right.

 

[Dimos]

I received the Hotfix thru e-mail, I did not pay anything. They say "WARNING: This fix is not publicly available through the Microsoft website as it has not gone through full Microsoft regression testing.". I installed the fix and I restarted, as suggested. That's all, now Serious Sam 2 goes like a charm, and a scene in 3ds Max from ~1.25sec went down to ~1.21.


Edit: I have to have Cool 'n Quiet disabled, from the bios, for the hotfix to work. I think also that it is required that the power saving settings inside Windows XP will be not "minimal".

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: Dimos
I received the Hotfix thru e-mail, I did not pay anything. They say "WARNING: This fix is not publicly available through the Microsoft website as it has not gone through full Microsoft regression testing.". I installed the fix and I restarted, as suggested. That's all, now Serious Sam 2 goes like a charm, and a scene in 3ds Max from ~1.25sec went down to ~1.21. What a shame for AMD for their CPUs to work with current Windows XP customers have to ask for a hot fix from Microsoft.

It's not AMD's fault, it's a windows problem, the problems have occured with Pentium-D's as well. Actualy I had none of the problems with my X2, and all of them with my Pentium-D, some of which even the hotfix didn't fix..I didn't even need to install the hotfix with my X2.

 

[Dimos]

Originally posted by: stevty2889

Originally posted by: Dimos
What a shame for AMD for their CPUs to work with current Windows XP customers have to ask for a hot fix from Microsoft.

It's not AMD's fault, it's a windows problem, the problems have occured with Pentium-D's as well. Actualy I had none of the problems with my X2, and all of them with my Pentium-D, some of which even the hotfix didn't fix..I didn't even need to install the hotfix with my X2.

It is a fault of AMD, they are pulling out a CPU that does not work with the current version of Windows XP and they do not take responsibility. It is their obligation to release a compatible processor, not an obligation of Microsoft to be compatible with whatever CPU AMD release in the future??!!!???! If they do not want their CPU to work with Microsoft, they should not support it at all!
It has to be that simple: You buy the parts to build/upgrade your pc, as used. Then you go and buy Windows XP and an electronic game. You go home, you put things together and things just work.
With the AMD X2 they will work only if you have an internet connection and alot of patience to look around, to find out that it is because of the CPU, and then on www.amd.com there is not a single letter frontpage to say what to do. Even if you search their site for "dualcore problems", the word "problems" will not be listed :laugh:. Their CPU driver does nothing. So, do you really accept the fact that it is customer's responsibility for the AMD X2 to work, to play some of the most known games, to surf the internet? Before the fix, even scrolling down firefox stuttered.
The same apply to Pentium D if it has the same problems, but I do not have one to know. I just warn future buyers to "try before buy". Not to say anything about Microsoft, that require from us to make a phone call to them to get the fix.

 

[Dimos]

Guess what! Finally, neither hotfix from Microsoft works!

 

[ribbon13]

What is your budget? If this is a business machine and time is money, it might be worthwhile to bump up to an Opteron 175, run it at 10*250 1:1 with some PC4000 RAM. That's my standard reccomendation for highly CPU/RAM intensive operations.

Dimos, as a 3D developer I assure you the problem lies with Serious Sam 2/Windows and not the CPU. I've encountered several game engines that would run on a test platform (uniprocessor) but choke and die on my workstation. Did you install the latest BIOS for your motherboard? You installed this driver, applied this hotfix and then applied the registry patch, and set PerfEnablePackageIdl to 1?

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: Dimos
You should be aware that on AMD X2 systems if you put more than 2GB ram it will be DDR333 and not DDR400 and this will affect the overall perfomance. Also, 1GB DDR sticks are much more expensive than 1GB DDR2 sticks, and AMD accept only DDR. Plus, I have compatibilty issues with the Athlon 64 3800+ X2 running Serious Sam 2. I read that people have problems with AMD X2 with other games too, so it would be better to check, if that is possible, if i.e. Serious Sam 2 runs ok on Pentium D without defining affinity. Try it on AMD X2 too of course. This test will be a good sign of compatibility with the current software. Though Microsoft claims that they have a hotfix which should solve all dualcore related problems, but you have to ...call them to give it to you (!!). Anyway I am planning to call them right after, so I will be back with more details. Still, if Pentium D run Serious Sam 2 without the hotfix is a good sign. You could try Opteron too, I read they do not have this problem.

Quit spreading FUD. If you're so damn smart and in the know, you'd have done your research and realized that ALL REV. E AMD's, WHICH INCLUDE EVERY SINGLE DUAL CORE PRODUCED ARE CAPABLE OF RUNNING DDR400 WITH 4 DIMMS. Hell, if you get that ATi DFI mobo you can run DDR400 1T with 4 DIMMS.

 

[Dimos]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
What is your budget? If this is a business machine and time is money, it might be worthwhile to bump up to an Opteron 175, run it at 10*250 1:1 with some PC4000 RAM. That's my standard reccomendation for highly CPU/RAM intensive operations.

Dimos, as a 3D developer I assure you the problem lies with Serious Sam 2/Windows and not the CPU. I've encountered several game engines that would run on a test platform (uniprocessor) but choke and die on my workstation. Did you install the latest BIOS for your motherboard? You installed this driver, applied this hotfix and then applied the registry patch, and set PerfEnablePackageIdl to 1?

I will try to find an Opteron CPU. I am a hobbyist and I really like dualcores for fast 3d rendering. The point is, I installed Amdcpu, I installed Hotfix, I changed the registry, althought I do not remember if I put 1 or 0. I did not updated the bios of the motherboard. I had no results, except if I put affinity to one core after loading Serious Sam 2. Which was pitiful to do. Then again, the problem with dual core malfunctioning remained in the desktop, the mouse behaved strangely, clicks were not robust in Opera or Firefox. There were of course games that played well, but if a game plays well on one core, but not on two cores, it means there is something wrong with the implementation of two cores and the compatibility with the past. That is something bad for me, maybe it is not for someone else.

I really find it ridiculous that instead of going forward technologically, we are going backward. I have also a Pentium IV 2.8 Northwood, and everything worked fine right out of the box. Now I do not understand why I have to do all that staff just to do the computer what is supposed built to do and in the end, I do not want to do all that! I am saying that for AMD X2 because this is what I bought. I have now returned it back and I am waiting a Pentium D 830 to test. If Pentium D is as crap as well, it will be crap and that is the only fact. As for the overclocking thing, I do not like overclocking, a friend of mine had his PC overclocked, and he had saved corrupted files in 3d applications.

 

[Dimos]

Originally posted by: Leper Messiah

Originally posted by: Dimos
You should be aware that on AMD X2 systems if you put more than 2GB ram it will be DDR333 and not DDR400 and this will affect the overall perfomance. Also, 1GB DDR sticks are much more expensive than 1GB DDR2 sticks, and AMD accept only DDR. Plus, I have compatibilty issues with the Athlon 64 3800+ X2 running Serious Sam 2. I read that people have problems with AMD X2 with other games too, so it would be better to check, if that is possible, if i.e. Serious Sam 2 runs ok on Pentium D without defining affinity. Try it on AMD X2 too of course. This test will be a good sign of compatibility with the current software. Though Microsoft claims that they have a hotfix which should solve all dualcore related problems, but you have to ...call them to give it to you (!!). Anyway I am planning to call them right after, so I will be back with more details. Still, if Pentium D run Serious Sam 2 without the hotfix is a good sign. You could try Opteron too, I read they do not have this problem.

Quit spreading FUD. If you're so damn smart and in the know, you'd have done your research and realized that ALL REV. E AMD's, WHICH INCLUDE EVERY SINGLE DUAL CORE PRODUCED ARE CAPABLE OF RUNNING DDR400 WITH 4 DIMMS. Hell, if you get that ATi DFI mobo you can run DDR400 1T with 4 DIMMS.

It is not fud. In my ex motherboard, an Asus A8N-SLI, automatic recognition returns DDR333 2T while I had put 4 dimms 512MB DDR400 Kingston. You can check at Kingston web site that the majority of AMD SLI motherboards someone can buy do not currently support DDR400 for more than 4 ranks, and two double sided dimms occupy those 4 ranks. But for me is not a big problem, having the memory at DDR333 2T as suggested it drops theoritical perfomance a bit in configurations with alot of ram (more than 2GB) but it is safe. I do not doubt that there may be some motherboards that do support DDR400 with 4 dimms.

 

[n7]

Dimos, i hate to be rude, but you need to research your "facts" before stating them as such.

For example, running 4 dimms in an A64 means you have to run @ 2T instead of 1T, but it does work at DDR400 on all newer A64s (Venice & up)
Just because my motherboard auto selects DDR333 @ 2T for my RAM doesn't mean that it is correct.

It's also not correct in yours.

As for that game issue, it's true there have been a few issues with dual cores & games & some programs, but as was mentioned, many people have had no issues, & most that have taken the proper steps to fix them have been successful.