Hmm I might buy a llano desktop to replace my living room pc. Only the gods know how much longer it will holdout. No more begging and pleading from my gf's nephews to use my computer to play BC2 or Black Ops.
It was taken in Singapore. Singapore was a British colony and everyone there speaks English. It's one of their official languages.
Perchance does anyone know of what LLano's MSRP will be? I hope amd prices the llano's competitively. If the 400 radeon core, 4 cpu core model will be under 200$. Then it completely negates the purpose of buying a dedicated gpu+cpu from the competition. Although it could backfire on amd too, because an Athlon x4+ 5570 cost about 150$.
Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
- 22,377
- 2
- 81
I never understood the hate for intel's graphics. Just because you bought a 300$ dell in 2002 doesn't meant you should expect awesome gaming performance from the included graphics chip.
AMD's what? Zacate is outperforming its competitor, Atom, and even previous generation Intel HD. I guarantee the GPU in Llano will perform better than Sandy Bridge's "crappy IGP". Unless of course you're referring the the 40SP Radeon 4250, in which case I agree but it is pretty clear AMD isn't going down that path anymore. My "dislike" comes from the fact that had just about the worst OpenGL drivers I've ever encountered the last time I used them (on a 4500HD).
StrangerGuy
Diamond Member
- May 9, 2004
- 8,443
- 124
- 106
Hmmm your right;
Athlon II x4 640 ~105$ on newegg.
Radeon 5570 ~55-60$ on newegg.
I dont think a Llano 4 core topend, is gonna cost more than 165$ or so, otherwise cost wise, it doesnt make much sense going for one (price /performance wise).
What advantages will a Llano have over a Athlon II x4 640 (3ghz) + Radeon 5570?
1) first thing is the 32nm SOI, means it ll probably use less power. (athlon II=45nm, Radeon5570=40nm)
2) Greatly increased GPGPU performance vs the 5570.
3) Unified Video Decoder 3.0 (vs 5570 UVD 2.2) (so 3D blu-ray for everyone?)
Disadvantage:
Will need fast DDR3, and you will need to make use of it (hopeing that ll be possible), to get more memory bandwidth.
DDR3-2133 (dual channel) only has like ~34.13 GB/s memory bandwidth, and I hope that these Llano will be able to use memory like that, running those speeds.
GPU wise it ll probably be 2-3 times faster than the Sandy Bridge gpu... that said... its still only ~5570 level performance. You should be able to game a few games on it though, and it should be out for 700$ or so. The "Intel Core i7-2630QM" usually goes into laptops around the 800$ mark (from looking at newegg), and the Llano appears to be faster.... but i think it ll sell cheaper.
i7-2630QM vs Engineering sample of a Llano/early drivers ect (only useing ddr3 1333 (hurts llano more)):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74
it still looks faster than the i7-2630.
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Well Amd could get make a killing in the mobile sector. I'm guessing the mobile llano will be be 50-60w. There's really no such thing as a mid-range gaming laptop for under 750$. It's either Integrated Graphics at 500$ or high end mobile gaming for 1000$. There's really no in between. In the desktop sector noone really cares about power consumption. Except for the HTPC crowd, but their market is too niche.
podspi
Golden Member
- Jan 11, 2011
- 1,965
- 71
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I think its important to keep in mind AMD doesn't sell graphics cards, they sell the GPUs that go into graphics cards. I'm sure they'd rather you buy Llano from them than having you buy an AIIX4 + 5570. That being said, I expect Llano to be awesome on mobile. Finally we're going to get some cheap gaming laptops!
Few things.
Llano is an interesting watershed for AMD in the mainstream. They may have turned the tables on intel by making the igp the issue, not nm & x86 prowess.
Intel have to work their asses off to compete in IGP, AMD just cut and paste a better gpu onto their fusion die and leapfrog them.
Again, given the igp is a cut and paste of the 5550, legacy drivers ought be simple to mod.
Recent news is that hybrid crossfire is a go & it adds ~75%
I think the roadmap includes a 25 watt llano, which should make for a serious laptop or corporate thin client.
I myself personally think a currently available brazos e350 fanless 18 watt dual core inc igp sounds great.
The killer product would be the same (40nm product) in 32nm (1/5 smaller -20%) or 28nm (3/10 smaller - 30%) (which is what they are shifting their nextgen discrete gpuS to - 28nm - same design initially)
So just being silly with numbers which may be wrong, but if I could have a fanless Brazos rig which ran 20-30% better re power or grunt than the alleged 18/9w current 40nm offerings, a right thinking guy would be sorely tempted for 24/7 builds.
The IGP is a die shrunk 5550 ddr3 ~1600 (40 > 32nm). There could be big advantages from such tiny traces between the gpu & cpu tho.
The cpu cores - 45>32nm (a big jump so tho its an existing design, it may also have a few tweaks & it may well impress). ie - a die shrink of 2 mature designs onto 1 bit of silicon.
The serpent in paradise for both, is the situation in japan & the supply chain. They cant sell even killer product, no matter how prescient re their own needs, if their OEM customers cant produce finished product for want of a minor japanese input. And the dominance of japan in some areas is scary - think - epoxy for boards, bleach (peroxide) for washing them, quality capacitors, wafers ...
IT manufacturing is going to be a v tough game til japan can get its grid working & tectonics to behave. Clearly global car plants are already closing.
These plants only work 24/7. Blackouts mean total shut down. Just saying, no one else knows either.
Thats their problem with bulldozer - new design AND new process - much harder & hence delays & hence brazos on proven 40nm being moved forward & BD delayed - being a node in front gives intel the luxury of testing new designs on proven nodes, then shrinking them.
& hence, also, perhaps, the board shooting the messenger and firing the MD. He had to take a punt given his resources, & 32nm w/ GF had the same old yield problems trying to do a shrink and new process simultaneously.
Llano, well done, will prove the node is OK at GF (which seems the case).
Llano is an interesting watershed for AMD in the mainstream. They may have turned the tables on intel by making the igp the issue, not nm & x86 prowess.
Intel have to work their asses off to compete in IGP, AMD just cut and paste a better gpu onto their fusion die and leapfrog them.
Again, given the igp is a cut and paste of the 5550, legacy drivers ought be simple to mod.
Recent news is that hybrid crossfire is a go & it adds ~75%
I think the roadmap includes a 25 watt llano, which should make for a serious laptop or corporate thin client.
I myself personally think a currently available brazos e350 fanless 18 watt dual core inc igp sounds great.
The killer product would be the same (40nm product) in 32nm (1/5 smaller -20%) or 28nm (3/10 smaller - 30%) (which is what they are shifting their nextgen discrete gpuS to - 28nm - same design initially)
So just being silly with numbers which may be wrong, but if I could have a fanless Brazos rig which ran 20-30% better re power or grunt than the alleged 18/9w current 40nm offerings, a right thinking guy would be sorely tempted for 24/7 builds.
The IGP is a die shrunk 5550 ddr3 ~1600 (40 > 32nm). There could be big advantages from such tiny traces between the gpu & cpu tho.
The cpu cores - 45>32nm (a big jump so tho its an existing design, it may also have a few tweaks & it may well impress). ie - a die shrink of 2 mature designs onto 1 bit of silicon.
The serpent in paradise for both, is the situation in japan & the supply chain. They cant sell even killer product, no matter how prescient re their own needs, if their OEM customers cant produce finished product for want of a minor japanese input. And the dominance of japan in some areas is scary - think - epoxy for boards, bleach (peroxide) for washing them, quality capacitors, wafers ...
IT manufacturing is going to be a v tough game til japan can get its grid working & tectonics to behave. Clearly global car plants are already closing.
These plants only work 24/7. Blackouts mean total shut down. Just saying, no one else knows either.
Thats their problem with bulldozer - new design AND new process - much harder & hence delays & hence brazos on proven 40nm being moved forward & BD delayed - being a node in front gives intel the luxury of testing new designs on proven nodes, then shrinking them.
& hence, also, perhaps, the board shooting the messenger and firing the MD. He had to take a punt given his resources, & 32nm w/ GF had the same old yield problems trying to do a shrink and new process simultaneously.
Llano, well done, will prove the node is OK at GF (which seems the case).
Guess I never paid enough attention to British or Chinese history, I thought it was just HK.
There are over 2000 kilometers from Singapore to China. Chinese history isn't particularly relevant in Singapore.
(Also, most of the map in se asia was printed in the British pink. They had way more than HK.)
There are over 2000 kilometers from Singapore to China. Chinese history isn't particularly relevant in Singapore.
(Also, most of the map in se asia was printed in the British pink. They had way more than HK.)
Gosh darnit, I feel like an idiot. I know that at some point I knew where Singapore was. Why I thought China now I have no idea and that's with a couple of days to straighten myself out.
Blitzvogel
Platinum Member
- Oct 17, 2010
- 2,012
- 23
- 81
There are plenty of laptops with Radeon 65xx and 66xx series GPUs in the $700 to $800 arena of play. There also Geforce GT 425M and GT 540M machines in this area too. While they are "low end" relatively speaking when it comes to including desktop and mobile graphics, for laptops, they are medium end and most games should play very fluently on them at 720p with medium settings, though many games would have no problem at higher settings at that resolution.
Acer with Phenom II x4 + Radeon 6650 1 GB for $649
Lenovo with i5-480M + Radeon 6730 1 GB for $749
Of course Llano will be bandwidth limited, but users will still enjoy very good graphics performance for the price, well beyond either of the consoles in terms of sheer graphics computing capability. For a person like me who's only mandatory graphical need means being able to play Battlefield 2 fluently at max settings + 2x AA at native resolution hehe. Llano will open up a wide range of performance to a very low price point.
A Llano system with 4 cores @ 2.0 GHz + 400 SP @ 600 MHz + 4 GB DDR3-1866 (though I really hope they push the spec up to beyond DDR3-2000 soon though to level out the bandwidth conundrum) in a 14.1 in chassis with a 1600 x 900 monitor is right up my alley. I see such a system easily retailing for $650. There is much cost to be saved by not having separate GPU and GPU memory dies + system architecture. I'd love to see a rundown of manufacturing costs to produce such a system before it's marked up for MSRP. Cooling should be simplified to a degree as well, since a cooler will only need to hit the APU and the Southbridge aka "Fusion Controller Hub".
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