Youre wasting your time there, he will never acknowledge it and will probably pull some marketshare figures or something along those lines to prove it
Youre wasting your time there, he will never acknowledge it and will probably pull some marketshare figures or something along those lines to prove it
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
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ATi's hardware doesn't need special coding to perform, there's no scenarion which a certain game is completely unplayable on ATi hardware because it wasn't properly coded. ATi hardware runs standard DirectX software like any nVidia hardware do. The only difference is that unlike TWIMTBP which is designed to optimize games exclusively on nVidia hardware impairing the performance on ATi hardware, games optimized for ATi hardware will perform also great on nVidia hardware.
Facts? Yeah right. :roll:
Wait a minute... If I'm not mistaken you're saying this:
1) nVidia-optimized code doesn't run well on ATi hardware.
2) ATi-optimized code runs well on nVidia hardware.
To me the obvious conclusion would be that it's nVidia that doesn't need special coding to perform, since even ATi-optimized code runs without problems.
On the other hand, nVidia-optimized code can't be handled properly by ATi-hardware. ATi hardware being the one that NEEDS the optimized code to perform.
Right?
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
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So, wait a minute... When the x1900XTX beats the 7900GTX it's a win for ATI, but now that NV has fastest single gpu out it still "turned out poorly for NVIDIA"? What is the measure of success?
Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
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The difference is, the X1900XTX was the direct competitor to the 7900GTX at the same price point and it was clearly a better card in terms of IQ/performance (I think the XT was the direct competitor, but both of them was better overall compared to the 7900GTX).
This is quite different to this generation where a mid range $299 part was ~95% of the performance of a fastest single GPU card launched with a price tag of $649 while being faster than the $399 offering (GTX260).
edit - what happened to your rig nitro??
1. That mid range part, HD4890, came out well into the lifecycle of the GTX 280/285.
2. The fastest single chip card was the X1950XT back then, and it is the GTX285 today.
3. Price/Performance ratio was never even mentioned.
You're using double standards and measuring who "won" which GPU generation by use of ludicrous analogies.
I think it's more of a pain when you are oblivious to the facts and miss the point.
The main problem here is that a lot of people come to these forums for information and help, not patriotism and capitalism regarding a friggin GPU manufaturer. What the hell does marketshare have to do with my wallet and my games? um NADA.
No it isn't. I'm surprised how this keeps coming up.
The 4870 is comparable to the GTX 260, the 4890 is comparable to the GTX 275.
That is why the GTX 275 was released, to have a counterpart to the 4890. I'd still buy a 4890, but that's beside the point.
I love how people make their own performance analysis up on the spot, regardless of obvious business implications. If the 4890 was competition to the crown of the GTX 285, then nVidia would have priced the GTX 285 in the same area that the 4890 is at.
The 4870 is comparable to the GTX 260, the 4890 is comparable to the GTX 275.
That is why the GTX 275 was released, to have a counterpart to the 4890. I'd still buy a 4890, but that's beside the point.
I love how people make their own performance analysis up on the spot, regardless of obvious business implications. If the 4890 was competition to the crown of the GTX 285, then nVidia would have priced the GTX 285 in the same area that the 4890 is at.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
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http://www.hardocp.com/article...wxMCwsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q=
"Developer Relations
Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.
On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive."
Usually nVidia optimized games uses a lot of shaders with dependant texture reads, low polygon count, lots of high resolution textures and lots of very short shaders, while ATi optimized games have a higher polygon count, less high resolution textures and lots of shader math.
Lost Planet, a game which was created on Xbox 360 which should shine on ATi hardware, runs considerably slower on it than on nVidia, the same with Deadspace, while Demigod, GRID and HAWX runs fast on nVidia, but faster on ATi, who's more fair? With ATi heading the DX11 hardware launch and ATi had closer relation ship with Microsoft for DX11 development, will make sure that it will run great on both vendors the way it mean to be run since ATi wasn't the one to cried to Microsoft to lower it's requirement for DX10 compliance, something that affected ATi when it launched the HD 2900XT Flop Edition.
"Developer Relations
Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.
On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive."
Usually nVidia optimized games uses a lot of shaders with dependant texture reads, low polygon count, lots of high resolution textures and lots of very short shaders, while ATi optimized games have a higher polygon count, less high resolution textures and lots of shader math.
Lost Planet, a game which was created on Xbox 360 which should shine on ATi hardware, runs considerably slower on it than on nVidia, the same with Deadspace, while Demigod, GRID and HAWX runs fast on nVidia, but faster on ATi, who's more fair? With ATi heading the DX11 hardware launch and ATi had closer relation ship with Microsoft for DX11 development, will make sure that it will run great on both vendors the way it mean to be run since ATi wasn't the one to cried to Microsoft to lower it's requirement for DX10 compliance, something that affected ATi when it launched the HD 2900XT Flop Edition.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: evolucion8
http://www.hardocp.com/article...wxMCwsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q=
"Developer Relations
Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.
On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive."
Usually nVidia optimized games uses a lot of shaders with dependant texture reads, low polygon count, lots of high resolution textures and lots of very short shaders, while ATi optimized games have a higher polygon count, less high resolution textures and lots of shader math.
Lost Planet, a game which was created on Xbox 360 which should shine on ATi hardware, runs considerably slower on it than on nVidia, the same with Deadspace, while Demigod, GRID and HAWX runs fast on nVidia, but faster on ATi, who's more fair? With ATi heading the DX11 hardware launch and ATi's close relationship with Microsoft for DX11 development, will make sure that it will run great on both vendors the way it mean to be run since ATi wasn't the one to cried to Microsoft to lower it's requirement for DX10 compliance, something that affected ATi when it launched the HD 2900XT Flop Edition.
While it's true that there are some scenarios which the HD 4890 reaches or outperforms the GTX 285 like in GRID, but those are few scenarios. Or trading blows quite often when overclocked against the stock GTX 285 (But GTX 285 can be overclocked too), GTX 285 still the fastest single GPU available.
http://www.hardocp.com/article...wxMCwsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q=
"Developer Relations
Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.
On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive."
Usually nVidia optimized games uses a lot of shaders with dependant texture reads, low polygon count, lots of high resolution textures and lots of very short shaders, while ATi optimized games have a higher polygon count, less high resolution textures and lots of shader math.
Lost Planet, a game which was created on Xbox 360 which should shine on ATi hardware, runs considerably slower on it than on nVidia, the same with Deadspace, while Demigod, GRID and HAWX runs fast on nVidia, but faster on ATi, who's more fair? With ATi heading the DX11 hardware launch and ATi's close relationship with Microsoft for DX11 development, will make sure that it will run great on both vendors the way it mean to be run since ATi wasn't the one to cried to Microsoft to lower it's requirement for DX10 compliance, something that affected ATi when it launched the HD 2900XT Flop Edition.
While it's true that there are some scenarios which the HD 4890 reaches or outperforms the GTX 285 like in GRID, but those are few scenarios. Or trading blows quite often when overclocked against the stock GTX 285 (But GTX 285 can be overclocked too), GTX 285 still the fastest single GPU available.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
You're flipping criteria though. I don't see the launch price/performance as a loss for NVIDIA. They tried to over charge us for their cards at launch, but given the competitive landscape, they had to adjust their pricing.
The way I see it, NV currently remain price competitive with ATI in the performance sector, and they hold the performance crown. Is a "win" determined by who can build the fastest card, or is it determined by bang for the buck?
ATI has done a good job this generation with their cards, but they have done an even better job convincing people that coming in second place in the two horse race is a win.
...sold my Q9450 and 780i. Should be replaced by an i7 build soon.
whatever..... I owned an hd4870 and "upgraded" to a gtx280. I think i can make an educated guess/comparison between the 2. lemme guess you know first hand based on the gpu in your sig:roll:.
The hd4870 does and can beat the 280 in more than a couple games. The GTX 280 is definatley the stronger card the the majority of time but the difference is hardly noticable. hence I said COMPARABLE.
If anyone won this generation it has been the consumer.
Both the 4000 and gt200 series have been great parts in their respective segments.
This is evidenced by the fact that fans of either side can (and have) stated compelling arguments.
The dead heat we've witnessed has driven prices down to the point of near absurdity.
I can't remember a time in which $120 (inflation corrected) has ever had so much buying power.
I hope the next gen is just as close for all of our sake.
Both the 4000 and gt200 series have been great parts in their respective segments.
This is evidenced by the fact that fans of either side can (and have) stated compelling arguments.
The dead heat we've witnessed has driven prices down to the point of near absurdity.
I can't remember a time in which $120 (inflation corrected) has ever had so much buying power.
I hope the next gen is just as close for all of our sake.
9700Pro + Thoroughbred. To answer the ATi+AMD question.
Soo.. the real question is when are these coming out?
Soo.. the real question is when are these coming out?
did you miss the part where atis launch made nvidia "halve" their prices...a sure sign of "things turning out poorly"
Im glad they dropped prices. It still doesnt mean they dont have the top cards.
If nV can pull off the 512 DDR5 with the specs that are rumored.....they will hold the lead.
no it doesnt mean they dont have top cards...it does however mean that they lost a large sum of cash, and that they might be selling them at a loss
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Did you miss the part where ATI got bought by another company? The acquisition was announced on July 24, 2006, how well do you think ATI was doing selling their X1900s? I honestly don't know, nor do I care. The X1900XTX was a sweet card (I had one), and the highest performing single gpu card available at the time - just like the GTX 285 is today.
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