Question Am I Getting Poor Performance With My Upgrade (2700k to 9600k)?

[sketterman]

Hello All,


As the title suggests, I'm hoping for some insight on what I'm assuming is lackluster performance with a recent hardware upgrade.

-My old system was a Sandy Bridge 2600k / ASUS P8Z68-V / 16GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 / GTX 1080

-Current build is Coffee Lake 9600k / Gigabyte AORUS Z390 PRO / 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 / GTX 1080

So I upgraded my CPU, MOBO, and RAM. I started testing performance results using Unigine's benchmarks (Heaven and Superposition).

With Heaven, at stock settings, my old system got a score of 2755, while my new system only netted 2362. Old system scored ~ 400 points better despite being lesser hardware.

The real kicker is when I OC. My old system (4.4GHz OC was all I could get stable), saw a score of 3938, an increase of 1183 points. New system, OC @ 5.0 GHz, barely increased to 2368, an increase of just SIX points.

With Superposition, I never benched my old system with it. New system score @ stock speed (1080p Medium setting) was 15453, and OC was 15507

All other hardware components are the same. Same case, same PSU. Actually, I'm pretty sure I upgraded to a Samsung 970 PRO SSD for the new system, which the old did not have. I don't think that has any effect though.

For OC settings, I utilized a video I found on this website...dont have the URL though. The only issue is that the video used an older BIOS version than I have (I've got F11), so I wasnt able to find all the settings. The ones I did find:

-CPU Clock Ratio: changed to 50
-CPU VCore: changed to 1.275 (this resulted in failed benchmark with superposition, so I up'ed it to 1.3)
-CPU VCore loadline Calibration: Changed to Turbo
-XMP: Enabled.
-I also disabled all "C" states (My BIOS version has a single setting for all of them: Auto, Enabled, Disabled)

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks,

Shaun

 

[ehume]

i7 2600k was top of the line; i7 9600k was not. Anyone wish to comment on comparative binning?

 

[Mopetar]

Do you have any other benchmarks because these results are odd to say the least. The results you have makes me want to say it's an issue with the GPU because you should see pretty significant gains going from a 2600K to a 9600K. Even though the clock speed bump might not seem too significant, there's a lot of generations worth of IPC improvements all along the way.

i7 2600k was top of the line; i7 9600k was not. Anyone wish to comment on comparative binning?

That shouldn't matter and these results are bizarre. It's not a perfect comparison, but the AT bench tool actually goes back far enough to make a reasonable comparison. It doesn't have the exact chip he has now, but you can compare a 2600K with a 7700K or 8700K to get a rough idea. The comparison for gaming is actually done with a GTX 1080 so the OP should be able to see if his results are similar if he has any of those titles or graphics benchmarks.

 

[UsandThem]

That shouldn't matter and these results are bizarre. It's not a perfect comparison, but the AT bench tool actually goes back far enough to make a reasonable comparison. It doesn't have the exact chip he has now, but you can compare a 2600K with a 7700K or 8700K to get a rough idea. The comparison for gaming is actually done with a GTX 1080 so the OP should be able to see if his results are similar if he has any of those titles or graphics benchmarks.

They have the 9600K in their bench comparison, so they can directly compare the 2600K to the 9600K: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2413?vs=2250

OP, did you do a clean install of Windows 10 when you upgraded?

 

[Mopetar]

They have the 9600K in their bench comparison, so they can directly compare the 2600K to the 9600K: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2413?vs=2250

OP, did you do a clean install of Windows 10 when you upgraded?

I have no idea how I missed that, so thanks for pointing it out. The main point still stands though because the 9600K should blow the 2600K out of the water unless it's GPU bound but the the 9600K shouldn't lose.

 

[UsandThem]

I have no idea how I missed that, so thanks for pointing it out. The main point still stands though because the 9600K should blow the 2600K out of the water unless it's GPU bound but the the 9600K shouldn't lose.

Yeah, they did something wrong. Even Gamersnexus did a retest of the 2600k, and the 9600k should be a very noticeable upgrade: https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...k-revisit-2018-benchmarks-vs-9900k-ryzen-more

My guess would be they just swapped the hardware and didn't do a clean Windows 10 install. Either that, or they are using an unsupported OS for Coffee Lake like Windows 7.

 

[waltchan]

OP, your change of CPU performance is going to be in the memory RAMs themselves, due to dramatic increase of CAS # going from DDR3 to DDR4, not the processor itself.

The only way to fix this is if you switch to Kaby Lake processor with Z170 motherboard that supports DDR3 RAM only, with fastest DDR3 2400 and CAS 10. This pick is my top #1 choice so far, not any of the new Coffee Lake processors.

In my experience with DDR4 RAMs so far, they are pitiful slow with 2400/2666 and CAS 16 timing. Sandy Bridge CPUs were able to get slightly better performance than Coffee Lake because DDR3 RAMs were 1333 with (much faster) CAS 7 timing.

For OEM PCs, I secretly found out that DDR3 1333 with CAS 9 is the absolute best performance they could put out in history. Today, they usually use DDR4 2400 with CAS 17 (ouch...). New OEM PCs are slower than 7 years ago.

Talk about going backwards in technology. That's why I'm stocking up on refurbished Dell 660s desktop PCs that are going for pocket change price these days.

Also, Intel processors are famously known for poor resale value. They do nothing but depreciate in value. Now, Intel Haswell's i7-4790 worth less than AMD FX-8370.

 

[chrisjames61]

Also, Intel processors are famously known for poor resale value. They do nothing but depreciate in value. Now, Intel Haswell's i7-4790 worth less than AMD FX-8370.

Everything depreciates in value over time besides real estate. Especially electronics. Cpu's are no different. Intel cpu's have historically held their value really well especially compared to AMD cpu's of recent vintage. Ryzen not included. Intel cpu's of recent vintage prices have taken a hit because of the low cost of Ryzen cpu's that decimate them.

 

[Arkaign]

OP, your change of CPU performance is going to be in the memory RAMs themselves, due to dramatic increase of CAS # going from DDR3 to DDR4, not the processor itself.

The only way to fix this is if you switch to Kaby Lake processor with Z170 motherboard that supports DDR3 RAM only, with fastest DDR3 2400 and CAS 10. This pick is my top #1 choice so far, not any of the new Coffee Lake processors.

In my experience with DDR4 RAMs so far, they are pitiful slow with 2400/2666 and CAS 16 timing. Sandy Bridge CPUs were able to get slightly better performance than Coffee Lake because DDR3 RAMs were 1333 with (much faster) CAS 7 timing.

For OEM PCs, I secretly found out that DDR3 1333 with CAS 9 is the absolute best performance they could put out in history. Today, they usually use DDR4 2400 with CAS 17 (ouch...). New OEM PCs are slower than 7 years ago.

Talk about going backwards in technology. That's why I'm stocking up on refurbished Dell 660s desktop PCs that are going for pocket change price these days.

Also, Intel processors are famously known for poor resale value. They do nothing but depreciate in value. Now, Intel Haswell's i7-4790 worth less than AMD FX-8370.

In all my years on AnandTech, I've seldom if ever seen so much bad information in a single post.

First, DDR4 2666 CL16 or so is virtually equal in latency to DDR3 1333 CL7-8, but with a tremendous amount of added bandwidth. In NO cases is a Sandy Bridge faster than the succeeding gens, unless you compare heavily OC systems to stock systems, or something is broken on the new setup. It IS true that IPC gains have been painfully small gen to gen, but collectively they're very noticable. Kaby especially is much worse than Coffee Lake when comparing i5 and i7 K series. The added cores and cache, combined with improved 14nm process equals healthy performance increases across the board even when using pedestrian DDR4 2400 or 2666.

As for the prices of old Intel CPUs, come on man, that's a joke. Not only do older Intel i7 hold very high values, but your own example is hilariously terrible.

Current SOLD 4790K are in the ~$175-$195 range.

Current SOLD FX 8370 are in the ~$60-$120 range.

It's not difficult to find this info. 'top of rhe socket' CPUs hold their value for ages, well beyond what makes logical sense compared to new options. But some are willing to pay extra for the best option available for their existing platforms.

 

[waltchan]

Everything depreciates in value over time besides real estate. Especially electronics. Cpu's are no different. Intel cpu's have historically held their value really well especially compared to AMD cpu's of recent vintage. Ryzen not included. Intel cpu's of recent vintage prices have taken a hit because of the low cost of Ryzen cpu's that decimate them.

If comparing dual-core from same era, a Pentium G2020 worth less than AMD's slower A4-6300. After about 10 years, Intel Core 2 Duo worth less than AMD Ahtlon X2 by 1.5 to 1 ratio.

 

[waltchan]

In all my years on AnandTech, I've seldom if ever seen so much bad information in a single post.

First, DDR4 2666 CL16 or so is virtually equal in latency to DDR3 1333 CL7-8, but with a tremendous amount of added bandwidth. In NO cases is a Sandy Bridge faster than the succeeding gens, unless you compare heavily OC systems to stock systems, or something is broken on the new setup. It IS true that IPC gains have been painfully small gen to gen, but collectively they're very noticable. Kaby especially is much worse than Coffee Lake when comparing i5 and i7 K series. The added cores and cache, combined with improved 14nm process equals healthy performance increases across the board even when using pedestrian DDR4 2400 or 2666.

As for the prices of old Intel CPUs, come on man, that's a joke. Not only do older Intel i7 hold very high values, but your own example is hilariously terrible.

Current SOLD 4790K are in the ~$175-$195 range.

Current SOLD FX 8370 are in the ~$60-$120 range.

Thank you for providing this info. It seems there are not many Intel processors that support DDR4 2666 CAS 16 at this moment. I'm using Skylake and Kaby Lake that only reads DDR4 2400 max, but they end up slower than Sandy Bridge DDR3 1333 CAS 8. I pretty much give up and surrender, and I'm now buying Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge again because I don't trust new techs anymore and their steep depreciation cos involved. There's not much to gain on performance now with Coffee Lake.

I didn't write 4790K at all. Certainly, it still has a premium. I clearly wrote 4790 locked processor only. It worth less than FX-8370 now. Poor resale value on Intel processors after about 6-7 years. The first 6 years were okay.

 

[UsandThem]

If comparing dual-core from same era, a Pentium G2020 worth less than AMD's slower A4-6300. After about 10 years, Intel Core 2 Duo worth less than AMD Ahtlon X2 by 1.5 to 1 ratio.

Maybe because there a lot more of them for sale?

I have to agree with Arkaign on this one. Intel CPUs hold their price for longer periods than AMD CPUs.

 

[waltchan]

Maybe because there a lot more of them for sale?

I have to agree with Arkaign on this one. Intel CPUs hold their price for longer periods than AMD CPUs.

I'm currently shopping for a used i5-2500S for about $12 shipped. An AMD processor is nowhere close the price, including ancient FX-6100.

 

[UsandThem]

I'm currently shopping for a used i5-2500S for about $12 shipped. An AMD processor is nowhere close the price, including ancient FX-6100.

Intel sells a lot more CPUs than AMD, and have historically done so. So there are a lot more of them for sale from people upgrading / businesses replacing their machines.

I pretty much give up and surrender, and I'm now buying Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge again because I don't trust new techs anymore and their steep depreciation cos involved. There's not much to gain on performance now with Coffee Lake.

I gotta say, some of your viewpoints here are a little, let's say.......different. Not much to gain from Sandy Bridge to Coffee Lake?

 

[Furious_Styles]

OP you need to check and see that everything is working correctly. The CPU is boosting to proper speeds, GPU is fully utilized. It's possible you need a driver re-install of some kind. I'm surprised the score changes much, typically those benches are very GPU dependent and CPU has very little effect on them. I suppose they could if you ran them on low settings/res.

 

[waltchan]

I gotta say, some of your viewpoints here are a little, let's say.......different. Not much to gain from Sandy Bridge to Coffee Lake?

And price to performance ratio matters too....

I mistakenly bought a Lenovo i5-9400 desktop for $700, but decided to return it after learning a used a Sandy Bridge PC can be upgraded to i7 with faster DDR3 RAM CAS timing than DDR4, plus SSD and everything, for less than $100 total. Best decision I've made in my life. Very close call...

 

[Furious_Styles]

Intel sells a lot more CPUs than AMD, and have historically done so. So there are a lot more of them for sale from people upgrading / businesses replacing their machines.

I gotta say, some of your viewpoints here are a little, let's say.......different. Not much to gain from Sandy Bridge to Coffee Lake?

I feel like in a reply or two hes going to re-write history and tell us that, in fact, bulldozer were great CPUs and that all the people who bought Intel CPUs back then were fools.

 

[waltchan]

I feel like in a reply or two hes going to re-write history and tell us that, in fact, bulldozer were great CPUs and that all the people who bought Intel CPUs back then were fools.

I'm not a Bulldozer fan at all. All good...

 

[UsandThem]

And price to performance ratio matters too....

I mistakenly bought a Lenovo i5-9400 desktop for $700, but decided to return it after learning a used a Sandy Bridge PC can be upgraded all to less than $80 total. Best decision I've made in my life. Close call...

Congrats?

I gotta say, it sure seems like you are derailing this person's thread beginning with your first post here. The person didn't ask about buying old PC computers, DDR3 memory, or the value of Haswell CPUs compared to AMD FX processors. He asked why the benchmarks on his new PC are so low.

 

[waltchan]

Congrats?

I gotta say, it sure seems like you are derailing this person's thread beginning with your first post here. The person didn't ask about buying old PC computers, DDR3 memory, or the value of Haswell CPUs compared to AMD FX processors. He asked why the benchmarks on his new PC are so low.

You're right... I thought it could be the CAS timing difference going from faster DDR3 to slower DDR4, one of the possibilities I experienced before several times, and that's why I posted here.

 

[UsandThem]

You're right... I thought it could be the CAS timing difference going from faster DDR3 to slower DDR4, one of the concerns.

I can assure you that's not the reason.

 

[Arkaign]

Thank you for providing this info. It seems there are not many Intel processors that support DDR4 2666 CAS 16 at this moment. I'm using Skylake and Kaby Lake that only reads DDR4 2400 max, but they end up slower than Sandy Bridge DDR3 1333 CAS 8. I pretty much give up and surrender, and I'm now buying Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge again because I don't trust new techs anymore and their steep depreciation cos involved. There's not much to gain on performance now with Coffee Lake.

I didn't write 4790K at all. Certainly, it still has a premium. I clearly wrote 4790 locked processor only. It worth less than FX-8370 now. Poor resale value on Intel processors after about 6-7 years. The first 6 years were okay.

First off, 8370 and 4790 (non K) both sell through at nearly identical prices, with a few outliers here and there. But it's a bit apples and oranges to try to compare those ones exactly.

4790 was a locked CPU from the first half of 2014, primarily for OEMs, as the price difference made 4790K hugely more desirable for a few dollars more. This is seen with the ~50% higher resale value.

The 8370 was released in 2H 2014, and was the absolute flagship UNLOCKED CPU for the socket at the time. Apples to apples, you'd compare 8370 to 4790K, as you would be buying either one of those over lesser options at that price point.

None of this points to poor resale value for either. As 8370 and 4790 non K both sell for similar numbers, it's not especially different between the two. 4790K selling for an extra 50% is notable.

Where resale value is poor is in low/mid tier stack products. Those are worth far less, because people are trying to upgrade older units to get away from them, and into something that will extend the life of their systems. So Athlon II x4, Core i3, Core i5, low end Phenom and FX SKUs, etc, those get dumped for a lot less $.

Flagship SKUs per socket hold up extremely well. Even going back to exotic P4 EE, max model Socket 940, etc. It's not brand. It's tier.

 

[Arkaign]

Apologies to the OP.

Recommend :

Grab any spare drive you can, and download the latest W10 install USB. Let us know if you need help making one.

Clear the bios to optimized defaults, enable XMP, and install a fresh copy of windows to your test drive. Even a spare 80GB, 160GB, whatever HDD is fine for this. Test your benchmarks again.

Alternatively you can download a live install of Ubuntu for your USB drive or burn a DVD of it. Download and run benchmarks on there. Up to you.

 

[waltchan]

Where resale value is poor is in low/mid tier stack products. Those are worth far less, because people are trying to upgrade older units to get away from them, and into something that will extend the life of their systems. So Athlon II x4, Core i3, Core i5, low end Phenom and FX SKUs, etc, those get dumped for a lot less $.

That's what I'm looking for daily. Sure, I'm in the minority, but I like it this way. It makes shopping so much FUN, find every PC parts at lowest price, but offer the highest performance speed to the best of my ability. And finding the right manufactured dates too.

I plan to have a main i7-2600K rig soon, but not until after year 2022 when the CPU depreciates further to $10 or less. Still waiting... For now, I'm using i3-2130, now valued at $8 shipped on eBay, and worth less than FX-4100. Life's good...(it's just me).