AMD is for freedom! (Socketed Kabini / AM1, versus Broadwell+ BGA)

[VirtualLarry]

I was just thinking about how Intel intends to move their consumer sockets to BGA, which means a significant loss of freedom in how a consumer configures their system. (More e-waste too.)

Yet, at the same time, AMD is moving from BGA to sockets, with their AM1 platform, and socketed, essentially, SoCs. This is adding freedom to the low-end consumer space.

I have to applaud AMD for their decision, and hope it finds widespread market acceptance. So much so, that it causes Intel to reverse their decision about BGA-only CPUs in the very near future.

 

[Arkaign]

Agree 1000%.

I don't mind them making soldered SoC/NUC stuff, but I find the rest of it pretty sad. Particularly when you get to midrange and above stuff. Imagine the 5770k coming out, but you can only get it pre-soldered to a mediocre Intel-branded mobo. Bleh.

I'd love for AMD to make a comeback of sorts. I have no allegiance to any tech companies at all, and love both my Intel and AMD boxes, but AMD hasn't been super competitive for a while now.

 

[cbn]

I don't mind BGA as long as it is cheap.

For example, recently ECS had their Kabini E1-2100 BGA boards on sale for $31.99 After rebate (with free shipping). If that same processor was socketed I'll bet the combo together would have been a lot more expensive.

In fact, with that mentioned, I would even go so far as to say I would also like some soldered on RAM (with an additional RAM slot for DIMM) in addition to some fast eMMC (with additional SATA ports for add-on SSD and HDD) if it brought the total price even lower.

 

[Arkaign]

Unfortunately the value pretty much sucks for Intel BGA stuff :

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-D34010WY...ords=intel+nuc

Yeah it's small. But the $/value is garbage.

 

[MongGrel]

So AMD is supposed to equal Freedom Fries or something.

Sorry I just don't get the analogy.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't mind BGA as long as it is cheap.
For example, recently ECS had their Kabini E1-2100 BGA boards on sale for $31.99 After rebate (with free shipping). If that same processor was socketed I'll bet the combo together would have been a lot more expensive.

But by the same token, I didn't buy that one, because of how slow it was being a dual-core. I'm more interested in their quad-core models. If that ECS board + chip had been AM1 socketed, I could have purchased it, and then dropped in a quad-core later. To me, a dual-core (1.0Ghz?) Kabini is next to useless.

 

[cbn]

I couldn't find any AM1 motherboards available in retail yet, but I did find the quad core Athlon 5350 in stock at the following retailers:

http://www.provantage.com/amd-ad535...rce=googleps&gclid=CN6UzsWQqL0CFcqUfgodgWUAdQ

http://www.esaitech.com/amd-cpu-ad5...paign=ga-pla&gclid=CKrt3dGQqL0CFcqUfgodgWUAdQ

http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-athlon-5350-am1-2.05g-2mb/amd_ad5350jahmbox~buv8029.html

http://www.thenerds.net/AMD.ATHLON_5...FcuSfgodJX0AoQ

http://www.lotnllc.com/730143304641?language=en&currency=USD&gclid=CIyhvaueqL0CFYZafgodN2IAEA

Cheapest Price is Provantage @ $60.53.

 

[bullzz]

@Arkaign-
what is the percentage of people who overclock? low
what is the percentage of people who upgrade their processor alone? low

value system buyers dont care LGA or BGA. they are looking for perf/$

 

[witeken]

I was just thinking about how Intel intends to move their consumer sockets to BGA, which means a significant loss of freedom in how a consumer configures their system. (More e-waste too.)

As far as I know, that won't happen.

 

[cytg111]

What?

 

[biostud]

Since Intel already is changing their sockets ~every 2 years, and chipsets every year, the upgrade "CPU only" is already a very limited possibility. But it severely limits the freedom of choosing your own combinations.

But I can't understand if motherboard vendors would like that move, since the combination possibilities are huge. Gigabyte has ~32 socket 1150 boards and intel has ~20 socket 1150 processors, so that's 640 possible combinations.

 

[Maximilian]

@Arkaign-
what is the percentage of people who overclock? low
what is the percentage of people who upgrade their processor alone? low

value system buyers dont care LGA or BGA. they are looking for perf/$

Umm you know this is anandtech right? Not mumsnet.

Props to AMD, im not keen on BGA stuff.

 

[ShintaiDK]

OP must have missed AMDs love for BGA too.

Also Intel isnt doing BGA only. Thats another runaway myth thats already been debunked several times.

 

[mrmt]

I don't mind them making soldered SoC/NUC stuff, but I find the rest of it pretty sad. Particularly when you get to midrange and above stuff. Imagine the 5770k coming out, but you can only get it pre-soldered to a mediocre Intel-branded mobo. Bleh.

That pain you won't have, as Intel has quit the MB market.

 

[MisterMac]

I kind of see potential for BGA - for us enthusiasts without thousands to drop each year on a desktop.


If we go away from the extreme enthusiasts - how many of us that bought sandy upgraded on ivy?

How many of us upgrade each generation?


BGA flexibility has to offset some gains of course - but i expect a proper mobo + BGA setup to be ALOT more OC friendly that a LGA array.

That'd be worth it ALOT more to me - since it's been years since i've done a dropinn.
Face the facts that - unless we get a MT\ISA adoption revolution in everything we're looking at below 15% gains each 2 years.

And that's a best case scenario.

Most of us want more than 15% to upgrade anyway.

 

[Vesku]

So they sell the 5350 for $60 retail yet the only 5200 mini-itx soldered board that you could buy for the last few months was $150 retail? So for some reason we'll be able to get a socketed 5350 mini-itx for around the $100 I was targeting even though the soldered was never delivered at that price, weird.

 

[VirtualLarry]

BGA flexibility has to offset some gains of course - but i expect a proper mobo + BGA setup to be ALOT more OC friendly that a LGA array.

I'm not sure why you would feel that way. If Intel is so hell-bent on locking out upgradability, what makes you think that they won't also lock-out overclocking? Or rather, it would most likely cost you, for every multiplier-step of OC. Sell the mobo with a psuedo-unlocked CPU, that requires a special program and a purchased code to upgrade.

Intel has dabbled in software-upgradable CPUs before, remember.

Think of it as the hardware equivalent of game DLC. Want to unlock the newest item? Want to unlock hyperthreading? Unlock two more cores? Unlock AVX opcodes? Unlock a 2x multiplier boost? Gotta pay to play! Think of the billions that Intel could make, from hardware DLC, as long as they ship the mobo + CPU soldered combo with those features intact (not disabled due to actual silicon defects).

Edit: Apparently, I'm not the first one to imagine this scheme taken to extremes. Here's a VR-Zone article about it.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-expands-its-software-upgradable-oem-cpu-lineup/13310.html

Edit: I just thought of something more extreme. Tie those hardware DLC to a subscription model, so you have to pay every year to keep your CPU features, otherwise your CPU reverts to the slowest base model again. Ouch!

 

[Insert_Nickname]

If we go away from the extreme enthusiasts - how many of us that bought sandy upgraded on ivy?

How many of us upgrade each generation?

For me at least, LGA has nothing to do with "upgrading" CPUs between generations. The "last" true multi generation socket was (Super)Socket 7, and that has been quite awhile. Nowadays both Intel and AMD change socket between generation anyway, so there is limited choice. AMD has had a bit of backwards compatibility though (F.x. limited AM3 CPU support in AM2 boards).

What matters with LGA is the choice of which CPU to put in what mainboard.

F.x. If I have the need to put a 4771 in a cheapo H81 mainboard, shouldn't I have that choice? Or if I want to pair a Celeron with an ultra-expensive mainboard? (for some strange and slightly terrifying reason...)

(OK, the above might contain a bit of hyperbole, but it gets the point across... )

 

[Erenhardt]

Anyone have a review of AM1 athlon? I'm more and more interested in it.
I wonder how many SOC generations per socket AMD is going to release.
Socketable SoC seems like a cool idea. You change a chip, everything* changes.
*not really

 

[AtenRa]

So they sell the 5350 for $60 retail yet the only 5200 mini-itx soldered board that you could buy for the last few months was $150 retail? So for some reason we'll be able to get a socketed 5350 mini-itx for around the $100 I was targeting even though the soldered was never delivered at that price, weird.

That is because so far all Kabini APUs were Embedded and thus priced higher. Those AM1 APUs and motherboards are made for the retail only market and they cost lower.

 

[cbn]

But by the same token, I didn't buy that one, because of how slow it was being a dual-core. I'm more interested in their quad-core models. If that ECS board + chip had been AM1 socketed, I could have purchased it, and then dropped in a quad-core later. To me, a dual-core (1.0Ghz?) Kabini is next to useless.

I'm mostly interested in the low end dual core socket Kabini (clocked 1.45 Ghz)....but It would be nice to upgrade to the quad core at a later date (or even better yet one of the Puma APUs)

My big problem, so far, with this platform is the price. It seems rather expensive compared to what I could buy from Intel (Bay Trail-D, 1037U, G1610 or G1820, etc).

With that mentioned, at least AMD jaguar has AES-NI and AVX (which none of the Intel processors in the same price range have).

 

[OCGuy]

A wise man once said:

"Those who are willing to give up essential performance for temporary freedom, deserve neither"

 

[MongGrel]

He he, nice twisted quote.

 

[Techhog]

Where did you hear the BGA-only nonsense?You're one of the known AMD fanboys here, so you're gonna need to back up statements like this...

 

[Bubbleawsome]

There are only two scenarios in the AMD/Intel business.

1. AMD goes out of business too soon, Intel screws everyone over.

2. AMD lasts long enough for intel to get cocky and start soldering stuff like this, AMD makes a move and gets competitive again.