AMCI tests 2016 RAV4 Hybrid AWD capabilities

[Eug]

This seems to be a Toyota PR video, and I'm wondering if they were all tested with the stock tires all different between the tested vehicles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsV-jfouxI

Did they even use winter tires? No idea. It doesn't say in the video. Anyone recognize the tread patterns?

2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid XLE
2016 Subaru Forester 2.5i Premium
2016 Chevy Equinox AWD LT
2016 Jeep Cherokee Latitude 4x4
2016 Honda C-RV AWD EX

Stopping on ice 30-0 MPH:
Toyota RAV4: 240 feet
Subaru Forester: 269 feet
Chevy Equinox: 278 feet
Jeep Cherokee: 300 feet
Honda CR-V: 314 feet

Acceleration on split snow and ice 0-100 feet:
Toyota RAV4: 4.8 s
Jeep Cherokee: 5.1 s
Honda CR-V: 5.3 s
Subaru Forester: 5.3 s
??? Where is the Chevy? Did it do better?

Cornering on snow:
Toyota RAV4: 0.40 G
Chevy Equinox: 0.37 G
Jeep Cherokee: 0.37 G
Honda CR-V: 0.34 G
Subaru Forester: 0.31 G

So, despite our owning a RAV4 Hybrid, I view this video with great skepticism.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.amciglobal.com/

We create
Advocates

Strengthening relationships. Building belief. Inspiring people to buy your brand.

That’s advocacy. And that’s what we’ve been creating for more than 30 years.

 

[996GT2]

100% PR stunt

 

[HitAnyKey]

They keep saying "Certifies" What does that mean? Are these guys reliable reviewers of vehicles or was this purely a Marketing gimmick?

Having owned a 2011 RAV4 for just shy of 5 years I am a big fan of them.

Eug: how have you enjoyed your hybrid? Any issues? Fuel economy really good?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Stopping on ice 30-0 MPH:
Toyota RAV4: 240 feet
Subaru Forester: 269 feet
Chevy Equinox: 278 feet
Jeep Cherokee: 300 feet
Honda CR-V: 314 feet

This test isn't about AWD though. It's about ABS, the ratio of tire width to load on each time and most importantly, the tire itself.

A proper test would have used the same loading on the tires for surface area, with the same tire (let's be fair and go with Ice-Xs, Nokians or similar.

 

[Eug]

They keep saying "Certifies" What does that mean? Are these guys reliable reviewers of vehicles or was this purely a Marketing gimmick?

Having owned a 2011 RAV4 for just shy of 5 years I am a big fan of them.

Eug: how have you enjoyed your hybrid? Any issues? Fuel economy really good?

I like it, but I've only personally put about 20 km on it. And last I sat in it, it only had 115 km total. It's my wife's car. So, it will be a while before I get a really good feel for it.

 

[michal1980]

Feels like a certified ad.

 

[Eug]

I like it, but I've only personally put about 20 km on it. And last I sat in it, it only had 115 km total. It's my wife's car. So, it will be a while before I get a really good feel for it.

I will say the car doesn't really feel very sporty in terms of its handling, even with the P235/55R18 wheels on it. However, it's not bad, and pretty good compared to some other SUVs I've driven (see below). And it's quite comfortable (although a big step down from the Lexus, even with our Limited trim package). As for power, it's noticeably faster than my Prius, but that's not saying much. It also is nicer than the older gas-only RAV4s too, but I've only been in a few of them recently. The comfort may partially be due to the fact that I put on passenger tires instead of SUV tires for the winters: P215/65R17 X-Ice Xi3, although it was also comfortable with the stock wheels. Note that this car is not going off-road. It's a family car, so you view this assessment through that lens.

Below is the car with the winter tires and aftermarket aluminum rims on.

I really like the extra safety features like the 360 degree birds' eye view system, and I like the convenience features like the rear cargo space hammock and the heated steering wheel. Obviously, gas mileage for city driving is a big step up vs. regular gas crossovers too.

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of SUVs in general myself, since I don't like the feel with the increased height and the added weight. Overall I'm more of a sedan guy, and I do like sporty sedans too, but am fine with family sedans. Then again, this thing doesn't feel as utilitarian as the Jeeps I've driven. It's been a few years though since I've driven a Jeep SUV so I may be out of date there. Then there was my wife's ancient Jeep YJ that thankfully she got rid of over a decade ago. I despised that with a passion.

tl;dr:

The RAV4 Hybrid is a great family car in terms of practicality, safety features, fuel economy, and comfort. Acceleration is more than adequate for this purpose too. However, it may not satisfy some car enthusiasts because the handling is not very sporty.

 

[Eug]

So, in 2015 there was a similar test from AMCI. These are unmodified vehicles that are just broken in for a little bit and then tested. They keep the stock tires. So yeah, IMO this is largely just a test of all-season tire quality in the winter. Stupid test.

 

[Bull Dog]

After watching most of the video, and looking at the AMCI website, it seems clear to me that this is a shill video that was made to be shown to Toyota salesmen so they can say, "AMCI tested the RAV4 and it was the best in it's class on snow and ice.."

 

[HitAnyKey]

I will say the car doesn't really feel very sporty in terms of its handling, even with the P235/55R18 wheels on it. However, it's not bad, and pretty good compared to some other SUVs I've driven (see below). And it's quite comfortable (although a big step down from the Lexus, even with our Limited trim package). As for power, it's noticeably faster than my Prius, but that's not saying much. It also is nicer than the older gas-only RAV4s too, but I've only been in a few of them recently. The comfort may partially be due to the fact that I put on passenger tires instead of SUV tires for the winters: P215/65R17 X-Ice Xi3, although it was also comfortable with the stock wheels. Note that this car is not going off-road. It's a family car, so you view this assessment through that lens.

Below is the car with the winter tires and aftermarket aluminum rims on.

I really like the extra safety features like the 360 degree birds' eye view system, and I like the convenience features like the rear cargo space hammock and the heated steering wheel. Obviously, gas mileage for city driving is a big step up vs. regular gas crossovers too.

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of SUVs in general myself, since I don't like the feel with the increased height and the added weight. Overall I'm more of a sedan guy, and I do like sporty sedans too, but am fine with family sedans. Then again, this thing doesn't feel as utilitarian as the Jeeps I've driven. It's been a few years though since I've driven a Jeep SUV so I may be out of date there. Then there was my wife's ancient Jeep YJ that thankfully she got rid of over a decade ago. I despised that with a passion.

tl;dr:

The RAV4 Hybrid is a great family car in terms of practicality, safety features, fuel economy, and comfort. Acceleration is more than adequate for this purpose too. However, it may not satisfy some car enthusiasts because the handling is not very sporty.

That looks pretty good, especially in that colour. :thumbsup:

 

[Pulsar]

This is a shill video put out to try to hide the fact that their AWD system sucks balls.

In ALL these cases, what they're really boasting about is:
1. Tire traction.
2. Computer control.

Braking
Obviously, when you slam on the brakes your ABS kicks in. The update rate of the ABS sensor coupled with how quickly the system responds essentially determines the effectiveness. This is a test of how well their computer setup keeps the wheels in a semi-static friction state.

Acceleration
Not surprisingly, this is the exact same thing as braking in reverse. They are testing the computer programming and it's capability to detect and response to wheel slip.

Cornering
Same thing again. They measure the expected rate of different wheels and the yaw of the vehicle and make corrections to individual wheels using the brakes.

Does this testing tell us something? Yep. It tells us that they did a good job programming their system. Does this get around the fact that their so-called "all wheel drive" is total bullshit? Nope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs

Yeah. 2008. But because of their marketing they keep quietly getting away with fucking the consumers.

 

[Eug]

Honestly, while I think their conclusions are inappropriate, I also think yours are too.

As has been said about those roller tests about a bazillion times already elsewhere, inclined roller tests are also pretty meaningless for the intended use of those cars. Even on ice you'll get way more traction than a free rolling roller. But sure, if you're going to need to travel up rollers on a regular basis, feel free to buy a car that passes that test. Personally I don't really care.

BTW, Honda has already demonstrated previously that they can reprogram the system to easily pass that test simply with a firmware update if they want. But doing so doesn't really help customers in the real world, in 99.9% of use cases.

 

[Eug]

PS. As for the RAV4 AWD Hybrid, I'll remind people that it isn't a "conventional" AWD in any sense of the word. It has no rear driveshaft connecting to the front engines. The rear tires are powered by a completely separately electric motor (67 HP). So yeah, the actions of the rear wheels are completely computer controlled with power independent of the fronts.

I don't know what this means real world either in terms of effectiveness, but it means we cannot assume that behaviour of conventional AWD systems (good or bad) are representative of a Hybrid AWD system. Maybe the Hybrid AWD system has disadvantages, and maybe it has advantages, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a bit of both.

BTW, I was a little surprised to see that on this car Toyota has programmed the rear wheels to kick in when moving from a full stop even on dry pavement, but in retrospect I guess that makes sense. No slippage necessary to activate the AWD, but in this case it seems to me maybe to be using AWD both as a performance tweak in a way (low speed torque) and to prevent slippage say if the roads were wet, which would help considering it has low rolling resistance tires for stock tires. Once the car gets going though, it goes into 100% FWD mode.

I'm not sure if the regular AWD RAV4 or AWD CR-V for that matter do this too but I always assumed they didn't. I just figured they'd be in FWD mode accelerating from a full stop, and AWD would kick in only if the front wheels started to slip. Correct me if I'm wrong though.