AMD 0.13M Vs 90nm

[narcotic]

Other than obviously one is 0.13M and the other is 90nm, what are the actuall (preformance, physical, temps) differences between the two? My intuition tells me that the 90nm should at least run cooler, and probably be a better OC'er and in general better, that intuition is contradicted upon checking prices at newegg, where some OEM 0.13M cpu's are MORE expenssive than their equiv. (same socket 939) 90nm RETAIL (namely the 3200+ and the 3500+). So, I'm sort of confused, as to which one should I get, and besides I'm puzzeled as for how the hell (anyway) an OEM chip is more expenssive than the RETAIL one..
???!!!

oh, and offcourse do you have any links to benchmarks?

 

[Nyati13]

In the world of retail price does not reflect quality, it reflects availability+production cost vs. demand.

The production cost (per individual CPU) of 90nm is noticably lower than for 130nm, and availability has recently opened up a lot for 90nm parts, so the price will float down to it's "normal" level.
The cost of a 130nm is higher, and as time goes on the availability of these parts will worsen as AMD switches all production to 90nm, and that will float the price up, even though the part itself isn't actually worth any more.

 

[narcotic]

Nyati13, thnks for that. but what I don't understand is, why would there still be demand for the 0.13M, if the 90nm is cheaper, and is of the same socket, so wherever the 0.13M would fit, so would the 90nm... Why on earth would anyone say to him/her-self "hell yeah, I want to get the old, and more expenssive chip...!"

 

[Nyati13]

Honestly, a lot of people don't know any better, they just buy whatever. Add to that, a lot of online retailers don't do a very good job of price list maintanence.

 

[CaiNaM]

the .90nm is cheaper to produce, and has a bit lower thermal output and uses a bit less power. architecture is largely unchanged, other than the smaller process. the real improvements will show up in the E0 core stepping due next year. likely imporvements are SSE3 support, 4 write combining buffers instead of 2, and further improvement of power consumption.

actual benchmarks show the .90nm part is sometimes slightly slower and sometimes slightly faster than their .130nm counterpart (3200+ is a bit of an exception here).

as far as overclocking, there really is not that much difference; top end of both are about 2.6ghz, although the .90nm's clockspeeds will ramp up as the process is refined further.

edit: some recent benchmarks comparing .90 vs .130 can be found here: Text

 

[BW86]

Originally posted by: narcotic
Nyati13, thnks for that. but what I don't understand is, why would there still be demand for the 0.13M, if the 90nm is cheaper, and is of the same socket, so wherever the 0.13M would fit, so would the 90nm... Why on earth would anyone say to him/her-self "hell yeah, I want to get the old, and more expenssive chip...!"

90nm and the 130nm dont use the same socket.

130nm uses s754 while the 90nm uses s939.

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: BW86

90nm and the 130nm dont use the same socket.

130nm uses s754 while the 90nm uses s939.

All of the 90nm so far have been for s939, but that might change when they move the Sempron to 90nm. There are quite a few s939 130nm offerings still out there, but these will stop being manufactured in the near future.

Jeremy

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: BW86
130nm uses s754 while the 90nm uses s939.

Funny, Newegg has 130nm 939 Newcastles, 90nm 939 winchesters and 130nm 939 clawhammers.

 

[IamIkari]

Originally posted by: BW86

90nm and the 130nm dont use the same socket.

130nm uses s754 while the 90nm uses s939.

You're only half-way right here. s754 boards use the 130nm process chips. the s939 uses both 130nm and 90nm process chips.

*EDIT*

Looks like a bunch of people replied at nearly the same time. Oops

 

[BW86]

he knows what i meant

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: narcotic
Nyati13, thnks for that. but what I don't understand is, why would there still be demand for the 0.13M, if the 90nm is cheaper, and is of the same socket, so wherever the 0.13M would fit, so would the 90nm... Why on earth would anyone say to him/her-self "hell yeah, I want to get the old, and more expenssive chip...!"

There isn't more demand for the 130nm parts, but there is excess supply that AMD would like to sell off. Also, I believe AMD is still producing 130nm parts at a couple of fabs because plants cannot produce chips (efficiently) on multiple manufacturing processes, so only the newer fabs make 90nm chips.

Anyways, the 90nm parts cost more because demand for them is higher, not the other way around. People know that the 90nm parts operate cooler/overclock better, so they are willing to pay a (slight) premium for those chips. Also non overclockers/average joes won't know or care about the difference so they will just buy the cheaper part (the 130nm chips).


The 90nm parts will come down in price over time, as AMD converts completely to 90nm and as yields increase.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
People know that the 90nm parts operate cooler/overclock better, so they are willing to pay a (slight) premium for those chips.

but the 90nm parts don't overclock better.... at least not yet

i do think the mb will provide a bit more of an upgrade path later tho...

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: narcotic
Nyati13, thnks for that. but what I don't understand is, why would there still be demand for the 0.13M, if the 90nm is cheaper, and is of the same socket, so wherever the 0.13M would fit, so would the 90nm... Why on earth would anyone say to him/her-self "hell yeah, I want to get the old, and more expenssive chip...!"

There isn't more demand for the 130nm parts, but there is excess supply that AMD would like to sell off. Also, I believe AMD is still producing 130nm parts at a couple of fabs because plants cannot produce chips (efficiently) on multiple manufacturing processes, so only the newer fabs make 90nm chips.

Anyways, the 90nm parts cost more because demand for them is higher, not the other way around. People know that the 90nm parts operate cooler/overclock better, so they are willing to pay a (slight) premium for those chips. Also non overclockers/average joes won't know or care about the difference so they will just buy the cheaper part (the 130nm chips).


The 90nm parts will come down in price over time, as AMD converts completely to 90nm and as yields increase.

Right...But I believe those 130nm parts will be more and more shifted over to the sempron line and then eventually the sempron line will go 90nm process and be called palermo. I think the A64 and FX lines have fully shifted to socket 939 winchesters and sledgehammers....

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
People know that the 90nm parts operate cooler/overclock better, so they are willing to pay a (slight) premium for those chips.

but the 90nm parts don't overclock better.... at least not yet

i do think the mb will provide a bit more of an upgrade path later tho...

Good point. I think the next stepping may create that distance. It is just amazing they completed the 90nm process witout all of the headaches Intel has....

I am holding on to the sckt 939 mobo hopefully for 2 to 3 cpus which should cover 1 more stepping at least...