Am I going to regret this?

[BurnItDwn]

EDIT: The original post is not really important any more. I've Learned a lot of the answers, and I've just opted to dual boot instead. Thanks for everyone's helpful replies!











I'm an experienced Linux user. I've been running Linux at home on at least one box since the late 90s. I have very little experience with X windows, but I know enough to play with it pretty comfortably.


Anyhow,

I'm thinking of running the latest Ubuntu stable (I am usually a slackware guy, but I've been wanting to try Ubuntu for a while)
I plan on running Newsbin Pro in Wine
I plan on switching from winamp to xmms
I'm considering installing a mythtv Frontend on that PC (I have a backend downstairs hooked up to my big tv, this PC has a 24inch LCD, so it would be decent to watch recorded media on as well.)
I'm planning on using Cedega for games (though gaming isn't as high of a priority for me as it once was)
I don't really encode much, but I know how to use ffmpeg if i need to.

I sort of want to run Reiser4 as my File System on most of my partitions, but I know it's generally not included with any distros yet, and I'm wondering if it's still premature

I'm not sure what DVD/CD burning software I'll install, but I'm sure I'll find something

I'd like to then install Xen and (with Ubuntu as the host) and then maybe play around with NetBSD and/or FreeBSD as client virtual machines (note: I have a socket 939 machine, so there is no Pacifica/VT support, so BSD would be strictly CLI and just for screwing around with)

I'll use Firefox as my browser


I've read that ATI driver support is not so good in Linux.
I have an ATI x1800xt video card.
I do not want to spend money to replace the video card, as my wallet appears to have shrunk, and I need to cut my spending a bit, at least for a while.

Does anyone here run Linux and use Cedega with an X1800 or X1900 series Video card?
If you do, do you notice a lot of problems? (Yea, I realize that would probably be a VERY small crowd here at AT)


I have several reasons for wanting to do this switch. In part it's that I've grown tired of the way Windows works. Sure the ease of use is nice, but to me, ease of use is MUCH less important than having more control over the system. Also, I don't like how problems/errors are logged, and sometimes, not logged. Also, I haven't ever figured out a way to run things with debugs turned on in order to diagnose those "weird" problems that people sometimes have after cleaning up malware or the like.

I agree that if you keep your system clean, and if you don't do anything stupid, Windows will be a stable and secure (enough) system. But if someone does do something stupid (for instance, if my brother touches my PC and infects it with several hundred worms and Trojans), Then often the ultimate solution involves reinstalling the entire operating system and reconfiguring all of the software.

I do not like solutions that involve reinstalling operating systems and reconfiguring all of my apps. Thus, I've decided to take the leap.

I would actually still would have 1 windows box at home, just in case, but it's a PC that's in my spare bedroom and it doesn't get too much use. It's pretty much my backup system.



Anyhow, am I going to waste a ton of time installing and configuring everything, only do find myself regretting it and wishing I had just reinstalled Windows, or has anyone else here successfully made the switch and not regretted it?

My biggest 3 concerns with this are,
1.) Newsbin Pro
2.) Games
3.) Finding a media player that can play vobsub subtitles on Linux






EDIT:
I decided to dual boot rather then remove windows due to my dependence on it for gaming.

I installed Ubuntu 6.10 Amd64 ...
I was very disappointed with it.
The installer is WAY too automated, It decided to make a lot of decisions for me, that I would prefer to have made on my own. The whole "use sudo instead of the root login" thing is a novel idea from a security standpoint, but I found myself giving root a password and then just blocking off network logins.

As far as gaming in Linux period.
I really really found myself disappointed with ATI's Linux drivers, (I tried the proprietery drivers in order to have OpenGL acceleration, and they were not so good.)

So, I'm still mostly running windows on that box, I got rid of Ubuntu and I'm going to try out either Arch or Debian next. Arch seems to be more my style, (it claims to be a lot like Slackware, key differences being a better package system that can actually resolve dependencies & much newer (and potentially less stable) releases of software.

This has been my first serious attempt at running Linux on my main desktop PC as my primary OS. I have run it on my server for a long time (a long long long time ago Redhat, then Mandrake, but several years ago I switched to Slackware, and I've run it as a desktop OS on my laptop for quite a while too (I use a SLAX live CD on it currently due to it having a failed hard drive)

If I find myself wishing I had slack instead of Arch and/or Debian .. then I think I'll stick Slack on there just to appease myself, and then also install OpenBSD on there and play with it for a while.

 

[gorcorps]

Dual boot if anything... your gaming possibilities will be severely limited and you'll like to have windows for the multitude of games you can't play in linux.

 

[TheVrolok]

There are two reasons I haven't switched to Linux permanently. 1) Linux Gaming. cedega users swear by it but the bottom line it still doesn't support games as well as Windows and there are still not enough games that have native support. 2) USB Printing. Still not GREAT, and I happen to have a bunch of Lexmark printers, none of which have any linux support whasoever (third party or otherwise).

 

[PorscheMaD911]

Here's the kind of relevant story of my OS progression of my current PC for your info.

When I first built my pc, I ordered a copy of Windows XP Home with it. My friend (who was getting me wholesale prices) said "Nah, don't worry about it, I've got a copy left over from another build that someone didn't need, you can have it for free." Well, it turned out that was a burnt copy with a dodgy serial.

So I used it for a year or so, but then my conscience started to prick me. I didn't want to pay for XP at the time, so I decided to switch to Linux. Over the next year I relearned a new OS from scratch, formatted my PC hundreds of times and tried a huge number of distros. I decided that, since I couldn't really game, I would give away my Logitech FF wheel, Geforce 6800, extra RAM and SB Live. I lost countless nights of sleep configuring various different installs of various different versions of various different distros.

Then I gave my PC to my friend completely for a couple of months because hers wasn't working. Life was great, I was getting lots of sleep and reading and going for walks again.

But I started to miss all the millions of little practical uses one has for a PC, email, budget, web browsing, Bible study, movie times etc. And racing games. Of course purchasing a Toyota MR2 eased that a little, but I *love* racing games.

So I fixed my friend's broken PC and she returned mine. I am working lots of hours at work, and don't have the time or inclination to play with Linux again. It was a great learning experience, and I got pretty much everything I wanted working, but it made me oh so very tired!

So I picked up XP at a computer fair last week, and it's great. For me, it 'just works'. A Logitech G25 wheel's on the way, which I am so looking forward to!

Unfortunately it can't really handle many games any more, so I now have to buy (again) a nice VC (AGP X1950 Pro) and SC (X-Fi Gamer) and some more RAM (1 Gb DDR-400). *Sigh* I really don't think before I do some things!

Anyway, I'm someone who tried Linux for a long time, took a lot of effort to learn how it works, and then switched back. I don't intend to try Linux in the foreseeable future, XP's here to stay. I run SP2, AVG AV + Spyware, and everything I want to do works beautifully.

 

[Robor]

How well does Newsbin Pro work under Ubuntu with WINE? I love Newsbin in Windows and I tried Pan with Ubuntu but was not impressed.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: Robor
How well does Newsbin Pro work under Ubuntu with WINE? I love Newsbin in Windows and I tried Pan with Ubuntu but was not impressed.

Wine was giving me some issues in Ubuntu (probably because I was using the AMD64 distribution.)

I've read about the MOTD giving people problems, but I've also read on several forums that Newsbin does in fact work overall decently in Wine.


That being said, I've updated my thread, and I've dumped Ubuntu.
I've decided to keep Windows (for now at least) and play around with various distros and just multi-boot with lilo.

Arch, Debian, and OpenBSD are on my list of things to try.

 

[Robor]

Thanks for the info and update. Maybe I'll give Newsbin a try under WINE. I currently have to dual boot my home box because I have been unable to find a single Linux chat program that has both voice and webcam capabilities (like Skype does in Windows).

As far as gaming, I don't think Linux is ever going to come close to Windows. I'm not positive but are there any native Linux games that don't run better in Windows? And using WINE or Cedega just isn't an option to me. I mean, games are stressful enough on a system in native Windows. To expect WINE or Cedega to keep up is just unrealistic to me.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: Robor
Thanks for the info and update. Maybe I'll give Newsbin a try under WINE. I currently have to dual boot my home box because I have been unable to find a single Linux chat program that has both voice and webcam capabilities (like Skype does in Windows).

As far as gaming, I don't think Linux is ever going to come close to Windows. I'm not positive but are there any native Linux games that don't run better in Windows? And using WINE or Cedega just isn't an option to me. I mean, games are stressful enough on a system in native Windows. To expect WINE or Cedega to keep up is just unrealistic to me.

I *think* most of ID's games get comparable performance in Linux as they do in Windows, but I can not back that up with factual data. That is really the only mainstream company I can think of though.

Some things however, will work just fine in Wine as they don't take much hardware to run. Starcraft and Total Annihilation come to mind ...


Personally, I don't like dual booting, but I don't want to add another box to my main desk, and I don't want to run *nix VM's under Windows, and currently, Window's VM's under Linux are worse than Wine for gaming support. Hopefully Xen or perhaps another virtual machine monitor will have some way of running a Linux or BSD kernel on the Host OS, and then use Intel's "VT" or AMD's "AMD-V" virtualization technology to run WinXP as a client machine with access to all the necessary hardware. It would be awesome to get the best of both worlds with one PC. My current setup is that I have my Slackware 11 box (old celeron with 384mb of ram, 2.4 kernel) running blackbox on X, with just a few Aterm's up, and then dual monitors on the XP box ... With both boxes sharing a Keyboard and mouse through Synergy.


As far as video chat, I'm not sure about anything like that running on Linux.
I know my Ventrilo server runs on my Slackware box, and I know I've also run a Teamspeak server in the past (again on my Slackware box.)

I am pretty sure there is an Official Teamspeak client for Linux and an unofficial but workable Ventrilo client for Linux. I imagine you could just stream the video through Apache (forgive me if I'm wrong here, as I have never messed with webcams), but you'd likely be stuck using 2 separate apps to do the videoconferencing over Linux.

 

[Nothinman]

I plan on switching from winamp to xmms

Xmms is old, don't do that. I'm not sure what Ubuntu includes by default but if you want something like simple like Winamp look at BMP (Beep Media Player).

I sort of want to run Reiser4 as my File System on most of my partitions, but I know it's generally not included with any distros yet, and I'm wondering if it's still premature

Don't do that, reiser3 isn't terribly reliable and Reiser4 is still in the early stages. You won't get any real benefits from using it anyway, stick with ext3 or if you really want something else try XFS or JFS.

I'd like to then install Xen and (with Ubuntu as the host) and then maybe play around with NetBSD and/or FreeBSD as client virtual machines (note: I have a socket 939 machine, so there is no Pacifica/VT support, so BSD would be strictly CLI and just for screwing around with)

Be aware that the last time I tried it (last night) the nvidia driver and Xen on AMD64 don't play well together, just loading the module causes a panic. It worked fine for me on i386 and I've seen people on nvnews.net get it working in AMD64 so it's possible but it'll probably be a bit of work. Who knows if the ATI drivers are any better, but I would doubt it.

I'll use Firefox as my browser

I would really suggest looking at Galeon or Ephiphany, they're slightly lighter weight and integrate better with Gnome. But if you need some FF extensions that Galeon/Ephiphany don't already have functionality for you're out of luck.

The installer is WAY too automated, It decided to make a lot of decisions for me, that I would prefer to have made on my own. The whole "use sudo instead of the root login" thing is a novel idea from a security standpoint, but I found myself giving root a password and then just blocking off network logins.

The whole point of Ubuntu is the automated installation and it's default settings. If you want to customize it you're supposed to use the Alternate Install CD.

So, I'm still mostly running windows on that box, I got rid of Ubuntu and I'm going to try out either Arch or Debian next.

If you go with Debian (and I'd recommend that you do) you'll probably want to upgrade to unstable pretty quickly, once you're using unstable you'll get all new packages as soon as they hit the mirrors. The good thing is that everything is constantly updated and there's no need to upgrade from release to release, but bad thing is that occasionally there will be bugs that you'll hit so make sure you install apt-listbugs and make sure none of the open ones affect you before upgrading.

Hopefully Xen or perhaps another virtual machine monitor will have some way of running a Linux or BSD kernel on the Host OS, and then use Intel's "VT" or AMD's "AMD-V" virtualization technology to run WinXP as a client machine with access to all the necessary hardware.

The hardware VT support won't help that at all, all it does is transfer some of the work that Xen does in software to hardware. Things like emory, ring, register, etc management. Supposedly Parallels is going to have guest 3D accelleration support in their next major release, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too high about that just yet.

Wine was giving me some issues in Ubuntu (probably because I was using the AMD64 distribution.)

Yea, WINE on AMD64 doesn't seem like a particularly good idea although I have seen people get it working. Personally, I just have a 32-bit chroot setup for WINE and FF+flash, luckily I rarely need them.

I *think* most of ID's games get comparable performance in Linux as they do in Windows, but I can not back that up with factual data. That is really the only mainstream company I can think of though.

You'd be right, performance is definitely comparable. And ironically id is the company that all other game developers look to for guidance as to what's going to be the next big thing but they all ignore the fact that id ports all of their games to Linux and OS X.

Some things however, will work just fine in Wine as they don't take much hardware to run. Starcraft and Total Annihilation come to mind ...

How much hardware the game wants is only a small part of the equation, there are some games that don't work because they're just so poorly written. But I can vouch for TA playing fine.

I am working lots of hours at work, and don't have the time or inclination to play with Linux again. It was a great learning experience, and I got pretty much everything I wanted working, but it made me oh so very tired!

But the difference is that once you get over that hump the experience is the complete opposite. Linux 'just works' for 99% of what I need to do and whenver I'm forced to use Windows for anything I get extremely frustrated and usually give up and just go back to Linux.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
I *think* most of ID's games get comparable performance in Linux as they do in Windows, but I can not back that up with factual data. That is really the only mainstream company I can think of though.

Some things however, will work just fine in Wine as they don't take much hardware to run. Starcraft and Total Annihilation come to mind ...

Personally, I don't like dual booting, but I don't want to add another box to my main desk, and I don't want to run *nix VM's under Windows, and currently, Window's VM's under Linux are worse than Wine for gaming support. Hopefully Xen or perhaps another virtual machine monitor will have some way of running a Linux or BSD kernel on the Host OS, and then use Intel's "VT" or AMD's "AMD-V" virtualization technology to run WinXP as a client machine with access to all the necessary hardware. It would be awesome to get the best of both worlds with one PC. My current setup is that I have my Slackware 11 box (old celeron with 384mb of ram, 2.4 kernel) running blackbox on X, with just a few Aterm's up, and then dual monitors on the XP box ... With both boxes sharing a Keyboard and mouse through Synergy.


As far as video chat, I'm not sure about anything like that running on Linux.
I know my Ventrilo server runs on my Slackware box, and I know I've also run a Teamspeak server in the past (again on my Slackware box.)

I am pretty sure there is an Official Teamspeak client for Linux and an unofficial but workable Ventrilo client for Linux. I imagine you could just stream the video through Apache (forgive me if I'm wrong here, as I have never messed with webcams), but you'd likely be stuck using 2 separate apps to do the videoconferencing over Linux.

I've never tried a single game in Linux. You say Total Annihilation works with WINE? I *love* TA. I can't tell you how many hours I spent in that game back in the day. I've played a few times with friends recently. It's funny watching TA load in literally seconds for what used to take quite a while.

I would love to be able to run Linux as my main OS and WinXP in some sort of VM just for the few apps that only work in Windows (Skype voice/video chat for example). I have tried using Skype that way and the webcam does not work. Didn't get as far as trying voice. Hopefully Skype will get the Linux client up to having cam support soon.