AMD 785 Chipset: What is AMD Thinking???

[chucky2]

I've read the below news posting at OCWorkbench that AMD is going to release an AMD 785 chipset before releasing the AMD 800 series (rumored to be Q4 '09 right now, hence far after the back to school season):

AMD 785 chipset will appear before AMD 880

Other than the updates mentioned (which seem minor to me given the graphics power of the onboard graphics), I can't help but wonder just WTF AMD is doing wasting time and resources on this, when they could be getting their 800 series chipsets out faster to us?

Between 780 and 790 out right now, which already support AM3 and DDR3, what is truly the point of the 785???

Chuck

 

[Rifter]

looks like a total waste of time i agree.

 

[mindless1]

Hmm, when you put it that way why is AMD wasting time on a 880 chipset when they could give us a 999?

My point is, incrementally improving products in all segments is a good thing, if they felt it would substantially lengthen the time to market for better tech then I doubt they'd put the one engineer in the whole company on the project.

 

[Sylvanas]

Really, it doesn't matter. AMD would not bring out something else if it will delay next gen- nowhere in the article does it say this release will delay the 800 series so what does it matter? AMD incrementally improving their products = good, and the liklihood is this will be a low volume part like the 770 was except with a few improvements.

 

[heyheybooboo]

There are no 780g motherboards with sb750 (AFAIK) - so this fills a hole and may make a lost-cost high-flyer for folks who have no interest in multiple discreet video cards,

 

[ElBurro]

I don't see what the problem is. It most likely costs nearly nothing to update up to the 785 and will probably cause a bump in sales. They can still fully develop the 800 series.

 

[VirtualLarry]

"The improvements is that it now supports DX10.1 and UVD2 (for lower cpu utilisation when decoding HD movies). "

Wait a sec, I thought that the 780G supported UVD2 already. No?

Will they fix the HDMI sound, so that it can pass 8-channel sound? That was the biggest limitation on a HTPC with a 780G. If they didn't fix that, then they are just stupid.

 

[chucky2]

@mindless1: Well, 999 is years out...800 series is within 2009. My point sorta was why dedicate any resources to the 700 series - budget, line capacity, requirements folks, engineers, programmers, QC, project management, etc. - when you could use them to deliver the 800 series theoretically sooner?

@Sylvanas: Yes, as long as it doesn't delay the 800 series...and you're right, the article doesn't say that. Still, for the features it's rumored to have, very very odd....

@heyheybooboo: The only 780G I could find on NewEgg that had a 710 (or 750) SB was the ASRock A780GMH/128M. There are tons of 790G boards that have 750 SB's though. The price on the 790G boards is so low, I'm not sure exactly what the mobo manufacturers are going to do with having to do a new board with a 785G and 710/750 combo...despite how drop in these chipsets probably are.

@VirtualLarry: 790G does DirectX 10.0 and SM 4.0, along with having UVD 2. 780G is the same as 790G in this regard.

Given the already low cost of 790G (most which already have 750 SB), given what's known about the 785G at this time.....I really don't get it.

Are they doing this for a Windows 7 type launch support thing????

Chuck

 

[legocitytruck]

Is there an official date set for the 800 series? Are they sources of 800 series specifics as it relates to the current 700 series?

 

[beat mania]

Originally posted by: chucky2
@mindless1: Well, 999 is years out...800 series is within 2009. My point sorta was why dedicate any resources to the 700 series - budget, line capacity, requirements folks, engineers, programmers, QC, project management, etc. - when you could use them to deliver the 800 series theoretically sooner?

You can only have so many people working on a project before diminishing return hits.

 

[chucky2]

@legocitytruck: There's rumors of course, but nothing much else is known other than from AMD's dated roadmaps (and who knows how official some of those were/are).

@beat mania: Oh believe, I know...that's pretty much my job daily. Typically though, you can always use more Requirements, Dev.'s, and/or QC folks, unless you really do have all the human bandwidth you need.

Chuck

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
There are no 780g motherboards with sb750 (AFAIK) - so this fills a hole and may make a lost-cost high-flyer for folks who have no interest in multiple discreet video cards,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813157154

asrock... has one with sb710. I think the difference between sb750 and 710 is that 750 has raid or something, not sure. but 710 has acc.


most 760g boards have sb710 also.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
"The improvements is that it now supports DX10.1 and UVD2 (for lower cpu utilisation when decoding HD movies). "

Wait a sec, I thought that the 780G supported UVD2 already. No?

Will they fix the HDMI sound, so that it can pass 8-channel sound? That was the biggest limitation on a HTPC with a 780G. If they didn't fix that, then they are just stupid.

from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder

The UVD saw a refresh with the release of the Radeon HD 4000 series products. The UVD 2 features full bitstream decoding of H.264/MPEG-4 AVC and VC-1 video streams, and in addition it also supports dual video stream decoding and Picture-in-Picture mode. This makes UVD2 full BD-Live compliant.



Looks like its not a hugedifference. the 780g basically has a 3450 gpu onboard, so I guess the 785g would have the HD decode portions of say a 4350 gpu , with the number of shaders of a 3450 (as the 4350 has 80 shaders and is a bigger die)

 

[chucky2]

That's the thing though...I think 780G already has UVD 2. If that's true, then I'm still confused on what 785G is really bringing to the table.

This is something AnandTech could really put to rest for us.............

Chuck

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: chucky2
That's the thing though...I think 780G already has UVD 2. If that's true, then I'm still confused on what 785G is really bringing to the table.

This is something AnandTech could really put to rest for us.............

Chuck

well no the 780g doesnt have uvd2, it has uvd1. i think you need uvd2 to decode more than 1 stream at once.

That wiki article i posted is wrong on the chart. I just posted it because of the description of the difference between uvd1 and uvd2.

Oddly the wiki article hasnt been corrected, but the link that they cite for the chart atthe bottom even disagrees with the wiki

 

[IntelUser2000]

Companies always do this. I don't know why you need so much segmenting for IGP chipsets. It's not like you are looking at whether to go for low end/mid-range/high end IGPs when choosing a board anyway. In terms of just the IGPs, either you go high end or you don't. The price difference is what, most at $5?

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
Companies always do this. I don't know why you need so much segmenting for IGP chipsets. It's not like you are looking at whether to go for low end/mid-range/high end IGPs when choosing a board anyway. In terms of just the IGPs, either you go high end or you don't. The price difference is what, most at $5?

i dont think the 785g is segmenting , since uvd2 is of a newer generation than uvd1 on the 780g.


i think a clear case of segmenting is the 780g/780v/760g which are all the same chip and disabled.

uvd2 isnt on the 780g, its not disabled, the 785g is a new chip.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: chucky2
That's the thing though...I think 780G already has UVD 2. If that's true, then I'm still confused on what 785G is really bringing to the table.

This is something AnandTech could really put to rest for us.............

Chuck

well no the 780g doesnt have uvd2, it has uvd1. i think you need uvd2 to decode more than 1 stream at once.

That wiki article i posted is wrong on the chart. I just posted it because of the description of the difference between uvd1 and uvd2.

Oddly the wiki article hasnt been corrected, but the link that they cite for the chart atthe bottom even disagrees with the wiki

I can't find anything on AMD's site about differing UVD support for their chipsets, however AnandTech's articles on both 790GX and 780G indicate both have UVD 2.0. From AnandTech's "review" on 790GX:

"As with the 780G, the 790GX AMD features Unified Video Decoder 2.0 (UVD 2.0) capabilities that include hardware acceleration for decoding VC-1, H.264 (AVC), WMV, and MPEG-2 sources up to 1080p resolutions." (6th paragraph)

Regardless of 785G, all I know is if AMD hasn't fixed the 8 channel LCPM over HDMI deficiency in their chipset, someone over there should be flogged with an HDMI cable until they bleed 1's and 0's....

Chuck

 

[Nil Einne]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: chucky2
That's the thing though...I think 780G already has UVD 2. If that's true, then I'm still confused on what 785G is really bringing to the table.

This is something AnandTech could really put to rest for us.............

Chuck

well no the 780g doesnt have uvd2, it has uvd1. i think you need uvd2 to decode more than 1 stream at once.

That wiki article i posted is wrong on the chart. I just posted it because of the description of the difference between uvd1 and uvd2.

Oddly the wiki article hasnt been corrected, but the link that they cite for the chart atthe bottom even disagrees with the wiki

I can't find anything on AMD's site about differing UVD support for their chipsets, however AnandTech's articles on both 790GX and 780G indicate both have UVD 2.0. From AnandTech's "review" on 790GX:

"As with the 780G, the 790GX AMD features Unified Video Decoder 2.0 (UVD 2.0) capabilities that include hardware acceleration for decoding VC-1, H.264 (AVC), WMV, and MPEG-2 sources up to 1080p resolutions." (6th paragraph)

Regardless of 785G, all I know is if AMD hasn't fixed the 8 channel LCPM over HDMI deficiency in their chipset, someone over there should be flogged with an HDMI cable until they bleed 1's and 0's....

Chuck

Most recent discussions I've read suggest the 785G should have 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. This makes sense given that the 785 is graphics portion is apparently based on the 4xxx series and the 4xxx cards all support 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. The 780G and 790G were 3xxx series parts.