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AMD NForce2 Solution, Dual Channel, ECC RAM and more

D

DWW

Platinum Member
I'm putting together a new server with stability and uptime in mind. That said I'm on a budget so initially I was going Intel but someone suggested AMD as an option. Although the price is a little more here I've been thinking about AMD.

Read the Asus A7N8X board is really good with nforce2 chipset. Supports dual channel pc3200. First question is: Is it true that I must have two sticks of ram to take advantage of dual channel? So its better to have 2x 256 than 1x 512 ?

This board however, does not support ECC ram which was something I wanted. Second question: Does anyone know if ANY AMD pc3200 board as of late, specifically nforce2 if possible, supports ECC?

Third question: Does anyone know where to buy ECC pc3200 RAM? Crucial only sells ECC with pc2100 RAM unfortunately.

thanks
 
My first question: Why do you want ECC RAM? There's a noticeable difference in performance, ECC being slower... which is why it's mainly used in servers only where reliability takes priority over speed.

2nd question: Where on earth are you shopping where an AMD combo is more expensive than an Intel combo?

To answer your question... yes it's true, you can only take advantage of dual channel memory if you have 2 sticks... and it's better to have 2 sticks in a dual channel setup. But if you don't have a motherboard with dual channels, then 1 stick will be faster.
 
Jeff, DWW is building a server, that is why he is suggesting ECC.

BTW, what type of server are you building?

As for dual channel, yes you must install memory in pairs for it to work. With one stick, it will default to single channel. In non-dual channel chipset based motherboards, there is NO performance loss from using 2 x 256 vs 1 x 512. That is a myth.

In your case, PC3200 is overkill. In dual channel mode, your memory bus will be sending more information than your frontside bus could handle anyway. PC2100 should be okay.

As for ECC, no, the NForce2 does not support ECC.

Right now, the NForce2 does not appear to be a good fit. That chipset was mainly marketed toward high performance desktops with multimedia in mind.
 
Jeff7181 I live in Canada.
Intel P4 2.4 GHz = $253
AMD Athlon 2.1 GHz = $367

Windogg its going to be nothing "mission critical". Just a BSD box for my own socket coding stuffs and misc works I'm headed towards. I know ECC sounds more than I need, but since its not going to always be within arms reach (I travel lots and connect remotely) a solid system is prefered.
 
http://www.intel.com/design/servers/buildingblocks/s845wdi-e/index.htm?iid=ipp_srvr_mthrbds+s845wdie_srvr&

What about this Intel P4 motherboard for "entry servers" ? What do you guys think ?

The new H version (HyperThreading) is at googlegear for $180 and seems to have fairly nice features. Though I don't really need the H part because only the 3.06 has HyperThreading and even though the new P4 will have it at lower clock speeds supposedly, those are 800 bus CPU not for this board anyhow... so what do you think? Buy this + P4 2.4 w/ 533 bus now?

How many more months till a 2.4 w/ 800 bus will be available at nearly same price as the 533 ones? Is it true that the new P4 will have 1 MB cache not just 512K ???
 
What are you serving which requires a 2000 mhz + cpu? The majority of servers (I did not say all) are far more limited by their hard drive subsystem (not to mention your internet connection bandwidth), and not processing power, but this really depends on the application.

Again, I am making a reccomdation based solely on the limited info your provided:
I would look for a 1700+ Athlon XP, go for a top notch heatsink such as the SLK-800.
Epox 8rda+ motherboard
2x256 mushkin/ corsair/ crucial pc2700/3200 (quality ram is very important, also, I wouldnt get hung up to much on ECC ram ...IMO... if you really need the stability level where ECC ram is needed/makes a difference, you should NOT build the server yourself, buy one from DELL or HP )
Good powersupply, do your own research around the forums (you can pick up a 300 Watt Lite-On from hotdeals for around 20 that people, including myself have had very good luck with)
 
Dual channel is also useless/overkill. Unless you're using onboard nforce2 video, you're talking maybe a few percent difference in memory scores. I wouldn't go out of my way to use it for a server application. Another strike against nforce (for your application 🙂)
 
What are you serving which requires a 2000 mhz + cpu? The majority of servers (I did not say all) are far more limited by their hard drive subsystem (not to mention your internet connection bandwidth), and not processing power, but this really depends on the application.

Its not what I'm serving its mostly for the incoming data which will be statistically analyzed and some other things. I'm sure I won't use all 2000 MHz power at first but I may in the future so I just didn't want to buy one CPU now then another a few months later sort of thing. Data wise, most will be coming off the pipe not from the drives and at most I'll have < 100 KB/sec continous writes on the drive at a time. SCSI would be very nice but the cost of them + controller is too much unless I'm out of the loop.

2x256 mushkin/ corsair/ crucial pc2700/3200 (quality ram is very important, also, I wouldnt get hung up to much on ECC ram ...IMO... if you really need the stability level where ECC ram is needed/makes a difference, you should NOT build the server yourself, buy one from DELL or HP )

ECC RAM from crucial isn't much more money ($10), and the memory performance isn't my main focus (sure I don't want it slow because it will be feeding data to the processor for analysis) so the "hit" for ECC isn't that bothersome to me. I can't afford the cost of a DELL or HP with the premium on them they have ... afterall I'm spending < $1000 on the server. So I'm trying to get maximum stability/uptime with minimal cost. 99.5% uptime would be good even -- that is like 363 days a year out of 365. I could afford that sort of downtime.

Good powersupply, do your own research around the forums (you can pick up a 300 Watt Lite-On from hotdeals for around 20 that people, including myself have had very good luck with)

Do you know if Antec performance series towers with "Tru Power" I think they are called, are decent?

Thanks
 
Oh and by the way,

What does "registered" vs "unbuffered" RAM mean? I see that as an option as well but I've no clue what it is 🙁 (I'm not the hardware type really)

 
Registered memory is typically used when there are large quantities of memory in a system (Multi gigs in a system). It's purpose of to hold certain pieces of memory info to keep timings in check. All modules have their clock timings syncronized to provide burst transfer of data at the same time. Think of it this way. Suppose you have three buddies that all agree to go somewhere at a certain time. When there are a few of you, it's pretty much guaranteed everyone is where they need to be at the right time. As you add more and more people in the equation, there is more of a chance someone isn't going to get the message to do something. The extra chips make sure things are in check. Of course this does lead to a little more overhead. The time it takes to get everyone ready to do work leads to a one clock cycle delay. Not a big deal when reliable memory transfer is more important than raw throughput. The register is also known as a buffer so it is sometime called buffered memory. On the flipside, unbuffered memory is plain old DRAM.

Although registered memory does not have to include ECC, I have yet to see registered modules that do not include ECC capability. Seems to make sense since those that use registered memory usually want ECC as well. Not all chipsets support registered memory. There are also some that only support registered ECC memory like the Serverworks chipsets from Broadcom.

Windogg
 
ECC will not work in an NForce board.

With current AMD CPU dual channel is benefical when IGP is used. CPU has *minimal/if any* benefit.

NForce is a great little chipset but it does not have the best reputation for Linux stability. Something worth checking into further. I've only put Win2k onto my NForce boxes.

For a reliable little BSD box an AMD 760/761 board plus a SCSI drive would be fast, reliable, and speedy.
 
Originally posted by: addragyn
ECC will not work in an NForce board.

With current AMD CPU dual channel is benefical when IGP is used. CPU has *minimal/if any* benefit.

NForce is a great little chipset but it does not have the best reputation for Linux stability. Something worth checking into further. I've only put Win2k onto my NForce boxes.

For a reliable little BSD box an AMD 760/761 board plus a SCSI drive would be fast, reliable, and speedy.
Click to expand...

I agree, a Tyan Thunder with on-board SCSI would be great along with a pair of MP 2000 cpus and a 15k SCSI drive would make a great server.
 
For a reliable little BSD box an AMD 760/761 board plus a SCSI drive would be fast, reliable, and speedy

Any models in particular for the board? Are they costly? Single processor available? SCSI would be nice but the cost is huge 🙁 I want two drives in raid mirroring... wouldnt two IDE be ok for that purpose? (cheaper than SCSI too)

I agree, a Tyan Thunder with on-board SCSI would be great along with a pair of MP 2000 cpus and a 15k SCSI drive would make a great server.
I don't really need SMP as I've no experience coding SMP targetted stuff so I'd not really be able to take advantage....additionally, MP2000 processors are $225 CAN and the P4 2.4 GHz is $250 so...

but thanks for ideas, however out of my price league they may be 😉
 
Any models in particular for the board?

I don't have a favorite but I know you'll be able to get a good reccomendation here.

I want two drives in raid mirroring... wouldnt two IDE be ok for that purpose? (cheaper than SCSI too)

Absolutely IDE would be ok. But cheap IDE RAID means software RAID. SO make sure you can get *good* drivers for your system. A hardware IDE RAID card is gonna suck up any savings. If you want to do IDE RAID w/o a hardware RAID card then useing the OS to RAID the drive will likely be much easier. If you can deal with older equiptment SCSI can be just as cheap as IDE. I like SCSI because it doesn't have the CPU hit of IDE and better, faster drives are available. And for dev server the lower capacity of SCSI drives per $$ really shouldn't even matter. The Fujitsu MAN3184 for $86 is a nice deal. Find an Ultra2 card to stick it onto and you're running. If you don't mind eBay the ATTO UL2D is a good card supported by almost and can be found used very cheaply.
 
Wow addragyn your right!
I had always thought a drive like that Fujitsu would have been $300 US
bear in mind the last SCSI drive I dealt with was a 50 pin 1 gig'er in an olllllld Tandy 😉

never realized how economical they were...of course there is premium but its acceptable and space req isn't huge really like you said, performance and stability are HIGHLY rated over size for me. 18GB is perfect size actually.
 
Originally posted by: DWW
Jeff7181 I live in Canada.
Intel P4 2.4 GHz = $253
AMD Athlon 2.1 GHz = $367

Windogg its going to be nothing "mission critical". Just a BSD box for my own socket coding stuffs and misc works I'm headed towards. I know ECC sounds more than I need, but since its not going to always be within arms reach (I travel lots and connect remotely) a solid system is prefered.
Click to expand...


No idea where you buy your hardware but...
XP2600+ CPU s462/128k+256K .13 ( TPI reading; 2.1ghz ) $234

Prices are out of Vancouver Canada (Atic.ca)
Although I would never order from them there are plenty of places that price match in Canada.
ncix.com
vibecomputers.com
dangeo.com
 
Originally posted by: DWW
XP2800+ CPU s462/128k+512K .13 (333FSB; 2.08ghz ) Barton/32bit $340
at the same site
Click to expand...

And your comparing a 2.08Ghz Barton to a 2.4Ghz P4, why?
The 2600+ (2.1Ghz TBred) is already faster then the 2.4Ghz P4.
The 2800+ (2.08Ghz Barton) is faster then both!

Who cares about the Mhz its the actual performance that matters.

 
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