Yes Vega is ok, or more that ok vs mighty Intel iGPU-s.People are assuming vega has poor performance. It does not. Mobile Vega is extremely fast and power efficient. That is why AMD continues to use it.
That video has low (and 1 medium setting) and 50% resolution scale at 1080p. The video Ryan showed was high settings at 1080p with 100% resolution scaling. It really is a strong showing for Tigerlake but not knowing more details about power settings as well as it being single player only in Ryan's video makes it hard to judge how impressive it is. As always, we'll have to wait for independent reviews to see how it stacks up.seems to even run better on 2500u than in Ryan's video
and this is the multiplayer not the campaign
RDNA1 is still better in absolute performance and performance/W, but performance/size ratio is probably on the side of Vega.People are assuming vega has poor performance. It does not. Mobile Vega is extremely fast and power efficient. That is why AMD continues to use it.
Why would you need an equivalent number of RDNA CUs? it is clear that, on DDR4 at least, that 8CU RDNA will be way too much.I'm starting to think that AMD is sticking with VEGA on the 7nm APUs for footprint reasons. From what I'm reading, the equivalent number of NAVI/RDNA CUs would consume a non-trivial amount more die area than the existing VEGA cores do. Given how tight AMD is on wafer capacity at the moment, I don't see them wanting to put any more die area towards the iGPU than they absolutely have to.
If Cezanne can bring the increased core capabilities of Zen3 and the increased effective cache performance of the unified 8 core CCX, and provide another 10% clock speed uplift on the Vega CUs, it will still be a worthy generational upgrade to Renoir. Now, will it be better than Tigerlake 4C in mobile? I don't know. Obviously, it'll have a core count advantage. It'll have a tweaked process. Tigerlake should rectify a lot of what was wrong with Ice Lake, meaning more Mhz and lower power draw. It'll also have a further improved iGPU. It'll bring with it Intel's noted advantages when it comes to extracting performance and low latency from their memory controllers as well. By that point, I would hope that AMD is specifying DDR4-3600 for their mobile platform, and maybe faster LPDDR4X for those types of systems, to help deal with the greater memory demands of a faster iGPU.
Either way, I still see the biggest loser here being Nvidia as they continue to loose volume on their MX lines of dGPUs. I suspect that, as Renoir has made everything from the MX330 on down completely irrelevant, and bumps up against the MX350 (which is essentially a low power 1050 mobile), we'll see Cezanne do the same for the MX350 as well, and start to push slightly into low power, cut down mobile 1650 territory. Look at the current laptop market. Whereas a few years ago, Mobile 1050 laptops were commanding prices at $900+, you can get 4GB 1650s in the under $700 category now.
As AMD and Intel improve their mobile iGPU products, and memory technology also moves along, there's less and less of a demand for the volume/Low end mobile dGPU products. Nvidia is going to have to do some more innovation in that area to keep their volumes up in that market.
I got around 3.2mm^2/CU for Renoir, all included (ROPS, ACEs, caches, etc). Was going to write a post on a comparison to VEGA 7 CUs, but stopped. Was doing this because I think that VEGA (Renoir) is modified and not the old Vega. VEGA 7 is 8x and Renoir 4800U has 8CU, 1.75 GHz and 15W. Roughly extrapolating out to 120W max for the 64CU portion of the GPU @ 1.75GHzHas anybody done size measurements of each CU of all the designs on the different nodes? Didn't find anything searching around.
But, AMD doesn't have a lot of wins for their entry level dGPUs, so it make sense to beef up their iGPU. Since RDNA2 should be more power efficient, have variable rate shading, and better compression than Vega, why not just leave the 8 CUs if it won't take up extra die space. The current Vega 8 just isn't enough for entry level 1080p gaming, but an RDNA2 8 CU, even with DDR4 would probably do well enough.Why would you need an equivalent number of RDNA CUs? it is clear that, on DDR4 at least, that 8CU RDNA will be way too much.
22CU RDNA = 36CU Polaris 20 (more or less)
6CU RDNA should be faster than 8CU Vega at the same clock.
With LPDDR5 and RDNA 2 things starts to change A LOT, but AMD will be killing his own mobile entry level dgpu market there.
That doesn't make any real sense. AMD used to have the beefiest iGPU around (Kaveri, Carrizo) and it did them very little good. OEMs have repeatedly demonstrated that they will pair top-end iGPUs with dGPUs making them mostly irrelevant in actual products. iGPU-driven OEM machines make up too small of OEM's total sales to be terribly relevant to AMD's total revenue stream.But, AMD doesn't have a lot of wins for their entry level dGPUs, so it make sense to beef up their iGPU.
AMD created an H version of Renoir and it is forcing OEMs to use them with their dGPUs...But, AMD doesn't have a lot of wins for their entry level dGPUs, so it make sense to beef up their iGPU. Since RDNA2 should be more power efficient, have variable rate shading, and better compression than Vega, why not just leave the 8 CUs if it won't take up extra die space. The current Vega 8 just isn't enough for entry level 1080p gaming, but an RDNA2 8 CU, even with DDR4 would probably do well enough.
I remember when mobile Renoir launched, that it was said than the H versions were only for use along a dGPU and that was the reason for the H versions to have lower CUs compared to the U versions of the same core count.Nothing's "forcing" OEMs to do so. OEMs choose to do so for their own reasons.
They do, other than the clock difference. The 4900HS has 8 CUs enabled.Ideally, you would want that the high mobile TDP skus to be the same configuration as the desktop ones, they are not.
Clevo and Schenker sometimes uses configurations others barely use. They were the only one to use the first generation Iris Pro.So far the only solution with a 4800H and no discrete GPU is the Schenker VIA Pro, which should be a Clevo o similar product.
Lenovo is bringing in the Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Pro this month which is a 14" device sporting 4900H, 4800H or 4600H. No dGPU, it's ultrabook class.So far the only solution with a 4800H and no discrete GPU is the Schenker VIA Pro, which should be a Clevo o similar product.
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