Am I Right or Wrong?? Need Help On EGay Transaction!!!

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76
I recently sold a car stereo head unit on egay, the head unit was bought by me from ebay couple weeks earlier but because of my lamitaion of installaion knowlege I can't get the thing working, besides that I didn't have an amp so even if it worked, i wouldn't know, that is why i decided to sell the item as-is so whoever wants it will need to take a chance on it.
 
Last edited:

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0
Well you did state "it does work" without confirming it yourself even though you sold it "as-is".

Even though you sold it as is, if it doesn't work, I see a false-representation of product on your part.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
If you sell soemthing 'as is' without the buyer being able to examine it first hand before purchasing, you better be damn specific about what problems may exist with the item that you are aware of. There is a big difference between you not being able to install it and the unit possibly being broken. If it was reasonable to expect a working product based off your description and didn't he get it, he has every right to demand a refund.
 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76


<< If you sell soemthing 'as is' without the buyer being able to examine it first hand before purchasing, you better be damn specific about what problems may exist with the item that you are aware of. There is a big difference between you not being able to install it and the unit possibly being broken. If it was reasonable to expect a working product based off your description and didn't he get it, he has every right to demand a refund. >>



The only problem I was aware of it that it dosen't work, and most likely due to my installation problem, because I contacted the 1st seller, and he assured me that its my end of porblem of installing it incorrectly.
Thats why I decide to resell it and let someone who knows what they're doing to install it......I can't say it was broken because I can't test it myself, which is why i didn't say the item is broke, nor did i say the item work for sure.....the item 'works fors sure' was just a quote from the orginal seller's item description....I put it in because i want buyer to know what the condion of the item 'supposed' to be.

Does this also mean that I can return the item to the orginal seller where I got the item from, although he also stated sold-as-is? would ebay or paypal backme up on making him give me the full refound since the unit is a non working unit for sure?
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
What I do is just put full details of what I'll do in the auction before hand...info on returns and the like. Then, they really can't say anything after
 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0


<<

<< If you sell soemthing 'as is' without the buyer being able to examine it first hand before purchasing, you better be damn specific about what problems may exist with the item that you are aware of. There is a big difference between you not being able to install it and the unit possibly being broken. If it was reasonable to expect a working product based off your description and didn't he get it, he has every right to demand a refund. >>



The only problem I was aware of it that it dosen't work, and most likely due to my installation problem, because I contacted the 1st seller, and he assured me that its my end of porblem of installing it incorrectly.
Thats why I decide to resell it and let someone who knows what they're doing to install it......I can't say it was broken because I can't test it myself, which is why i didn't say the item is broke, nor did i say the item work for sure.....the item 'works fors sure' was just a quote from the orginal seller's item description....I put it in because i want buyer to know what the condion of the item 'supposed' to be.

Does this also mean that I can return the item to the orginal seller where I got the item from, although he also stated sold-as-is? would ebay or paypal backme up on making him give me the full refound since the unit is a non working unit for sure?
>>




Well, you are kind of arguing over your own statement. It's like you said, "it works, but I don't know and its your risk". It's a fact you stated something as a fact when you had no idea and it resulted in a conflit. I see that as a negligence on your part for presenting your assumption as a fact and if you want to preserve your reputation, I'd give him a full refund. If I was the seller and you pointed out a mistake in my parts, I'd give you a full refund, because I made an error.



 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
Yeah, if it were me, I would have hounded the original seller about getting a refund if I couldn't get it to work. You can't sell something 'as is' a working item if it doesn't work in the first place.
 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76


<<
Well, you are kind of arguing over your own statement. It's like you said, "it works, but I don't know and its your risk". It's a fact you stated something as a fact when you had no idea and it resulted in a conflit. I see that as a negligence on your part for presenting your assumption as a fact and if you want to preserve your reputation, I'd give him a full refund. If I was the seller and you pointed out a mistake in my parts, I'd give you a full refund, because I made an error.
>>



"it works, but I don't know and its your risk" ya thats what I said, It should work, but I don't know because i can't test it, so you buy at your own risk, but whats it so wrong about it? I stated that in the auction didn't I....
I personally thought i am a pretty good as both a buyer and seller since whever someone stated as-is, I would never ask for refound or sort after I bought the item, and as a seller I stick to whatever I stated on my item description.....this is basically the 1st problem i encountered in my ebay transaction.....

But you do think its my fault for saying "it work, but i don't know, therefore sold-as-is"? so I should definetly give him a full refound since even I stated "i don't know, sold-as-is" rite??
 

LeStEr

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 1999
3,412
0
0
By stating the original auction info you incinuated that the item was working. But you did say the item was sold as-is. Tough situation. I would refund him and then talk to the original seller about getting annother refund for yourself...
 

MajesticMoose

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
3,030
0
0
I don't think you did anything wrong. You never said outright that the unit worked. You sold it as is. That usually means, no garuntee. Anytime you buy something "as-is" you ought to be assuming that there is something wrong. This guy is just pissed that he didn't get really lucky.

m00se
 

LeStEr

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 1999
3,412
0
0
You also lied in your auction info by saying you bought it a week before when really you got it in december ......
 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0
First of all, everything I say is basically my opinion so don't take it personally and scorn me about it ok?



<<
"it works, but I don't know and its your risk" ya thats what I said, It should work, but I don't know because i can't test it, so you buy at your own risk, but whats it so wrong about it? I stated that in the auction didn't I....
>>



I believe it is partially a problem on your parts, becuase that's such an irresponsible things to say and the problem is in your wording.



<<
I personally thought i am a pretty good as both a buyer and seller since whever someone stated as-is, I would never ask for refound or sort after I bought the item, and as a seller I stick to whatever I stated on my item description.....this is basically the 1st problem i encountered in my ebay transaction.....
>>



Saying "as-is" does not protect you from stating something your unsure of as a fact.



<<
But you do think its my fault for saying "it work, but i don't know, therefore sold-as-is"? so I should definetly give him a full refound since even I stated "i don't know, sold-as-is" rite??
>>



Well you didn't exactly word it like how I summarized it and you placed alot more emphasis on reassurance of proper function than as-is.


Lets take a look at your original writing


I bought this headunit from ebay a week ago, but I can't figure out how to intall it, seems like it dosen't have build in amp and you need your own amp. I will be taking paypal, and money orders only, s/h with insurance is $12.50, the 3 extra 3disc cd shuttles in the picture is not included, only one will be included,


item sold as is.


Looks ok up to this point.


Here is the orginal description for the item: "Alpine 7982 3 disc cd player/tune Alpine's pre-amp AM/FM tuner. It comes with rca outs front and rear, detachable face plate, 6 disc cd change bus-line out, illumination colours can be switched from green to red. 3 disc in dash cd player. Pass code has been reset to factory. I can tell you how to enter the code crrectly.


Description seems okay to me other than I have no idea how you know it was set to factory default when you couldn't get it installed right

This source unit has been sitting in my garage for a year since the truck was sold, but has been tested and inspected before it was put up for sale.

This is what I meant when I said you're arguing to yourself on as-is. You didn't test the product and you're stating a false information. The original seller said it works, but you neglected to indicate that "I was informed that unit is in good functional order from the person I purchased this from, however I have not tested this myself and I don't assume any responsibility for it"

The unit does work correctly. Overall physical condition is ok, The unit is 8 years old now and has been in several vehicles. Normal wear and tear is evident. This unit was $1000 brand new. I also will include 3 extra 3disc cd shuttles. I paid $79 for all three a few years ago.

Here, you're again presenting whatever you're told, you believe or assume as a statement. When you make statements, it is your responsibility to ensure your statements holds true.

This unit is used and is sold as is. It does work!

For the third time, you're clearly affirming your statement that unit is in functional order when you have no idea. I would rule this as negligence on your behalf for affirmatively stating something works when you're not sure and attempting to hold the buyer responsible if it doesn't.

Had your statements been all true, the buyer should have assumed the responsibility, but you admit that your statements are not entirely true.

reffering to eBay as EGAY is an unprofessional things to do in the world of business and does nothing but to bruise your credibility.
 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76
i was thinking about giving him a full refound, but seems like more ppl agreed and voted that i'm right and should keep the money...hm...

i guess i need more inputs....since i really see nothing wrong sayint item works, but i don't know, therefore sold-as-is....I mean if I can make sure the item works then i woould say somthing like item work, I tested, and it works....
the reason behind sold as is is beause i can't test the item to make sure it work....

and if a refound, i am thinking about sending this email.I will give you $85.01 back. As a seller, i will cover paypay and ebay fees, as a buyer even at some of the bigger online stores, you pay s/h, or think of it as newegg return policy, pretty good deal consider its sold-as-is and u get to buy it, test it, dont like it, then return it. I mean how do i know that you r not the one who broke it.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0
Walay,

You are being more then fair offering a refund minus transaction costs. I might suggest, however, that when you do an as-is auction you use the phrase "AS-IS, NO WARRANTY, NO RETURN", and make sure it is bold and seperate from the rest of the listing.

Russ, NCNE
 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0


<< i was thinking about giving him a full refound, but seems like more ppl agreed and voted that i'm right and should keep the money...hm...

i guess i need more inputs....since i really see nothing wrong sayint item works, but i don't know, therefore sold-as-is....I mean if I can make sure the item works then i woould say somthing like item work, I tested, and it works....
the reason behind sold as is is beause i can't test the item to make sure it work....

and if a refound, i am thinking about sending this email.I will give you $85.01 back. As a seller, i will cover paypay and ebay fees, as a buyer even at some of the bigger online stores, you pay s/h, or think of it as newegg return policy, pretty good deal consider its sold-as-is and u get to buy it, test it, dont like it, then return it. I mean how do i know that you r not the one who broke it.
>>



um so... is there a flaw in my argument? point it out please.. I want to become a good arguer


 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76
Ya, I see your point, but I wasn't try to lie or anything...the reason i put in the orginal seller's description is because so people can see what the unit is 'suppose' to be like when i got it supposely.....
also because i am lazy and don't wanna retype the whole item fuction again.....
and i did say I can't/can not test the unit my self..so I can't/can not support whatever fact the orginal seller said....
which is why the item is sold-as-is which also means I'm not responsible for it....and buyer will be responsible for it...
i thought the defination of sold-as-is=no warranty, no return, no refound, buy at your own risk, u might make it work, u might not....thats also why i only put sold-as-is.

Also no, i didn't meant to lie about i got the hu a week ago on ebay....thats was just like a saying...
besides thats i'm pretty busy, and really didn't take the time to think when i "actually" get the unit....
you can ask me almost anything about when did somthing happend...and i can alwasy tell you about a week ago:p
I don't think it matters because I mean does it matter to anybody when i got the unit?
and if it really matters you can easily find out.......




<< First of all, everything I say is basically my opinion so don't take it personally and scorn me about it ok?



<<
"it works, but I don't know and its your risk" ya thats what I said, It should work, but I don't know because i can't test it, so you buy at your own risk, but whats it so wrong about it? I stated that in the auction didn't I....
>>



I believe it is partially a problem on your parts, becuase that's such an irresponsible things to say and the problem is in your wording.



<<
I personally thought i am a pretty good as both a buyer and seller since whever someone stated as-is, I would never ask for refound or sort after I bought the item, and as a seller I stick to whatever I stated on my item description.....this is basically the 1st problem i encountered in my ebay transaction.....
>>



Saying "as-is" does not protect you from stating something your unsure of as a fact.



<<
But you do think its my fault for saying "it work, but i don't know, therefore sold-as-is"? so I should definetly give him a full refound since even I stated "i don't know, sold-as-is" rite??
>>



Well you didn't exactly word it like how I summarized it and you placed alot more emphasis on reassurance of proper function than as-is.


Lets take a look at your original writing


I bought this headunit from ebay a week ago, but I can't figure out how to intall it, seems like it dosen't have build in amp and you need your own amp. I will be taking paypal, and money orders only, s/h with insurance is $12.50, the 3 extra 3disc cd shuttles in the picture is not included, only one will be included,


item sold as is.


Looks ok up to this point.


Here is the orginal description for the item: "Alpine 7982 3 disc cd player/tune Alpine's pre-amp AM/FM tuner. It comes with rca outs front and rear, detachable face plate, 6 disc cd change bus-line out, illumination colours can be switched from green to red. 3 disc in dash cd player. Pass code has been reset to factory. I can tell you how to enter the code crrectly.


Description seems okay to me other than I have no idea how you know it was set to factory default when you couldn't get it installed right

This source unit has been sitting in my garage for a year since the truck was sold, but has been tested and inspected before it was put up for sale.

This is what I meant when I said you're arguing to yourself on as-is. You didn't test the product and you're stating a false information. The original seller said it works, but you neglected to indicate that "I was informed that unit is in good functional order from the person I purchased this from, however I have not tested this myself and I don't assume any responsibility for it"

The unit does work correctly. Overall physical condition is ok, The unit is 8 years old now and has been in several vehicles. Normal wear and tear is evident. This unit was $1000 brand new. I also will include 3 extra 3disc cd shuttles. I paid $79 for all three a few years ago.

Here, you're again presenting whatever you're told, you believe or assume as a statement. When you make statements, it is your responsibility to ensure your statements holds true.

This unit is used and is sold as is. It does work!

For the third time, you're clearly affirming your statement that unit is in functional order when you have no idea. I would rule this as negligence on your behalf for affirmatively stating something works when you're not sure and attempting to hold the buyer responsible if it doesn't.

Had your statements been all true, the buyer should have assumed the responsibility, but you admit that your statements are not entirely true.

reffering to eBay as EGAY is an unprofessional things to do in the world of business and does nothing but to bruise your credibility.
>>

 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0


<< Ya, I see your point, but I wasn't try to lie or anything...the reason i put in the orginal seller's description is because so people can see what the unit is 'suppose' to be like when i got it supposely.....
also because i am lazy and don't wanna retype the whole item fuction again.....
>>



A simple question: do you accept my point that there was a flaw in your auction?

Whatever rationalization you make such as you didn't mean to, you made a mistake. Even if it wasn't intentional like in your case, you're still responsible for your errors.

If it was intentional, I wouldn't call it mistake, but I'd say malicious fraud attempt.

 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76
when i said i didn't meant to lie, I am just politely saying NO I DIDN'T LIE, nor did i made any false description of the auction. its called politeness if u know the word.....

Sold-as-is=no return, no refound, buy at your own risk, because the item might work great, but might not work.

I have clearly stated I can't test the item myself
I put up the orginal seller's description as a reference so ppl can what is it suppolse to be like.
I also stated sold-as-is, because since i cant test the item, the item might not work and I will not be responsible for the orginal seller's description, it was just somthing for ur reference,
unless you have a different defination for the word sold-as-is.
It is sold as is becaise it might not work.
the bid started at 0.01 without reserve because the unit might be broken
the unit should go around $110 range atleast, but ended at $85 because ppl know it is sold as is and the item might have been defective.

I do not agree to your point. why? because the word sold-as-is=i will not be responsible for anything
the word i duno how to install it, and i don't have amp means i can't test it nor can i gurantee it will work, therefore I didn't say anything about it will work for sure, i said it might work.

"Saying "as-is" does not protect you from stating something your unsure of as a fact"
"Unsure of as a fact" no, a quote from the orginal seller's description is not a fact it is a Reference,
and i did state clearly that the item might work, and might not work......thats what the "sold-as-is" is for!
Yes, it does, because sold-as-is means-no return, no refound, buy at your own risk, because the item might work great, but might not work.

Is there a flaw in my auction? yes, the only flaw i see is i didn't bold the letter sold-as-is, and didn't write the letter, no return, refound, buy at your own risk, and a sentence clearly saying I didn't get the change to test the item! instead of saying I can't install it and no amp to use with it. But I am sure ppl can understand that "I can't figure out how to intall it, seems like it dosen't have build in amp and you need your own amp" also means I didn't test the unit and can not make sure it works.

So did i lie in any part of my item description? no, i did make it sound nicer istead of saying "it might not work" i said "sold-as-is" i did not gurantee the item will work, i did not say the item will work, nor did i say the item wouldn't work, why? because I am not sure either, that is why the item is sold as is, that is why you buy it at your own risk, that is also why i won't be responsible for it. It is like if a cup of an expensive wine if half empty, and I said it is infact half full.

ps. i offered him a full refound excluding s/h charges, still awaiting for his reply.
i still would like this thread to continue, the reason behind that is i still belive i have the right not given him a full refound.



btw. I decide offer him a full refound excluding s/h, which i also think is more then fair. if he don't want to settle it like this, then i guess i'll get a negative feedback for not giving him a full refound with s/h.
and no, i not giving him refound because of (Jerboy), cause you just pisses me off by trying to frame me of lying and fraud etc...etc....i am giving him a refound because i think the guy is dumb for not understanding the meaning of sold-as-is, and i feel bad for him. and i feel bad myself if i don't give a refound to someone like this, i belive i also would feel worse if i get a bad feedback due to a thing like this, i also would feel bad that I didn't bold 'sold-as-is' and add 'no return, refound' and thats about it.

argue argue argue...how fun~
 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76


<< Walay,

You are being more then fair offering a refund minus transaction costs. I might suggest, however, that when you do an as-is auction you use the phrase "AS-IS, NO WARRANTY, NO RETURN", and make sure it is bold and seperate from the rest of the listing.

Russ, NCNE
>>



I agree, thank you.
 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76
"reffering to eBay as EGAY is an unprofessional things to do in the world of business and does nothing but to bruise your credibility."

hmm......why? u got problem? egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egayegay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egayegay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egayegay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egayegay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay~~ egay lol!!
whoever came up with it, is actually kind clever i say~~:) -_-|||


Lets do another vote on which sound better, egay or ebay or ewalay?:p


wow! since when did i become a senior memeber....i thought i was a junior just couple days ago...didn't even notice...cool:)
 

ThisIsMatt

Banned
Aug 4, 2000
11,820
1
0
As someone who has bought and sold on ebay for 4 years & thousands of dollars worth, I can say with pretty good confidence that you are under no further obligation.

Jerboy, you are wrong. He said he wasn't sure if he was installing it right (first clue that he's not sure if it works), then he says "as-is" (second clue that it may not work). At this point the bidders should know what they're getting into. All the points you keep bringing up, jerboy, are from the original seller's auction, which Walay is just quoting. It's really irrelevant what the original guy said, it's just for reference.
 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0


<< As someone who has bought and sold on ebay for 4 years & thousands of dollars worth, I can say with pretty good confidence that you are under no further obligation.

Jerboy, you are wrong. He said he wasn't sure if he was installing it right (first clue that he's not sure if it works), then he says "as-is" (second clue that it may not work). At this point the bidders should know what they're getting into. All the points you keep bringing up, jerboy, are from the original seller's auction, which Walay is just quoting. It's really irrelevant what the original guy said, it's just for reference.
>>



He failed to mention he was just quoting what he was told. The flaw I see is being told it works and just repeating after him and saying "it works".
 

ThisIsMatt

Banned
Aug 4, 2000
11,820
1
0


<<

<< As someone who has bought and sold on ebay for 4 years & thousands of dollars worth, I can say with pretty good confidence that you are under no further obligation.

Jerboy, you are wrong. He said he wasn't sure if he was installing it right (first clue that he's not sure if it works), then he says "as-is" (second clue that it may not work). At this point the bidders should know what they're getting into. All the points you keep bringing up, jerboy, are from the original seller's auction, which Walay is just quoting. It's really irrelevant what the original guy said, it's just for reference.
>>



He failed to mention he was just quoting what he was told. The flaw I see is being told it works and just repeating after him and saying "it works".
>>

Here, let me show you.

<< I bought this headunit from ebay a week ago, but I can't figure out how to intall it, seems like it dosen't have build in amp and you need your own amp. I will be taking paypal, and money orders only, s/h with insurance is $12.50, the 3 extra 3disc cd shuttles in the picture is not included, only one will be included, item sold as is. Here is the orginal description for the item: "Alpine 7982 3 disc cd player/tune Alpine's pre-amp AM/FM tuner. It comes with rca outs front and rear, detachable face plate, 6 disc cd change bus-line out, illumination colours can be switched from green to red. 3 disc in dash cd player. Pass code has been reset to factory. I can tell you how to enter the code crrectly. This source unit has been sitting in my garage for a year since the truck was sold, but has been tested and inspected before it was put up for sale. The unit does work correctly. Overall physical condition is ok, The unit is 8 years old now and has been in several vehicles. Normal wear and tear is evident. This unit was $1000 brand new. I also will include 3 extra 3disc cd shuttles. I paid $79 for all three a few years ago. Please bid only if you intend on buying. Please know what you are bidding on. This unit is used and is sold as is. It does work! Buyer will pay fixed shippingand handling with insurance of $12.50. I will accept pay pal, and money orders... ONLY!! Pay me securely with any major credit card through PayPal! Thanks" >>

If that's not obvious, I don't know what is. Oh, and his use of egay is because AT used to ban the word ebay.

egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay :)
 

Walay

Senior member
Apr 25, 2001
705
0
76
i didn't need to say it was a quote because "...." <---this is a quote

"<--- you quote with this

"egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay egay :)"

lol~~~lol~~~~~~!!