Miscthree
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- May 1, 2011
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I'm curious as to all the suggestions for Vaio Z. Having used two VAIO laptops and two desktops, I can attest that their drivers are very "delicate" and restricted. Even worse, in my opinion, is how they guard service info and spare parts.
That been said, I admire several VAIO designs and their claims of material sustainability. However, the non-repairable design completely negates the positives.
That been said, I admire several VAIO designs and their claims of material sustainability. However, the non-repairable design completely negates the positives.
Who said Samsung has no competition to Mac? I'd take this over the MBA any day.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-NP900X.../dp/B004NF3Z82
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-NP900X.../dp/B004NF3Z82
vbuggy
Golden Member
- Nov 13, 2005
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Who wants a knockoff? Even the bag it comes in is '08-era Air. D:
Still, if you secretly want an Air but don't want to show it, I guess it's not a bad choice.
vbuggy
Golden Member
- Nov 13, 2005
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Do they need one like an Air (mine were all invisibleshielded, and treated like glass slippers so I didn't have to make as frequent a visit to the Apple Store)? I could throw my Z's and X's into my bag. Heck, in the case of some Sony's and Lenovo's I can even slip and bang my backpack against a concrete bollard without being resigned to a V-shaped Apple.
Or am I doing something wrong? :hmm:
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I thought we were talking about computers, not purses.
"Knock Off" is what the SB CPU in that Samsung will do to whatever undeserving pedestal the MBA may have previously occupied.
Thanks, but as I've said previously in this thread, 1360x768 is not cutting it in my current laptop, so I'm looking to upgrade. Otherwise, yeah, it's a much better match to my tastes and needs - too bad!
Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
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Sony Vaio Z with Sandy Bridge
13.1" 1600x900
Intel Core i5-2410M
4GB DDR3
128GB SSD
A/B/G/N Bluetooth & 3G
USB 3.0, Light Peak (with option for external discrete GPU)
0.66" thick
2.6 pounds
7 hour battery
$1900
13.1" 1600x900
Intel Core i5-2410M
4GB DDR3
128GB SSD
A/B/G/N Bluetooth & 3G
USB 3.0, Light Peak (with option for external discrete GPU)
0.66" thick
2.6 pounds
7 hour battery
$1900
and 6 months later the vaio z will sell for 50% of $1900 and 3 years later it will sell for $300 
I am in process of selling my 2008 macbook air for $699 right now. lol.
I am in process of selling my 2008 macbook air for $699 right now. lol.
I just can't get into the Vaio Z's new styling. I loved the old styling, but the new design looks so clunky.
and 6 months later the vaio z will sell for 50% of $1900 and 3 years later it will sell for $300
I am in process of selling my 2008 macbook air for $699 right now.
And how much did you pay for it?
and 6 months later the vaio z will sell for 50% of $1900 and 3 years later it will sell for $300
I am in process of selling my 2008 macbook air for $699 right now. lol.
It seems possible that it's $1900 *minus* 20% vat, making it ~1500-1600, closer to competing with the 13" MBA.
It's as close to what I want as it comes... the only thing I've heard is that Sony isn't as good "quality" as Lenovo/Apple. This is just the general feeling I've gotten from user reviews, and my own experience with thier CE stuff. They are not quite top-tier, while charging top-tier prices.
Resale is not an issue, I never resell my stuff - maybe I should start!
This actually works against the Mac. I got a VPC-Z122GX (retail $1799) for $900 two months after it was released. The store's regular price was $1499. It was being replaced by the VPC-Z13 (yeah, Sony updated the model in 2 months, and 2 months later they came out with the VPC-Z14). So the store marked it down to $1200 as a closeout. Then they mailed out a 25% off coupon in a special promotion for repeat customers, dropping it to $900. (I then sent in an old laptop for Sony's $300 trade-in program, so after all was said and done I paid $600 out of pocket.)and 6 months later the vaio z will sell for 50% of $1900 and 3 years later it will sell for $300
I am in process of selling my 2008 macbook air for $699 right now. lol.
You will never see markdowns like that for Macs. So your choice is a full-priced current Mac, a 1 year old model for 15% less, or a 2 year old model for 30% less, or buy used and pay twice as much as for a similar-aged new PC. So yeah you'll get more for it when you sell it. But if you compare the deltas between paid and sold prices, you end up paying a lot more for the Mac (unless you bought a bleeding edge PC laptop).
Consequently, the specs on my 9-month old Sony Z blow away the specs on the current Macbook Air even though discounted 50% it's substantially cheaper than the Air. 2.4 GHz i5 vs. 1.86 GHz Core 2 Duo. 4 GB upgradeable vs. 2 GB soldered. 1600x900 screen vs. 1440x900. Dedicated nVidia GT 330M w/ 1 GB vs. 320M integrated. HDMI+VGA out vs. mini Displayport. 3 USB ports vs. 2. DVD-RW vs. nothing. Expresscard slot vs. nothing. Gigabit LAN port vs. nothing. The specs where the Air wins out are mostly inconsequential: 13.3" screen vs 13.1", 7 hr battery vs. 5 hr, 2.9 lbs vs. 2.98 lbs, 3-17mm vs 24-33mm, and all-aluminum construction vs. aluminum keyboard bezel.
It's better than most PC laptop screens, but it's only decent - there are much better PC laptop and other Macbook screens out there (especially the old Macbook IPS panels). I do photo work on my laptops, and the Air's color shift with vertical angles was simply unacceptable. The Sony Z has the same problem (it's a TN panel too), but it's much brighter than the Air (I only raise it above 50% when outdoors - it's too bright indoors) and has better viewing angles, so I find it adequate. I really miss the IPS panels though, and probably would've jumped on the X220 if it had been out when I was shopping.
Apple seems to be the only laptop manufacturer who really cares about the screens. Theirs range from decent to stellar. But their low- and mid-grade models (including the Air) only have decent to good screens. That said, PC laptop screens usually range from sucks to decent. But certain manufacturers do put good to stellar screens on certain laptops. In my experience, these include Sony, Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, and Asus. You just have to be prepared to pay for them - don't expect them on the low-end laptops. (Except the original Asus netbook. That had a better screen than 95% of the laptops out there - LOL).
Isn't the lenovo X1 out already? It's a modern squared-off macbook air wearing a suit and tie. Looks awesome and has up to an i7 cpu.
I was in a similar situation as you - wanted something lightweight with higher than a 1366 x 768 (or 1280 x 800) resolution on a 14" or smaller display.
I got a vaio S series after the lenovo website wasn't working, and a promotion expired on the t420s which they wouldn't give me again (jerks). I like it. I like my SA, although after having used a thinkpad, I definitely prefer the thinkpad keyboard.
One advantage that this computer (and the 420s) had, in my mind, was discrete graphics.
I got a vaio S series after the lenovo website wasn't working, and a promotion expired on the t420s which they wouldn't give me again (jerks). I like it. I like my SA, although after having used a thinkpad, I definitely prefer the thinkpad keyboard.
One advantage that this computer (and the 420s) had, in my mind, was discrete graphics.
smakme7757
Golden Member
- Nov 20, 2010
- 1,487
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OP, I'm in the exact same spot. Looking for a light weight laptop with higher than 1366 x 768 resolution and preferably matte.
Actually the glossy screen is the only downside of the MBA. It has higher resolution screen, double SSD capacity (256 GB) at the same weight and price as a Samsung 900x3a. actually it's even a bit cheaper. This is the first Apple product with reasonable pricing, especially the 256 GB version seem a bargain it's only 100$ more than the 128 gb version at least here.
1440 x 900 (16:10) is also a very good resolution at that size.
I can spend a lot but the new Vaio Z is just too much for what it offers. The T420s is not much cheaper than sony but could get it with some rebate, but still about 400$ more than the MBA, better specs (which I don't need). Also screen is supposedly crappy on the T420s especially one of the 3 you can get, no backlit keyboard.
How easy can you install windows on an MBA? The thing is I would use it for my upcoming master thesis and hence would need MS office (and don't come with Mac version of office because I've seen it a lot it is just not fully compatible and we all know how messy it can get). Also I need netbeans which does seem to have some issues on OSX. Plus last time I used macs was about 15 years ago.
Actually the glossy screen is the only downside of the MBA. It has higher resolution screen, double SSD capacity (256 GB) at the same weight and price as a Samsung 900x3a. actually it's even a bit cheaper. This is the first Apple product with reasonable pricing, especially the 256 GB version seem a bargain it's only 100$ more than the 128 gb version at least here.
1440 x 900 (16:10) is also a very good resolution at that size.
I can spend a lot but the new Vaio Z is just too much for what it offers. The T420s is not much cheaper than sony but could get it with some rebate, but still about 400$ more than the MBA, better specs (which I don't need). Also screen is supposedly crappy on the T420s especially one of the 3 you can get, no backlit keyboard.
How easy can you install windows on an MBA? The thing is I would use it for my upcoming master thesis and hence would need MS office (and don't come with Mac version of office because I've seen it a lot it is just not fully compatible and we all know how messy it can get). Also I need netbeans which does seem to have some issues on OSX. Plus last time I used macs was about 15 years ago.
You haven't used Office 2011 for mac then. It is very similar to office 2010 for windows. It hasn't failed me yet.
Anyway, installing windows is easy, but 7 hours battery life becomes 3-4 hours, you want to avoid it if possible, or just run windows in a virtual machine. I did that because I wanted to use OneNote, the one thing that office for mac is genuinely lacking.
Anyway, installing windows is easy, but 7 hours battery life becomes 3-4 hours, you want to avoid it if possible, or just run windows in a virtual machine. I did that because I wanted to use OneNote, the one thing that office for mac is genuinely lacking.
wouldn't running windows within a VM lead to even less battery life than running plain windows?
About Office for Mac: I never used it but recently saw few presenter that made their PowerPoint on a mac and presented using windows. Pictures were randomly missing as integrated movies and supposedly other stuff was wrong according to the shocked presenter.
That would speak for a T420s. Also has bad battery life but it does last about 3-4 hours and you can get a bay battery.
Im not sure, but os x does some power management tricks that windows doesnt, so keeping windows in the virtual might give you better battery life, but obviously running a VM is going to hurt.
vbuggy
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vbuggy
Golden Member
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What even (inexperienced) reviewers leave out is that the Sammy has a three-year warranty as standard - if you compare with Applecare the prices are similar.
If you're primarily in Windows and really, desperately want something that looks like an Air (the design of the Samsung is a mish-mash of the first-gen Air and some other mildly original elements, not all of them work IMO) but actually works properly in Windows, it's a no-brainer: Get the Samsung. Longer runtime than the 13-inch in Windows (fanboi reviews such as Engadget put runtimes roughly similar, but this is because they ignore all vendor and even some Windows-specific power management in order to give the Air as much of an advantage as possible), and obviously full Windows driver support (and the differences are important). I make that first disclaimer as I wasn't a big fan of the Samsung, although it is easier to live with than the Air - but then I'm not a fan of the Air either.
In terms of work I have to move back to the Crapbook Air's since my new use involves OS X on a regular ad hoc basis - but since I would have to use Windows more on the whole, I'm considering various options to get around the limitations such as using an external battery with an 11-inch (not actually sure if I could tolerate using one as my primary carry), or even carrying a Sony Z along with an 11-inch. Ideally I'd like to virtualise OS X on a Windows machine worth a damn and be done with it, but to date none of the solutions have been stable or usable enough for me.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Regarding the Sony build quality, it's a matter of perceptions. By that, I mean that Sony has some problems in terms of meeting the expectations of your average joe because they have a very heavily engineering-based approach to making their flagships. The screens are flexy - why? So that they can bend to absorb impacts. This does result in an attendant problem in that the screen flexes against the keyboard and picks up marks over time. Sony undoubtedly considered this a fair trade-off. The body feels like plastic instead of 'carbon fiber' - why? Because it *is* plastic, basically resin with a load of loose fibres dumped in it. It's not as strong as 'real' carbon, but making a notebook out of thermoset would perhaps add another zero to the price and it is a darned sight better material to make lightweight durable notebooks from than e.g. aluminium.
Whereas Apple, whatever they may say about their engineering (which is in reality pretty poor), is basically industrial design by marketing - the less informed you are, the more likely you are to consider their way of doing things superior: Metal = good. Stiff = good. Shiny = good. And unfortunately perhaps, it works, especially among the yammering bloggerati set in terms of influencing how they approach the gear.
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Since I'm considering a T420s it's obvious I don't' care much about looks as long as it isn't pink.
The Samsung has a 1366 x 768 screen. This is a no-go. 768 is just not enough vertically, 900 acceptable.
The MBA is just very well rounded in terms of hardware, screen and size/weight and price.
I'm actually anything but an Apple Fan. I often make fun of them and say they produce expensive crap. At least some friends would find it funny if I bought an MBA. But if windows laptop manufactures can't get their shit together...
BTW I don't expect a Vaio Z to have any better battery life
Are there any possible other downsides of Windows 7 on MBA besides battery life?
Just found:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/25/macbook-air-review-mid-2011/
5:32 on OSX, 4:12 in Win 7 playing a video in a loop. I could not however determine what kind of video. If it is a HD H264, then not bad at all.
The Samsung has a 1366 x 768 screen. This is a no-go. 768 is just not enough vertically, 900 acceptable.
The MBA is just very well rounded in terms of hardware, screen and size/weight and price.
I'm actually anything but an Apple Fan. I often make fun of them and say they produce expensive crap. At least some friends would find it funny if I bought an MBA. But if windows laptop manufactures can't get their shit together...
BTW I don't expect a Vaio Z to have any better battery life
Are there any possible other downsides of Windows 7 on MBA besides battery life?
Just found:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/25/macbook-air-review-mid-2011/
5:32 on OSX, 4:12 in Win 7 playing a video in a loop. I could not however determine what kind of video. If it is a HD H264, then not bad at all.
vbuggy
Golden Member
- Nov 13, 2005
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As I said, engadget reviews among others don't take into account vendor-specific power management and even some Windows PM.
The simple fact is that I've never been able to squeeze what Apple-leaning pubs get in terms of everyday genuine working on a Mac, while I have been able to blow past what the same pubs get in terms of Windows machines. Oddly enough though, Windows runtimes on Crapbooks - pretty much agree in terms of the percentage discrepancy between OS X life and Win life measured on the same machine. Make of that what you will.
Re: Z, I guess we'll see, but generally speaking I've been able to squeeze within 1 hour of claimed runtime in real-life situations. Applewise, in OS X (i.e. with the full power-saving advantages) I've consistently maintained a ~1.3 ratio - i.e. 6 hours claimed, ~4.6 hours real across the entire product range (although on the only '11 models I have right now - the 17-inch, I've seen it drop below that).
When I get the Z I'll run the same tests as I usually do. In the meanwhile, I should be knee-deep in i7 11/13" Crapboooks soon. (Mind you, I've had every single refresh of the 13-inch Crapbook Air which I was hoping to end by getting rid of the late '10 13-inchers a couple of months ago - so I'm not expecting any big surprises, although the Pro experience is a little disconcerting)
Edit: typo - "generally speaking" should be "generally speaking in the case of Sony" of course...
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