AMD Navi at TSMC 7nm

[krumme]

I know that. Maxwell was not that, it was more granularity, tiling and better DCC.

Dcc tiling and better granularity for that uplift? All good stuff but I think there is more fundamental to it. Those things is more efficiency than raw performance and Maxwell was also just a huge perf uplift.

What your take on ngg plus eg hbm pseudochannel uplift when enabled?

 

[krumme]

They haven’t launched Vega 64 properly yet so Navi won’t be ‘ready’ until 2020 at their current rate of progress. Ideally NAVI will be capable of competing out of the box rather than waiting for some fairy Godmother development team to tease performance out of some labyrinthine architecture designed for an AI driver team.
I’ve always hated NVIDIA since I experienced the evil swine cheating in texture/quality settings in BF1942 or thereabouts BUT AMD have shown just what not to do in the GPU space recently.
I’m certainly not going to get excited about Navi, ‘poor Volta’ and similar ludicrous statements leave a very bad taste in the mouth.

Agree they have launched fiji on 14nm with a higher fmax design. Heck the avfs isnt even working properly yet.
Its darn impossible to see where this ends.
We have to accept that gpu development is more about coding than transistors today. It will only be more in the future.
Transmeta and titanic here we come

 

[el etro]

Fermi consumed energy like a Thermoeletric plant and still outsold Evegreen and NIslands by 2/1. The magical green sticker sells for the average joe, yes. Remember FX5000 series.

 

[Excessi0n]

5970 raped it silly.

If you want to talk about dual-GPU cards, it was the increased performance per watt of GF110 over GF100 that allowed Nvidia to make the GTX 590.

 

[tential]

I perfectly agree.
But thats also shows that it doeant matter if Vega is beeing 20% faster in a driver update this december. So a bit faster than 1080ti in new aaa games or bf1 and rx56 faster than 1080. Wouldnt move much % share anyway.
Nv brand is just darn excellent. Better work than apple nike whatever. Thats besides solid engineering development.
Now gf is probably production limited anyway and hbm is expensive so from a business perspective for amd it really doesnt really move. It just sucks for us enthusiast. Our only hope is this ngg is baked into the ryzen apu and comming consoles. They have to make it work then.

Or, it's just too late?
If Vega got a 20% driver update in december, that won't make me turn around and buy Vega.... It's just too late for a lot of buyers. Instead of saying it's about Nvidia brand, or whatever, maybe it's about AMD.
Yes, Nvidia brand is strong, but AMD does itself NO favors by the amount of issues they have.
We have to wait for the GPU, the features, the drivers, etc. to all come together for months from AMD, while Nvidia is generally 95% of the way there are launch.

If AMD extracted 95% of their GPU perf at launch like Nvidia, we'd have a MASSIVELY different discussion.

And yes, before someone goes into AMD's economic situation, I do wonder, how many engineers would it take AMD to hire to have similar driver performance at launch as Nvidia.

If AMD wants marketshare with Navi, it needs to release with the performance from the START. Not promise it later.

Edit: Insanely enough, I think a 20% driver update come december for a high end GPU like Vega would solidify the fact that AMD can't get the driver performance there at launch. It could actually have a negative effect for AMD in that respect.

 

[krumme]

Or, it's just too late?
If Vega got a 20% driver update in december, that won't make me turn around and buy Vega.... It's just too late for a lot of buyers. Instead of saying it's about Nvidia brand, or whatever, maybe it's about AMD.
Yes, Nvidia brand is strong, but AMD does itself NO favors by the amount of issues they have.
We have to wait for the GPU, the features, the drivers, etc. to all come together for months from AMD, while Nvidia is generally 95% of the way there are launch.

If AMD extracted 95% of their GPU perf at launch like Nvidia, we'd have a MASSIVELY different discussion.

And yes, before someone goes into AMD's economic situation, I do wonder, how many engineers would it take AMD to hire to have similar driver performance at launch as Nvidia.

If AMD wants marketshare with Navi, it needs to release with the performance from the START. Not promise it later.

Edit: Insanely enough, I think a 20% driver update come december for a high end GPU like Vega would solidify the fact that AMD can't get the driver performance there at launch. It could actually have a negative effect for AMD in that respect.

As the gpu pipeline becomes more software controlled I think this lag in time is there to stay for next gen also. At least for amd. It just doesn't make sense to keep it on the shelves and it's not economically smart to force development time when its the high volume products that makes a difference for profitability.
If amd wanted to speed driver development 800 man would be standing idle between major generations for let's say half a year late high-end gpu perf. Those resources can be used better elsewhere.

Project management is always prioritizing between cost, quality and time. Many projects is darn expensive because they are forced through.

 

[maddie]

Or, it's just too late?
If Vega got a 20% driver update in december, that won't make me turn around and buy Vega.... It's just too late for a lot of buyers. Instead of saying it's about Nvidia brand, or whatever, maybe it's about AMD.

Edit: Insanely enough, I think a 20% driver update come december for a high end GPU like Vega would solidify the fact that AMD can't get the driver performance there at launch. It could actually have a negative effect for AMD in that respect.

Extremely poor reasoning.

Two scenarios:

1] AMD releases card with untapped driver potential leasing to initially poor relative performance. Result = poor sales.

2] AMD releases next card with good >great driver optimizations leading to competitive performance. Are you saying that the previous case [1], will cause a negative effect?

 

[ElFenix]

this thread has completely jumped the shark. Y'all need to find some self control.

AT Moderator ElFenix