AM2 Build Advice... especially RAM advice

[Gondorff]

First off, hello Anandtech forums! New guy here, but I browsed around a bit, and I was hoping that some of you computer veterans could help me out a bit on my college build.

Second off, I'm not going with Core 2, so please don't go there. I know how good it is and all, but I'm not getting it b/c I need to order ASAP and I'm not going to trust availability of the processors at launch, and because I haven't seen a motherboard for Core 2 that I like that is less than $250. Also, on principle I like to use a platform that is a bit more mature so I know that all the early bugs have been worked out.

Finally, my uses for this computer will be for graphics and photography (RAW editing and such) and also some dabbling in games here and there. And obviously the office type applications that any student uses, etc.

That having been said, here's the current state of the build:
Processor: Athlon64 X2 5000+ (or whatever drops to ~$300...)
Video Card: Gigabyte NV 7600GT with Silent Pipe II (passively cooled)
Motherboard: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe (nForce 570)
Memory: ?????????? (no more than $200)
Hard Drives: 2x Western Digital WD5000YS 500GB hard drives
PSU: Antec NeoHE 430W power supply (comes with Antec P150 case I'm getting)
Optical Drive: ????????? (~$50 or less)

So anyway, I was wondering if any of you peoples who know parts a bit better than I did could help me tweak my parts and help me finalize some of my decisions.

Some other info: I plan on making this computer pretty much silent. After the tornado that is my current computer, I can't wait to hear nothing. Having said that, I was wondering how much it would benefit me to upgrade to a 7900GT even though there is no passively cooled version of that card. It's not that I would really need the extra power so much now, but I plan on having this computer for the next 4 years or so, and it may come in handy for the future I guess? As far as memory, I do not really know what type I should get or how fast, given the rest of the specs for my system. Any suggestions would be welcome (below $200), although the motherboard is apparently not compatible with OCZ memory. Finally, for the optical drive, I just need a DVD burner that is reasonable and reliable. I hear that Plextor is good, but they seem to charge a premium, and there was only one in my price range that I can remember. Any input welcome.

And of course, I truly appreciate any help, whether it addresses one of my questions or all of them.


EDIT: About that "especially RAM advice" in the title... what I also meant to ask about is what I will have to do with memory once I get it. I always hear that the timings should be changed, but I cannot really understand the principles behind it for the life of me. If someone can fill me in on this, I'd really appreciate it. Note, however, that I am not overclocking.

 

[Howard]

hehe, AM2 has only been around for a few months.

I'm running a Pioneer DVR-111D, but the NEC ND-3550A is also a good choice.

Do you require SLI? The NeoHE may also not work with your motherboard... unless you get a newer one, but not all the old ones are out of the market yet.

 

[Gondorff]

Originally posted by: Howard
hehe, AM2 has only been around for a few months.

I'm running a Pioneer DVR-111D, but the NEC ND-3550A is also a good choice.

Do you require SLI? The NeoHE may also not work with your motherboard... unless you get a newer one, but not all the old ones are out of the market yet.

Thanks a lot for the advice

Heh... good point about AM2, although I sort of see it as only an evolutionary increase from 939, whereas Core 2 is much more unlike anything before it...

I'm not going to be using SLI (there just wasn't a non-SLI motherboard with the features I want), so that shouldn't be a problem for power. As for the motherboard being incompatible with the old revisions of the PSU, I searched around for a long long time and the only incompatible Asus motherboards ever reported seemed to be A8N32's (i think that's the right one). If anyone knows of any issues ever reported with Asus's nForce5 boards, please let me know! However, I really really like that case far more than any I've seen otherwise and would like to use the included PSU if possible, and the Asus board seems to best fit my needs from what I've seen, so if there's no reported incidents with that board, I think I'll try my luck.

and I'll look into those optical drives you mentioned... thanks for the help!

 

[Howard]

The Antec Solo is basically the same thing.

 

[Gondorff]

Originally posted by: Howard
The Antec Solo is basically the same thing.

I was excited when I heard that it was coming out, but I was disappointed by how the case looked in black. Personal preference, but I will be looking at this think for the next few years, so I want to get something I like. If truly need be, I will replace the power supply in the P150 with something better.

btw... I don't want to give the wrong impression... that whatever you recommend, I'm just going to say I prefer my own ideas anyway.... this just happens to be one of the parts that I'm sure I want.

 

[Operandi]

I'm planning an upgrade and am laying out both AM2 and Core2 systems. Although I will most likely go with Core2 despite the high prices of currently available compatible motherboards, I'll share what I came up with for my AM2 build.

Motherboard: ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe (good choice)
RAM: mushkin Enhanced DDR2 667
PSU: Seasonic S12 380 watt This is a top tier PSU. Antec is has been known to use lower quality materials (caps particularly) so you are much better off with choosing a case and PSU separately.
Case: I'm set with my current case but I'm going to recommend the Lian Li PC-7B.
Optical I've had good luck with Samsung drives.

Edit for low noise add-ons, silent by definition is zero noise not practical, or even possible.

Case fans: 120mm Yate Loon 2x.
CPU HS/F: Zalman CNPS 9500

 

[Howard]

According to Anandtech.com, all the DDR2-667 (and some 533, I think) memory they tested did DDR2-800 at 4-4-4 or better.

 

[OSX]

Core 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&gt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&gt
>>>>>>>>>> AM2

Your loss, can you wait just a few more weeks for a much better value?

 

[us3rnotfound]

Originally posted by: OSX
Core 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AM2

Your loss, can you wait just a few more weeks for a much better value?

I think he's thinking ignorance is bliss .

 

[Makaveli]

can't you two go thread crap somewhere else.

 

[Gondorff]

Originally posted by: OSX
Core 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AM2

Your loss, can you wait just a few more weeks for a much better value?

I actually really can't. A few more weeks and I'm headed for college for my first year. I have no other computer that I could take with me, and there is no way I am going to start college without a computer (in addition, it would make it impossible to transfer all my data from my current computer... there's no SATA in my current computer). Furthermore, while the Core 2 Duo 6600 may soundly thwack the Athlon64 X2 5000, it will also be more expensive, especially considering that the only motherboards for it that I like are $100 more than the motherboard I am currently looking at. That may change in a couple weeks, yet it is still irrelevant based on my time constraints.

Originally posted by: us3rnotfound
I think he's thinking ignorance is bliss .

I am fully aware of the performance of Core 2 and how it compares to AM2. If I were going to college a month later, I would almost certainly be getting Core 2. I am not an AMD fanboy; it is just the only sensible option I can see based on my time constraints. I am cutting it closer than I like already by waiting for the price cuts.

Enough about Core 2.


On another note, thank you Operandi for your useful and relevant information. I'm still dead set on my case, although I may replace the power supply as has been recommended (all other cases seem to my taste to be either too bland or too bling... I know, I'm picky). About the RAM, will I need to change timings etc so they work properly/optimally (without overclocking)? I'm still lost when it comes to tweaking RAM, so if I need to do so, an explanation or a link to one would be greatly appreciated. Finally, will a 380W PSU be enough? I don't really know much about power requirements, but with people buying 600 and 700W PSU's (albeit for much more elaborate systems) I was already worried about the 430W not being enough.

...and yes, I know about silence being zero noise, etc... just chose the wrong word

Originally posted by: Makaveli
can't you two go thread crap somewhere else.

Thanks

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: Gondorff
On another note, thank you Operandi for your useful and relevant information. I'm still dead set on my case, although I may replace the power supply as has been recommended (all other cases seem to my taste to be either too bland or too bling... I know, I'm picky). About the RAM, will I need to change timings etc so they work properly/optimally (without overclocking)? I'm still lost when it comes to tweaking RAM, so if I need to do so, an explanation or a link to one would be greatly appreciated. Finally, will a 380W PSU be enough? I don't really know much about power requirements, but with people buying 600 and 700W PSU's (albeit for much more elaborate systems) I was already worried about the 430W not being enough.

...and yes, I know about silence being zero noise, etc... just chose the wrong word

The P-150 is nothing special, an above average steel and plastic case but nothing compared to a anodized AL Lian Li, plastic always pales to AL. Besides most of the cost is in the PSU which isn't particularly spectacular either. Both cases will get the job done but one will do it with more style then the other, think of it as a Lexus vs. a Toyota.

The 380 watt S12 will be plenty. I've used that PSU for builds more power hungry then yours in the past, and it will also be powering my next system (if I go through with it). Most people who buy 600+ watt PSUs do so out of ignorance or for bragging rights. For further reading check out this excellent SPCR article.

RAM tweaking is usually not necessary if you are not overclocking it. Just let the motherboard use the SPD for the right speed and timings. If you want to double check it you can make sure with CPU-Z.

 

[IdaGno]

http://www.lostcircuits.com/motherboard/foxconn_c51xem2aa/

nVidia's releases of the nForce 590 SLI chipset and reference designs have been implemented one way or the other by a number of manufacturers - each of which has added a little bit of his or her own secret sauce to make things more comfoming to the rest of the product line-up, shave off a few pennies here and there or simply "because". There is, however, Foxconn, who manufactured the original , nVidia-internal reference boards. Reference boards have in the past always stomped the final production versions - in terms of performance and reliability and, often enough, also in terms of overall compatibility. Reason enough to greet reference boards with a bit of skepticism. However, in this case, we have a one-to-one conversion of a reference design into a GTO production - with an unspeakable name, produced by Foxconn and sold at a perfectly acceptable price.

The main focus of this article is the difference in performance between the ASUS M2N32-SLI board and the Foxconn "C51" but some of this also relates to compatibility issues. For example, the ASUS board was extremely finicky with all different types of memory, whereas the Foxconn board ran with everything we threw at it without the slightest problem. Likewise, the ASUS board did not run certain applications, for example Call of Duty2 launched but the benchmark did not execute at all. In addition, there were apparent problems with the SATA interfacing, essentially each installation of WindowsXP Pro lasted a day or two until things got corrupted. In all fairness, we were dealing with a preproduction sample and things have probably improved in the final production even though memory compatibility issues appear to persist.

 

[cleverhandle]

PSU: Antec's reputation has taken a lot of hits lately. And Seasonics, besides having a rep for reliability, are also known for near-silence (which you seem to want). So I would second Operandi's recommendation of the S12-380. If you suspect that you might venture into overclocking or want bigger video cards in the foreseeable future, I'd go with the S12-430 instead, but definitely no more than that. Of course, then you're basically burning money on the bundled Antec unit. I would suggest you take a good look at other cases - there are a lot of nice ones out there (I also like LL's myself) for reasonable prices. Antec isn't near the value leader they used to be. Especially if you end up replacing their PSU.

Memory: Just buy whatever's cheap and from a reputable manufacturer - "premium" memory costs a lot more for very little gain. I've always sent my business to Crucial, because I've had excellent service from them, but Mushkin and many others are fine too. As for timings, just set them to whatever the memory is spec'ed for and leave them alone. Memory tweaking is costly in time for stability testing and provides little benefit outside of benchmarks. I wouldn't trust the mobo's SPD straight off, though - I've seen boards get that wrong. It only takes a minute to check the specs.

Optical: Unless you're going to be burning stuff constantly, Plextors are a waste of money IMO. The NEC Howard mentioned is fine and cheap. Honestly, I think the technology is mature enough there that you're unlikely to hit serious problems regardless of your pick.

edit: IdaGno's quote reminds me to mention that you should check out your memory against the mobo's official list (usually found in the manual). One of the reasons I like Crucial is that almost every board is checked against Crucial/Micron chips.

 

[acegazda]

Originally posted by: IdaGno
http://www.lostcircuits.com/motherboard/foxconn_c51xem2aa/

nVidia's releases of the nForce 590 SLI chipset and reference designs have been implemented one way or the other by a number of manufacturers - each of which has added a little bit of his or her own secret sauce to make things more comfoming to the rest of the product line-up, shave off a few pennies here and there or simply "because". There is, however, Foxconn, who manufactured the original , nVidia-internal reference boards. Reference boards have in the past always stomped the final production versions - in terms of performance and reliability and, often enough, also in terms of overall compatibility. Reason enough to greet reference boards with a bit of skepticism. However, in this case, we have a one-to-one conversion of a reference design into a GTO production - with an unspeakable name, produced by Foxconn and sold at a perfectly acceptable price.

The main focus of this article is the difference in performance between the ASUS M2N32-SLI board and the Foxconn "C51" but some of this also relates to compatibility issues. For example, the ASUS board was extremely finicky with all different types of memory, whereas the Foxconn board ran with everything we threw at it without the slightest problem. Likewise, the ASUS board did not run certain applications, for example Call of Duty2 launched but the benchmark did not execute at all. In addition, there were apparent problems with the SATA interfacing, essentially each installation of WindowsXP Pro lasted a day or two until things got corrupted. In all fairness, we were dealing with a preproduction sample and things have probably improved in the final production even though memory compatibility issues appear to persist.

This looks like the MoBo to beat for overclockability, a good turnaround for foxcon. I was disappointed with their previous products. It is a tad more expensive than the OP's MoBo he picked at $200, but IMO, it's worth it.

 

[Gondorff]

Thanks guys for the replies... sorry I didn't respond so promptly (not without reason, I promise)...

About the case and psu... I'm going to take a serious look at both again, considering how you all feel about them. As acclaimed and well-liked Lian Li cases are, I've never seemed to be very impressed with them, but maybe I need to take another look. My mom's a designer, so I'll ask her opinion as well (though she better not tell me to get a mac....)

About RAM, thanks for the info... I'm glad that I won't have to go doing lots of tweaking... for whatever reason, I've always been afraid of fiddling with memory in specific... Also, it's good to know that I don't need some crazy performance memory to have a good experience.

@Optical drive: I am going to go with one of the drives Howard suggested... I've had good experiences with Pioneer, so that might be the one. I was already skeptical of the Plextors, but I was just throwing it out there to see what the reactions were.

Finally... about the motherboard, while I value your opinion, acegazda, I'm fairly set with my motherboard given its price and some key features that I like that the Foxconn doesn't have. I'm not going to be pushing the limits of the motherboard or chipset really, so a high end nForce 590 board seems a bit overkill.

All in all... thanks to all you guys for helping me out... with your help, and some luck, I hope to have a nice new compie on my desk pretty soon