AMD 7970 v Nvidia GTX 770

[SirPauly]

Since WarFrame was mentioned - gamers are actually playing it and has consistently been in the top 15 games played according to Steam for some time! Good to see strong performance from AMD there.

Here is one of my views:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337207892&postcount=1833

WarFrame is a co-op F2play game that also has some nifty PhysX effects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx5RDaGVkZE

The game is so popular and fun -- Sony asked the developers to bring the title to PlayStation!

 

[Elfear]

To blanket price/performance based on cherry picking and temporary deals isn't very objective!

If the deals were fire sales, I could see your point but most were available for at least a week and some for two or more. They weren't the bottom of the barrel cards either (*cough* XFX DD *cough*) because both the Dual-X and Vapor-X have great coolers and unlocked voltage.

In a discussion of value you have to talk about what's currently available. If a good GTX 770 went on sale for awhile, I'd hope its price would get used when a thread is started asking which card to buy. That's the whole definition of being a smart consumer.

 

[MrK6]

To blanket price/performance based on cherry picking and temporary deals isn't very objective!

You need to look up the definition of objective.

 

[SirPauly]

Objective surly doesn't blanket price performance based on temporary pricing on a few select sku's, imho.

 

[MrK6]

Objective surly doesn't blanket price performance based on temporary pricing on a few select sku's, imho.

Again, you need to look up the definition of objective. You can't throw around words and accusations because other people and more importantly, facts, don't agree with your position or preferences. The OP posted this thread because he's buying now, and we're discussing what the market is now.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Right, I've seen many times where someone asks a similar question and the response is "oh, until the 10th this card is on sale and has a $20 rebate making it really cheap" and the OP responds with "wow, I didn't see that...just ordered one".

So temporary pricing can be important to the OP if they are looking to buy something immediately.

 

[SirPauly]

I clearly offered blanket price/performance. Of course, temporary prices or deals are nice, for the shrewd gamer or has nice timing -- but to use these deals to blanket price/performance? Good Grief!

 

[cmdrdredd]

I clearly offered blanket price/performance. Of course, temporary prices or deals are nice, for the shrewd gamer or has nice timing -- but to use these deals to blanket price/performance? Good Grief!

I did not see what you describe. Anyway sales and temporary deals can make a decision easier for someone looking for a purchase right away.

 

[3DVagabond]

I clearly offered blanket price/performance. Of course, temporary prices or deals are nice, for the shrewd gamer or has nice timing -- but to use these deals to blanket price/performance? Good Grief!

The only prices that matter are the prices on the day that you buy. What's not "objective" is paying more for something than you have to because it's gone off sale. That's "impulsive".

 

[SirPauly]

Radeons have stronger price/performance -- oh, what I really mean, is when there is temporary pricing with a few sku's.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Radeons have stronger price/performance -- oh, what I really mean, is when there is temporary pricing with a few sku's.

What is wrong with someone asking what card to get or asking about the better value and someone pointing out that a particular model is on sale or has a good rebate if they are looking to buy soon?

 

[SirPauly]

Nothing!

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337283155&postcount=6

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337283228&postcount=8

 

[MrK6]

Nothing!

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337283155&postcount=6

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337283228&postcount=8

Then why are you making such a fuss over it? Honestly, this thread...

 

[SirPauly]

I guess you missed this:

The GTX 770 is not over-priced compared to the competition as a whole -- only if one cherry picks a cheaper sku and blankets price performance as a whole.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=-1&isNodeId=1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=-1&isNodeId=1

I don't think it's fair to compare the price of one specific Sapphire 7970 GHz edition AFTER rebate to the entire line of GTX 770. All GTX 770's are ~$410, only one 7970 GHz edition is <$400..

 

[3DVagabond]

I guess you missed this:

I agree with you here. I think people overreacted to the Sapphire sale. The immediate reaction was, "the 7970 is now $300!" Period. End of story. In reality it was a marketing promotion to dampen the enthusiasm for the 770 @ $400.

Personally, I think the 7970 is a better card than the 770 and worth as much, maybe, a bit more than the 770. I believe many people though won't see it that way. They'll simply look at FPS graphs (funny how when nVidia looks better in fps graphs most of the people who said they are worthless don't seem to mind them anymore ) of the stock cards and see the 770 a couple of percent ahead (Of course the games it's behind in don't matter. It's AMD pixie dust causing that.) and proclaim it a better value.

More vram for the 7970? = Doesn't matter. You don't need it.

Faster overall compute performance? = Doesn't matter. It's nothing you will ever use and it's only used in games by AMD to make nVidia look bad. You don't need to worry about that.

AMD's better dev relations lately? = Don't pay any attention to that. They are just unfair cheating Bast****. Don't fall for their tricks. Besides, they don't support CUDA or PhysX.

What matters is that it uses moar power and has been available for over a year now. Speaking of over a year now, remember when it was $550? What a ripoff AMD is, eh! What? Titan? You want the best it's going to cost you. You're only whining because you're poor and beneath those who can afford to own truly the best, cost be damned.

...and the wheel goes round and round.

 

[SolMiester]

Wow, its funny how people twist sh*t to suit their purposes....

 

[3DVagabond]

Don't know what purposes you are referring to? I'm only stating why I think the 7970 is a better card and the reasons people come up with to play down those advantages.

In the end though, I agree that the 7970 is not as cheap as many thought because of the Sapphire promotion. They are easily available for less than a 770 though and I believe a better card.

 

[SolMiester]

Don't know what purposes you are referring to? I'm only stating why I think the 7970 is a better card and the reasons people come up with to play down those advantages.

In the end though, I agree that the 7970 is not as cheap as many thought because of the Sapphire promotion. They are easily available for less than a 770 though and I believe a better card.

LOL, any reason you thought that was directed at you?...is my post not in agreement?

 

[cmdrdredd]

One could argue both sides quite easily. FPS, multi GPu, vram, cuda usages, opencl performance etc. All could come into the argument for or against either card.

I sometimes think people could do themselves a service to go down the list of items to compare like price, performance, possible multigpu performance, memory limitations if any at a given resolution, possible usage for cuda, possible usage for enhanced compute performance, power consumption, possibility of extra overclocking headroom. List them all out and then examine the games and engines to be used most. I bet most people could come to a pretty reasonable decision themselves.

 

[Carfax83]

More vram for the 7970? = Doesn't matter. You don't need it.

But it's true, you don't need it. No game right now needs 3GB of VRAM, or even 2GB of VRAM. Games today are still designed to require about 1GB of VRAM for rendering purposes. Anything extra is used for preloading assets, or for higher levels of AA and resolution.

I managed to play Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, Far Cry 3, Metro Last Light etcetera all with 1.5GB of VRAM on my GTX 580 SLI at the highest visual fidelity (except AA of course) at 2560x1440 and have very playable frame rates.

Now having switched over to GTX 770 4GB SLI, minus the obvious increase in processing capability, I find that games load much faster now, and area transitions are much smoother due to the increase in VRAM. I can also ratchet up the AA a lot higher if I want to.

Faster overall compute performance? = Doesn't matter. It's nothing you will ever use and it's only used in games by AMD to make nVidia look bad. You don't need to worry about that.

This does matter, but it's not especially salient because very few games use that feature and NVidia aren't exactly weak in compute either.

AMD's better dev relations lately? = Don't pay any attention to that. They are just unfair cheating Bast****. Don't fall for their tricks. Besides, they don't support CUDA or PhysX.

How does AMD have better developer relations? While it's true that AMD have been very aggressive lately in adding titles to their GE program, NVidia haven't been sitting on their laurels. Assassin's Creed IV, Splinter Cell Black List, Watch Dogs, Batman Arkham Origins, Witcher 3 are all AAA titles and TWIMTBP games.

What matters is that it uses moar power and has been available for over a year now. Speaking of over a year now, remember when it was $550? What a ripoff AMD is, eh! What? Titan? You want the best it's going to cost you. You're only whining because you're poor and beneath those who can afford to own truly the best, cost be damned.

Well I can tell you one thing, until AMD fix their Crossfire, they aren't even an option for me.

 

[RussianSensation]

I clearly offered blanket price/performance. Of course, temporary prices or deals are nice, for the shrewd gamer or has nice timing -- but to use these deals to blanket price/performance? Good Grief!

One caveat, when GTX680/690 launched, almost no game used more than 2GB of VRAM. Now we have COH2, BF4 beta. If we look at triple monitor gaming in even light games like Bioshock Infinite, 680 SLI, 690 and GTX770 SLI are all completely unplayable as they run out of VRAM. What's going to happen when next gen games arrive?

Therefore, anyone paying $400 for a 2GB GTX770 is seriously playing with fire. We can't say with certainty if 2013 games like Watch Dogs, etc. will need more than 2GB of VRAM but who is going to pay $400 of their $ to keep a GPU for only 6-7 months? Are these gamers willing to bet that by mid-2014 there won't be more games that use > 2GB of VRAM? What about end of 2014? Guess what that 2GB card will start taking an FPS dump or you are forced to lower AA/visuals.

Now look at regular pricing of a 1Ghz 7970 and it can be found easily for $360-370.

In comparison, a safe bet 770 4GB is $450 and what you get for that is just 6-7% more performance and less when comparing both cards overclocked. Right now the 770 at $400 only looks good because next gen games didn't arrive. Just take a look at what happened with GTX580 1.5GB. It's practically worthless vs. its 3GB counterpart and its resale value reflects it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That's why people need to evaluate their needs. If someone is running multi monitor setups they need to factor that in. Someone running a single monitor might not notice the extra memory outside of extreme AA usage in some titles.

 

[3DVagabond]

Well I can tell you one thing, until AMD fix their Crossfire, they aren't even an option for me.

Is that all they have to do?

 

[Carfax83]

One caveat, when GTX680/690 launched, almost no game used more than 2GB of VRAM. Now we have COH2, BF4 beta. If we look at triple monitor gaming in even light games like Bioshock Infinite, 680 SLI, 690 and GTX770 SLI are all completely unplayable as they run out of VRAM.

If you're going to buy a triple monitor setup today, then you should know that you're going to need more than 2GB of VRAM.

In comparison, a safe bet 770 4GB is $450. Right now the 770 at $400 only looks good because next gen games didn't arrive.

And just the other day you were telling me I made a horrible mistake by buying the GTX 770 4GB cards :biggrin:

BTW, the Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB cards are so popular, the price has increased by 10 bucks over at Newegg.

Just take a look at what happened with GTX580 1.5GB. It's practically worthless vs. its 3GB counterpart and its resale value reflects it.

And just the other day you were telling me how I got such a great sale for my GTX 580s. Also, the resale value on eBay for used models is pretty high, considering they only have 1.5GB of VRAM.

Suffice to say, there's a sucker born every minute :whiste:

 

[Carfax83]

Is that all they have to do?

Basically. I was actually very interested in buying a couple of 7970 GHZ cards last year. I even made a thread about it. That was right at the time when AMD started making big strides in improving their drivers, and had overtaken the GTX 680.

What stopped me though was the lack of Crossfire support. If you play above 1200p, multi GPU is almost a necessity if you want all the eye candy enabled.

So AMD has lost a lot of sales and high end discrete market share to NVidia by having a broken Crossfire implementation.