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AMD 6000 reviews thread

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tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
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If it's an old enough title it won't matter.
This is a terrible assumption. Just because a title is old doesn't mean that it runs better than current titles. Go look at Kingdom Come Deliverance or Watch Dogs 2, as examples of DX11 titles. I can give examples of even DX9 titles which bring modern GPUs to their knees but that'll be a digression.
You eventually reach a point where it runs it faster than the monitor can display the frames.
And that is relevant how? Why would I care about future hardware being able to break through my monitor refresh rate if current hardware underperforms?
Also, the people who don't play any of those older games at all won't lose sleep over it, just like they don't over the poor fuel economy of a car they don't own.
How do you know that those who play older games are insignificant enough to not matter?
Maybe you should contact their marketing department. I'm sure consumers would feel better if there were an "Amazing drivers for 10 year old games!" sticker on the box.

Or better yet, go tell the board at AMD that Lisa Su is doing a terrible job because there isn't better driver support for older games. I'm sure they'd love to hear about how much better AMD could be doing if only gamers who likely don't own AMD cards (I mean, if you cared about the game back in the day at all you probably grabbed an Nvidia card due to the better performance since AMD would have had these same driver problems with the game back then) could get better performance in these older games. I'm sure no one on the driver team has anything better they could be doing with their time and good shout from management will get the lazy gits sorted out.
Wow you must love AMD GPUs so much that you're willing to gloss over its flaws. There is a word for that behaviour, too bad it isn't allowed to be mentioned in these forums.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
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Almost everyone is moving to DX12/Vulkan and the vast majority of those that aren't are games that run fine on a potato.
I'll need more than your word to believe that the majority of non-DX12, non-Vulkan games run fine on a potato.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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Well considering the last gen Xbox API was DX11 and for nextgen it's DX12 only, I think it's pretty evident that future games on DX11 will finally start to phase out. You can't make a Xbox Series title with DX11
 
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tamz_msc

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Depends on your definition of fine but a lot of games are multiplat so work on Xbox One which is definitely a potato.
Yes, Xbox One runs most games at 720p upscaled and fails to maintain 30FPS in many of them. That's YOUR definition of fine?
 
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tamz_msc

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Well considering the last gen Xbox API was DX11 and for nextgen it's DX12 only, I think it's pretty evident that future games on DX11 will finally start to phase out. You can't make a Xbox Series title with DX11
I'm not talking about future games, I'm talking about current games.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Yes, Xbox One runs most games at 720p upscaled and fails to maintain 30FPS in many of them. That's YOUR definition of fine?
Here's a list of recently released PC games. Go ahead and look through to see what percentage of them require any kind of high end hardware but don't support DX12/Vulkan.


Edit: One obvious one that sticks out right away is Assasin's Creed Valhalla, but low and behold, it runs just fine on AMD hardware (better than NV currently) because the developers actually know how to program DX11 with multi-threading without dealing with DCL. Just saw that this game does support DX12.
 
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tamz_msc

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You spend way too much time trash talking a product you clearly have no interest in purchasing.

You thirst for confrontation? Redacted
I can speak whatever I want. You seem to have your redacted in a twist for no apparent reason, but you're fine in justifying an inferior product in particular aspects with piss-poor arguments.

Personal insults and trolling is not allowed here.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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This is a terrible assumption. Just because a title is old doesn't mean that it runs better than current titles. Go look at Kingdom Come Deliverance or Watch Dogs 2, as examples of DX11 titles.
So what? There are always modern titles that run better on one architecture or another due to sponsorship or optimizations being done for those games. Normally we tell people who really care about performance in one specific title to go with the company that gets the best performance in that particular title even if it's not the best choice overall.

I can give examples of even DX9 titles which bring modern GPUs to their knees but that'll be a digression.
So what? There aren't very many of those games being made so it's not worth optimizing for and it isn't as though Black Mesa looks particularly good (outside of comparing it to the older games in the franchise) so bumping up the resolution doesn't add a lot.

How do you know that those who play older games are insignificant enough to not matter?
How do you know they are? You're the person asserting that it's important, so the burden to prove it is rests on your shoulders. If I were to make the claim that unicorns are real, I don't get to demand that you have to prove they actually aren't when you say you don't believe me.

Wow you must love AMD GPUs so much that you're willing to gloss over its flaws.
No, I have no problem admitting their cards don't perform as well in older titles, which is obvious from benchmarks. I just don't think it's worth AMD's limited time to address that problem for all the reasons I previously stated. There are plenty of other reasons to prefer an Nvidia GPU such as RT performance, but if you don't think that's important either then it doesn't matter or shouldn't factor in to purchasing decisions.

There is a word for that behaviour, too bad it isn't allowed to be mentioned in these forums.
You can't say "sane" on these forums anymore?
 

leoneazzurro

Senior member
Jul 26, 2016
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I can speak whatever I want. You seem to have your panties in a twist for no apparent reason, but you're fine in justifying an inferior product in particular aspects with piss-poor arguments.
Quite frankly this is a public forum and you cannot simply "speak as you want" but as the regulations of this forum say, you need to keep a respectful behavior. Thing that you haven't in the previous posts. Moreover, we can find similar issues to what you describe in past and present Nvidia products as well.
 
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tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
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Here's a list of recently released PC games. Go ahead and look through to see what percentage of them require any kind of high end hardware but don't support DX12/Vulkan.
And among those that do need higher-end hardware and are quite popular but still use DX11 a Vega 64 is barely faster than a 980Ti. Case in point, Yakuza: Like a Dragon, Ghostrunner and Mafia Definitive Edition.

So my point still stands - that AMD does nothing to optimize DX11 performance barring a select few big-name titles.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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And among those that do need higher-end hardware and are quite popular but still use DX11 a Vega 64 is barely faster than a 980Ti. Case in point, Yakuza: Like a Dragon, Ghostrunner and Mafia Definitive Edition.

So my point still stands - that AMD does nothing to optimize DX11 performance barring a select few big-name titles.

Ghostrunner is a DX12 game, so I don't know why you mentioned it.

The Vega64 underperforms even at 4K in Yakuza, so it's not a DX11 cpu issue like you are claiming is the issue, it's just not performing well at all on that Vega card. Also, here's a 5700XT running it at 4K with 2x SSAA at around 60 fps with a Ryzen 2600, so either there is something wrong with that system you linked to, the Vega64 is bugged in this game, or whatever issue they had has been fixed.


Mafia Definitive Edition looks also to be performing much higher according to the youtube videos I can find:


So I don't know what to tell you. Out of a giant list of games, you picked 3 where 1 is actually a DX12 game and the other two seem to not be limited by your supposed DX11 CPU issue. Perhaps it's just time to move on?
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,286
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I can speak whatever I want. You seem to have your panties in a twist for no apparent reason, but you're fine in justifying an inferior product in particular aspects with piss-poor arguments.
You don't seem to understand people will buy what they want regardless of what you post. Been reading all these post for the last two days and you just seem to keep going on like a broken record.

No one appointed you some kinda savior to bring the slaves to the promise land get over yourself already.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,837
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So what? There are always modern titles that run better on one architecture or another due to sponsorship or optimizations being done for those games. Normally we tell people who really care about performance in one specific title to go with the company that gets the best performance in that particular title even if it's not the best choice overall.
Why are you moving goal-posts? We were talking about the validity of the (your) assumption that old titles always run better than new titles. Why are you now talking about modern titles?
So what? There aren't very many of those games being made so it's not worth optimizing for and it isn't as though Black Mesa looks particularly good (outside of comparing it to the older games in the franchise) so bumping up the resolution doesn't add a lot.
It's about expectations. If we run with your claim that old titles always run better on new hardware through sheer brute-force, regardless of optimization, then upon finding out that a new RX 6800XT is even slower than a last gen RTX 2080 Super, we end up with a situation that runs contrary to your claim. For you that's fine, but for me and many others it is not.
How do you know they are? You're the person asserting that it's important, so the burden to prove it is rests on your shoulders. If I were to make the claim that unicorns are real, I don't get to demand that you have to prove they actually aren't when you say you don't believe me.
People have backlogs of games, they wait till they have the requisite hardware to play games at the fidelity levels they want, by which time a new game becomes "old". It happens all the time among my friends' circle who play games. I'd take my experience over your improbable claims any day of the week.
No, I have no problem admitting their cards don't perform as well in older titles, which is obvious from benchmarks. I just don't think it's worth AMD's limited time to address that problem for all the reasons I previously stated. There are plenty of other reasons to prefer an Nvidia GPU such as RT performance, but if you don't think that's important either then it doesn't matter or shouldn't factor in to purchasing decisions.
Another justification for what AMD can/will/won't do. You could just accept that it is a flaw instead of rationalizing it.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
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Ghostrunner is a DX12 game, so I don't know why you mentioned it.
It has both. DX12 is required for RT.
The Vega64 underperforms even at 4K in Yakuza, so it's not a DX11 cpu issue like you are claiming is the issue, it's just not performing well at all on that Vega card. Also, here's a 5700XT running it at 4K with 2x SSAA at around 60 fps with a Ryzen 2600, so either there is something wrong with that system you linked to, the Vega64 is bugged in this game, or whatever issue they had has been fixed.
Yakuza Kiwami is not the same game as Yakuza Like a Dragon. Kiwami is a port of a PS3 title, Like a Dragon is a PS4/XBOX One-gen title.
Mafia Definitive Edition looks also to be performing much higher according to the youtube videos I can find:
Yeah and how does a RX 5700 XT perform compared to say the RTX 2070 Super - the card that it competes with?
So I don't know what to tell you. Out of a giant list of games, you picked 3 where 1 is actually a DX12 game and the other two seem to not be limited by your supposed DX11 CPU issue. Perhaps it's just time to move on?
You're the one who wanted "recent DX11 titles which require higher end hardware". I provided you with examples of those, in which AMD performs sub-optimally. Perhaps it's just time to accept the facts, and like you say, move on?
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,433
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Another justification for what AMD can/will/won't do. You could just accept that it is a flaw instead of rationalizing it.
AMD will not go back and spend resources trying to optimize for old games that were badly coded to begin with. It's not worth it. If this is important to you, buy an Nvidia card and move on and stop filling the thread with the same stuff over and over.
 
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tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
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AMD will not go back and spend resources trying to optimize for old games that were badly coded to begin with. It's not worth it. If this is important to you, buy an Nvidia card and move on and stop filling the thread with the same stuff over and over.
Why are you filling the thread with justifications for AMD's lack of optimizations for older games? If it's not important to you then say so and move on.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,405
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AMD will not go back and spend resources trying to optimize for old games that were badly coded to begin with. It's not worth it. If this is important to you, buy an Nvidia card and move on and stop filling the thread with the same stuff over and over.
You just need to ignore him. He's just wanting to argue with members that are actually interested in AMD's offerings. He probably bought a RTX 3080 from a scalper and has buyers remorse. Now he's running around badmouthing AMD's offerings for self justification.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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It has both. DX12 is required for RT.
So why bring it up when there is DX12 support for AMD cards? The whole point was DX11 only games.

Yakuza Kiwami is not the same game as Yakuza Like a Dragon. Kiwami is a port of a PS3 title, Like a Dragon is a PS4/XBOX One-gen title.
Sorry, not familiar with these games. Here's a comparison of a 580 and 1650 super, both at 1080p high and both seem to perform roughly equal in crowded areas, so... no issues for AMD here?


Yeah and how does a RX 5700 XT perform compared to say the RTX 2070 Super - the card that it competes with?
It's hard to compare but I think I found two videos where they have the same scene where the FPS seems to drop close to their session low values and both are pretty similar in that spot:

5700XT
1606845108110.png

2070S
1606845148014.png
You're the one who wanted "recent DX11 titles which require higher end hardware". I provided you with examples of those, in which AMD performs sub-optimally. Perhaps it's just time to accept the facts, and like you say, move on?
I said that there are very few new games that are DX11 only that require high end hardware. Out of a list of over 100 recently released games (and there are many more out there), you picked 2, neither of which seem to be performance limited on AMD hardware. You have a conclusion already formed and are trying to find evidence to support it, that's not how it's supposed to work.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
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There have been too many recent reports in this thread. The moderation team is now actively watching it, so any future posts had better follow the posting guidelines.

AT Mod Usandthem
 

DaaQ

Senior member
Dec 8, 2018
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And among those that do need higher-end hardware and are quite popular but still use DX11 a Vega 64 is barely faster than a 980Ti. Case in point, Yakuza: Like a Dragon, Ghostrunner and Mafia Definitive Edition.

So my point still stands - that AMD does nothing to optimize DX11 performance barring a select few big-name titles.
You are aware that Nvidia removed their hardware scheduler and opted for a software one, which ironically, increases cpu overhead for nvidia cards. Where AMD kept a hardware scheduler in their GCN uarch, which gave the false impression that AMD cards suffered from excessive CPU overhead. RIGHT?

Edit: I probably never posted it here on Anandtech, but it is on OCN in my post history. Same screen name so shouldn't be hard to find.

Edit edit: I found the video.

Worth a watch.

 
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