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AMD breaks some DX9 games with Adrenalin drivers, they won't be fixing it?

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
126
If it didn't come form a AMD person, I wouldn't have believed it.
Basically, they fubared some DX9 games, in this case, C&C titles (which are still popular), and said this drivel...
This title is from 2007, so we are unlikely to devote any valuable engineering resources to this issue, which is most likely caused by outdated API modules.
https://community.amd.com/message/2839053#2839053
I bet the fix is only a few lines of code as well.

Seriously AMD? Way to drive more people to the competition. :rolleyes:
 

Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,947
750
136
If it didn't come form a AMD person, I wouldn't have believed it.
Basically, they fubared some DX9 games, in this case, C&C titles (which are still popular), and said this drivel...

https://community.amd.com/message/2839053#2839053
I bet the fix is only a few lines of code as well.

Seriously AMD? Way to drive more people to the competition. :rolleyes:
Overblown. The guy that said that is nothing more than forum tech support. He severely overstepped his paygrade on this.
 

JimKiler

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2002
3,483
129
106
If it didn't come form a AMD person, I wouldn't have believed it.
Basically, they fubared some DX9 games, in this case, C&C titles (which are still popular), and said this drivel...

https://community.amd.com/message/2839053#2839053
I bet the fix is only a few lines of code as well.

Seriously AMD? Way to drive more people to the competition. :rolleyes:
Is that person saying the game has outdated API modules? If so why would AMD need to fix it?
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
126
Overblown. The guy that said that is nothing more than forum tech support. He severely overstepped his paygrade on this.
Then they should modify the comment. It is all over, and being picked up by major sites. It just makes AMD look bad, when they could easily fix this in less than a day.

Is that person saying the game has outdated API modules? If so why would AMD need to fix it?
Has nothing to do with the game. It has to do with bugs in AMD's drivers.
Sure, DX9 is old, but, there are still *tons* of games that use it, it is no excuse.

You can install the older DX9 support dll, and the game will still work fine, but, that is a rather complex process, and will not work on drivers that are signed.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,019
2,750
136
Is that person saying the game has outdated API modules? If so why would AMD need to fix it?
Well those games used to work with pre-Adrenalin drivers so it is a problem on AMD's side that they broke those 'outdated API modules' with their new driver?
 

Shamrock

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,293
320
136
Yup, I still play C&C 3: Kane's Wrath, and it does crash it. It "app crash cnc3ep1.exe caused a exception in exception handler fault in atiumdag.dll file" I still have to use the relive 17.11.2 drivers
 
Last edited:

Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
453
199
116
The list of games is growing too, it affects DX8 games as well

  • The Witcher: Enhanced Edition
  • The Witcher 2 (some users)
  • Guild Wars 2 (some users)
  • Command & Conquer Red Alert 3
  • Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 Uprising
  • Command & Conquer 3 (all expansions/versions)
  • Command & Conquer 4 - Tiberian Twilight
  • Skyrim
  • The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (broken with enhanced sync enabled; worked previously with Crimson)
  • StarCraft 2 (some users)
  • League of Legends (some users / RX4xx - "display driver has stopped responding and has recovered")
  • CS:GO (some users)
  • Battle for Middle Earth 1 - 2
  • Tales of Berseria
  • Ms. Splosion Man
  • S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Lost Alpha (in DirectX 9 mode)
  • Painkiller: Black Edition
  • PES 2017
  • Payday 2 (works, but unstable)
  • Source engine games (unstable)
  • INJUSTICE: Gods among us (crashes after a short while, works fine with Crimson)
  • Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale
  • Spellforce 2
  • Mini Ninjas
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7ncr3y/regarding_amd_and_the_lack_of_directx_9_support_a/
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,937
1,046
126
I hope for AMD’s sake that forum guy was just someone who ran his mouth off without having a clue. If he’s really speaking for the company, there’s no way they can survive this. Heck, Skyrim was one of Steam’s top sellers for 2017.

Some people like to harp on about DX12/Vulkan but it’s virtually irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. There are dozens of new games coming out right now that still target Windows XP/DX9 as a baseline. Compared to DX9, all other APIs are just a drop in the bucket.
 
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May 11, 2008
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I hope they fix it but i have a hard time believing they will do.
From now on, it is good to maintain a copy of 17.11.2 drivers i guess.
I find it a very stupid move.
I personally still have a lot of dx9 games as many people still do.
And 16.9.2 for to play wolfenstein new order on rx cards.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
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I'd be interested in anyone with an AMD card + that driver version testing other DX9 games like say Bioshock 1-2 (non "remastered"), Portal 1-2, Dragon Age Origins, Shadowrun Returns, etc, stuff that uses DX9 (easy to see in RivaTuner overlay) that isn't on the list. Just how much have they broken?

I hope for AMD’s sake that forum guy was just someone who ran his mouth off without having a clue. If he’s really speaking for the company, there’s no way they can survive this. Heck, Skyrim was one of Steam’s top sellers for 2017.
^ Agreed. CS:GO, Skyrim, Stardew Valley are way more popular than AC:Origins in terms of actual players. I'm hoping "AMD Ray" overstepped his knowldge too and that a fix is in the works, because if AMD have just broken a large swathe of older games then walked away with a middle finger raised to consumers, first with a "unlikely to devote any valuable engineering resources to this issue" then by prematurely locking support threads and ignoring other newer "DX9 is broken" ones, then it's goodbye AMD...
 

PhonakV30

Senior member
Oct 26, 2009
979
350
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I really don't upgrade to latest driver.I just use old version like 17.10.2 or 17.7.1
 

Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,947
750
136
I think this is overblown on so many levels. There is no guarantee from AMD or Nvidia that games will run forever. These games were designed for OS that MS doesn't support, were supported with driver versions from several years ago(and still work with those versions), and for hardware that no one is using anymore. AMD added in overlay functionality to Adrenalin. Overlays weren't even a thing when some of these games were released. All of the smart people I know have dedicated boxes to play old school games. It's the only way to guarantee compatibility. This is most definitely a case where users cannot have their cake and eat it too. You don't get modern functionality when applied to outdated applications.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
789
136
Well said. If you want to run older games, use older hardware. I don't think functionality is determined by game popularity. A setback of PC gaming, but it is what it is. I can see why people are upset if this turns out to be something that doesn't get resolved but if you're buying brand new hardware to play old games I feel like you're just asking for this sort of thing to happen.
 
May 11, 2008
18,324
836
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I think this is overblown on so many levels. There is no guarantee from AMD or Nvidia that games will run forever. These games were designed for OS that MS doesn't support, were supported with driver versions from several years ago(and still work with those versions), and for hardware that no one is using anymore. AMD added in overlay functionality to Adrenalin. Overlays weren't even a thing when some of these games were released. All of the smart people I know have dedicated boxes to play old school games. It's the only way to guarantee compatibility. This is most definitely a case where users cannot have their cake and eat it too. You don't get modern functionality when applied to outdated applications.
It is nice when you buy hardware that games still can be played.
These kind of cases are very important when people decide to upgrade their gpu hardware again.
Of course there has to be a limit , some really old games will just not run because of os differences.
Virtual machines are great for that and then it is nice to have a modern powerful card.
I think it is nonsense that these games worked before with drivers a version back and now do not.
If the new overlay software in combination with dx9 and dx8 is the issue, AMD should just disable it when dx8 and dx9 is detected.
A simple line of text in the release note of the driver that there is no overlay support for dx9 or dx8 games is sufficient.
That way everybody is happy.
Now it is unnanounced that dx9 compatibility is broken.
 
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zlatan

Senior member
Mar 15, 2011
580
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Has nothing to do with the game. It has to do with bugs in AMD's drivers.
No, not really. The underlying problem is the game itself. A lot of application do some illegal things in the code, and the driver has to do some workaround to manage it. Without these modules the application won't run, because the code simply violates the API rules. Every IHV implementation for an API has a standard layer, and a lot of extension modules for that. These will allow to run the non-standard games, with illegal codes, but a module have to define the driver how to handle the code. Now if the standard layer is redisigned for a new feature, some modules may become incompatible, and the non-standard game unable to run in a standard environment.
 
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Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
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It is nice when you buy hardware that games still can be played.
These kind of cases are very important when people decide to upgrade their gpu hardware again.
Of course there has to be a limit , some really old games will just not run because of os differences.
Virtual machines are great for that and then it is nice to have a modern powerful card.
I think it is nonsense that these games worked before with drivers a version back and now do not.
If the new overlay software in combination with dx9 and dx8 is the issue, AMD should just disable it when dx8 and dx9 is detected.
A simple line of text in the release note of the driver that there is no overlay support for dx9 or dx8 games is sufficient.
That way everybody is happy.
Now it is unnanounced that dx9 compatibility is broken.
Or affected peoples could use Crimson drivers. I get that people are perturbed, but welcome to using PCs. They aren't perfect and don't try to be. Stuff breaks and the user is responsible for the work around until it gets fixed. If it can be fixed. Rolling back drivers is a common fix and simple. From my perspective the up roar is a bunch of worthless noise from entitled, emotionally troubled mankids. Games that still have live development like Guild Wars 2, League of Legends, etc, will be fixed. No question about it. Either through the driver or AMD working with the devs. Other games where there is no dev support probably not. I think a good chunk of those games are ones that didn't work on modern hardware/OS until they got re-released to GoG. The people that did that are responsible for compatibility.
 
May 11, 2008
18,324
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Or affected peoples could use Crimson drivers. I get that people are perturbed, but welcome to using PCs. They aren't perfect and don't try to be. Stuff breaks and the user is responsible for the work around until it gets fixed. If it can be fixed. Rolling back drivers is a common fix and simple. From my perspective the up roar is a bunch of worthless noise from entitled, emotionally troubled mankids. Games that still have live development like Guild Wars 2, League of Legends, etc, will be fixed. No question about it. Either through the driver or AMD working with the devs. Other games where there is no dev support probably not. I think a good chunk of those games are ones that didn't work on modern hardware/OS until they got re-released to GoG. The people that did that are responsible for compatibility.
Rolling back drivers can cause major issues as have many here experienced. From system reboots to very low fps numbers. It is a last resort, not something that should be seen as standard practice.
When drivers did work, it is a disservice to just break compatibility with everything. What i have written in my previous post is much more customer friendly.
If AMD no long wants to support DX8 and DX9 they should make this clear, but this will influence the gpu upgrade choice of people.
 
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Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
453
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Overblown? Breaking DX9 and older support, practically making at least 5000 games bugged or unplayable, and then refusing to fix the issue is overblown?!

All because of what? an overlay? MSI AfterBurner works with every DX version and doesn't cause a single issue, If AMD can't do a proper overlay, then disabling it would be the ideal solution.
 
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Jakobx

Junior Member
Sep 29, 2015
13
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AMD already confirmed on twitter that they will issue a hotfix as soon as this is resolved. Just as expected.
 

Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,947
750
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Overblown? Breaking DX9 and older support, practically making at least 5000 games bugged or unplayable, and then refusing to fix the issue is overblown?!

All because of what? an overlay? MSI AfterBurner works with every DX version and doesn't cause a single issue, If AMD can't do a proper overlay, then disabling it would be the ideal solution.
I think you are the only one here claiming DX9 isn't compatible. It's some games. The major games out there are asterisks'd with some users. Clearly it's not all of DX9.

https://twitter.com/CatalystMaker/status/948227463188017152
Happy 2018 everyone!! I am seeing some stories pop up about AMD not supporting some old games. That is absolutely not true, we are identifying the bug and working on a fix asap. C&C, Witcher, BfME, etc will be working again.
https://twitter.com/CatalystMaker/status/948224999726501890
That is not true. We will for sure fix this bug with SAGE engine games in an upcoming hotfix.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
901
89
91
It was a bad answer from AMD's representative, the outrage would have been avoided if he simply had said they've gotten aware of the issue. They should have a list with standard answers.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
126
Dang AMD fake news spreads like wildfire these days. Guess not much really happening in the tech world these days.
It isn't fake news if AMD's own people are spouting nonsense.
They DID correct it today... after a TON of bad PR.
https://community.amd.com/message/2839053#2839053
Heck, that guy really needs to be fired.
He locked the thread up after his lame comment, and then people took it to other places, and the whole thing blew up.


https://community.amd.com/message/2839053#2839053
UPDATE:
Thanks for all your feedback! Based on the information received for this particular issue, I'm glad to inform you that we are looking to get this issue resolved as soon as possible.

I'll let everyone know once a fix is available.
Some of you that thought this behavior was fine, all I can say is o_O.
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
5,548
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I am glad they will at least be fixing it (so they say). Companies should be held accountable by their customers, whether AMD, Nvidia, Intel, or anyone.
 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,504
2,245
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It isn't fake news if AMD's own people are spouting nonsense.
They DID correct it today... after a TON of bad PR.
Heck, that guy really needs to be fired.
He locked the thread up after his lame comment, and then people took it to other places, and the whole thing blew up.


https://community.amd.com/message/2839053#2839053


Some of you that thought this behavior was fine, all I can say is o_O.
The bozo should be punished for his actions.

I see no real issue with reverting drivers to working ones till a fix is issued for the old games.
 

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