News AMD Announces Radeon VII

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PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,519
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#51
There's value in chipping away at massively overpriced GPUs. Undercutting by $100 while delivering double the memory and memory bandwidth....
Where is the undercutting? You can buy RTX 2080 for $699 today.

I have been saying for a while. Expecting AMD to drastically improve Perf/$ was a pipe dream and here is yet another piece of evidence. They are essentially matching RTX 2080 almost exactly on price and performance, and thus Perf/$ goes nowhere.
 
Jan 5, 2017
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#52
Where is the undercutting? You can buy RTX 2080 for $699 today.

I have been saying for a while. Expecting AMD to drastically improve Perf/$ was a pipe dream and here is yet another piece of evidence. They are essentially matching RTX 2080 almost exactly on price and performance, and thus Perf/$ goes nowhere.
Because Vega20 is still Vega. It's nothing more than a simple shrink.

What matters are Navi and the architectures after. Especially if it's true that Navi will be the last GCN-based GPU/architecture.
 

Hitman928

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2012
1,602
61
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#53
Delivering on time which I think I read mid year. I wouldn't buy it without reading some reviews of the actual product so I'm just trying to figure out if I should hit the pause button till its potential release.



Why do you say that? I don't care about brand anymore so long as the drivers aren't a nightmare, but I'm sure people still buy based on brand even when prices aren't exactly in line.
It's hard to say with the last couple of launches (before the 590) happening while mining was still a thing.

I would expect the cards to be available on Feb 7 but probably with limited availability. I would also expect that within 4-6 weeks of that date, they should be widely available. This is just speculation on my part obviously.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,349
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#54
How has AMD been at delivering GPUs they announce? I haven't bought one of their products in a while and was just considering a 2060 RTX to replace my GTX 1070, but this AMD offering looks interesting with all that RAM.
The last round of Vega never really appeared in big numbers - very low amounts for quite a while. Not sure quite what to expect from this one.

They’ve also been a touch prone to being quite generous with their marketing slides for GPU’s.

If you want a 2060 competitor I’d tend to wait until Navi drops. Or longer - there really isn’t anything out representing a reason to upgrade a 1070 in this generation.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,519
102
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#55
Because Vega20 is still Vega. It's nothing more than a simple shrink.

What matters are Navi and the architectures after. Especially if it's true that Navi will be the last GCN-based GPU/architecture.
Is there some reason, AMD can't lower the price on Vega designs?

There are a lot of people that treat NVidia like the Devil for not moving Perf/$ forward, and when AMD does it they give them a pass.

It is possible that these cards are getting more expensive to build and that both companies are behaving like profit motivated companies, trying to get healthy margins on their products.

IMO both companies deserve equal treatment for the stalled Perf/$.

Either they are both price gouging, or they are both have expensive products to build that they need to make healthy margins on, in a profit motivated business.
 

linkgoron

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2005
1,840
43
106
#56
Where is the undercutting? You can buy RTX 2080 for $699 today.

I have been saying for a while. Expecting AMD to drastically improve Perf/$ was a pipe dream and here is yet another piece of evidence. They are essentially matching RTX 2080 almost exactly on price and performance, and thus Perf/$ goes nowhere.
You've been championing Nvidia's pricing all over the forum, so maybe you should champion the 16GB HBM2 7nm card as well. 16GB HBM2 and a new process!

It's exciting that a 7nm tweaked Vega shrink (it's not even full Vega20) can get ~2080 performance - it makes me hopeful for a more competitive landscape with Navi.

However the pricing isn't really exciting to say the least. Disappointing that AMD are pricing this so high. A 2080 level card at 2080 (non FE) pricing... Not very exciting.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,148
86
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#57
Why do you say that? I don't care about brand anymore so long as the drivers aren't a nightmare, but I'm sure people still buy based on brand even when prices aren't exactly in line.
Past history. Just look at what happened with the RX 480/580 and the GTX 1060, discounting the period of the mining boom.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,519
102
96
#58
You've been championing Nvidia's pricing all over the forum, so maybe you should champion the 16GB HBM2 7nm card as well. 16GB HBM2 and a new process!

It's exciting that an essentially straight 7nm Vega shrink can get ~2080 performance - it makes me hopeful for a more competitive landscape with Navi.

However the pricing isn't really exciting to say the least. Disappointing that AMD are pricing this so high. A 2080 level card at 2080 (non FE) pricing... Not very exciting.
I never championed NVidia pricing. I hate the stalled perf/$.

I just pointed out that cards with dies up to twice as large as their predecessors cost a lot more to build and it's naive to think manufacturers would eat that cost. The counter argument seems to be more along the lines of NVidia prices them high because they are evil price gougers, while totally discounting the increased production costs.

Now that AMD has a new card, with the same perf/$ do we see those same people claiming AMD is price gouging? No we see the excuses.
 
Feb 2, 2009
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#59
$699 for 25% higher performance my ass, I dont spend a flying fart until you and NV lower prices.

Also, all those favor a 175W TDP Fury Nano replacement with a 64 CU + 8GB Vega 7nm click like
 
Dec 31, 2016
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#60
You've been championing Nvidia's pricing all over the forum, so maybe you should champion the 16GB HBM2 7nm card as well. 16GB HBM2 and a new process!

It's exciting that a 7nm tweaked Vega shrink (it's not even full Vega20) can get ~2080 performance - it makes me hopeful for a more competitive landscape with Navi.

However the pricing isn't really exciting to say the least. Disappointing that AMD are pricing this so high. A 2080 level card at 2080 (non FE) pricing... Not very exciting.
Who cares about process when it still seems to suck power just as much as the earlier Vega while being somewhat faster. Just shows how much they need new architecture.
 
Jul 29, 2003
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#61
It's exciting that a 7nm tweaked Vega shrink (it's not even full Vega20) can get ~2080 performance - it makes me hopeful for a more competitive landscape with Navi.
Thats more or less how I feel as well. That being said I'm more in the ogling phase of gpu ownership, hooing and hawing at all the shiney new gpu's but unlikely to upgrade until late 2020. (unless something really disruptive gets released along the way or I cave to the weakness known as temptation)
 

Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,799
42
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#62
Can someone confirm/deny 128rops?That will be HUUUGE.
With 128rops there will be 8x shader engines and also +100% geometry speed vs vega 64 at same clock.4x shader engines was big bottlenek for amd cards since hawaii...

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13832/amd-radeon-vii-high-end-7nm-february-7th-for-699

It's confirmed if it's being reported. They have a blurb in the article about it so it's not just a table mistake. Anandtech reporting failed. https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...-viis-core-configuration-has-been-misreported

I never championed NVidia pricing. I hate the stalled perf/$.

I just pointed out that cards with dies up to twice as large as their predecessors cost a lot more to build and it's naive to think manufacturers would eat that cost. The counter argument seems to be more along the lines of NVidia prices them high because they are evil price gougers, while totally discounting the increased production costs.

Now that AMD has a new card, with the same perf/$ do we see those same people claiming AMD is price gouging? No we see the excuses.
Nvidia sold everyone on last years node marketed as the next coming of GPU Jesus. AMD sells on a new node that everyone accepts is more expensive plus they double the amount of RAM, expensive HBM2 no less which provides double the bandwidth, at the same price as their competitor. AMD would be gouging if they didn't give more for the same price. AMD is still the value proposition that's why they aren't price gouging. Make sense?
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2006
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#63
Thats more or less how I feel as well. That being said I'm more in the ogling phase of gpu ownership, hooing and hawing at all the shiney new gpu's but unlikely to upgrade until late 2020. (unless something really disruptive gets released along the way or I cave to the weakness known as temptation)
To add to this, it also highlights just how disappointing RTX was after the huge wait.

Little raw performance increase unless you buy stratospheric 2080ti.

Gigantic die size, more heat/power, primarily because RTX/Tensor (as yet) are mostly pointless for gamers.

Memory size didn't really move (in fact, good AIB 1080ti 11GB > 2080FE 8GB imho)

Compared to 7xx to 9xx, and 9xx to 10xx, 10xx to RTX was ehhhhh. 970 was in the 780ti performance league. 1070 was in 980ti range. 2070 is absolutely below the 1080ti.

Hopefully by this time next year we'll be in much better shape. We're still sitting in the proximity of the exact price/performance of when 1070/1080 launched like two years ago. WTH.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
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#65
To add to this, it also highlights just how disappointing RTX was after the huge wait.

Little raw performance increase unless you buy stratospheric 2080ti.

Gigantic die size, more heat/power, primarily because RTX/Tensor (as yet) are mostly pointless for gamers.

Memory size didn't really move (in fact, good AIB 1080ti 11GB > 2080FE 8GB imho)

Compared to 7xx to 9xx, and 9xx to 10xx, 10xx to RTX was ehhhhh. 970 was in the 780ti performance league. 1070 was in 980ti range. 2070 is absolutely below the 1080ti.

Hopefully by this time next year we'll be in much better shape. We're still sitting in the proximity of the exact price/performance of when 1070/1080 launched like two years ago. WTH.
This is why you buy when a tremendous produce is released and sit on it for 4-5 years.
I bought Pascal (Set on GPU) until 2020/2021
I bought 1st gen ryzen (2017) .... bump from 4 core to 8 core (set on CPU) until 2020

Never buy the junk in between major overhauls.
I'll consider AMD @ navi and I'll consider Nvidia @ 7nm / pcie 4.0 and when they get their heads out of their buts on pricing. Cool to see progress, but this won't be getting my $$$.
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
2,404
12
106
#66
the 128 ROPs really caught me surprise as I thought GCN had a hard limit of 64/CU and 64 ROPS / 4096 Shaders
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,519
102
96
#67
Nvidia sold everyone on last years node marketed as the next coming of GPU Jesus. AMD sells on a new node that everyone accepts is more expensive plus they double the amount of RAM, expensive HBM2 no less which provides double the bandwidth, at the same price as their competitor. AMD would be gouging if they didn't give more for the same price. AMD is still the value proposition that's why they aren't price gouging. Make sense?
New process at MUCH smaller die size makes it really hard to tell which die cost more. But for ages now AMD fans have been saying what things cost to produce doesn't matter.

Only perf/$ matters to the consumer.

But now AMD delivers the same perf/$, we suddenly we get excuses that production costs matter.

Not hypocritical at all. /s
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#68
Not bad, but I was really hoping they'd really put Nvidia's balls in a vice with a $500 price point if only for the sake of market share.
 

Batmeat

Senior member
Feb 1, 2011
676
6
91
#69
Since nobody else has pointed this out............VII can be translated as '7' via roman numerals, or, V (Vega) II (2.0 = 20)

Nothing important, just thought it was an interesting name.
 
Jul 29, 2003
68
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#70
But for ages now AMD fans have been saying what things cost to produce doesn't matter.

Only perf/$ matters to the consumer.

But now AMD delivers the same perf/$, we suddenly we get excuses that production costs matter.

Not hypocritical at all. /s
Don't know what your expecting. AMD/Nvidia fan(atic)s are both human and subject to the same character flaws. Just wait till Intel fans get thrown into the mix. We'll beable to forge the Triforce of hypocrisy.
 

Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,799
42
136
#71
New process at MUCH smaller die size makes it really hard to tell which die cost more. But for ages now AMD fans have been saying what things cost to produce doesn't matter.

Only perf/$ matters to the consumer.

But now AMD delivers the same perf/$, we suddenly we get excuses that production costs matter.

Not hypocritical at all. /s
This is how you build strawman.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,349
24
106
#72
Not bad, but I was really hoping they'd really put Nvidia's balls in a vice with a $500 price point if only for the sake of market share.
Probably futility with this - they couldn't produce the previous vega at all fast, that massive tdp needs a very good cooler etc etc.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,340
26
126
#73
Not bad, but I was really hoping they'd really put Nvidia's balls in a vice with a $500 price point if only for the sake of market share.
An 8gb version could fill that slot. If at $200 less than a 2080, AMD could have a real winner on their hands.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
97,870
142
126
#74
An 8gb version could fill that slot. If at $200 less than a 2080, AMD could have a real winner on their hands.
an 8GB version would have half the memory bandwidth.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,733
18
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#75
that basically justifies Nvidia's RTX pricing.... also kind of a bummer that they can't bring something to compete with the 2060, a Vega 56+ would've been enough, but I guess there is just not enough margin for them right now in there with what they can get from 7nm and HBM.

there is a big gap between this and the 590... kind of makes the 2060 even more of a win.
 


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