final update
I decided to send my initially drafted message. After thinking about it more and getting input from you guys, I decided the mortgage guy does suck (actually I knew that in the back of my mind already) and that even getting a refi may not be a good idea unless I decide to sell in 7 years (which I'm not sure about, I may keep it as a rental property). I never really did take in consideration that rates might get really really high in 7 years so a HEL might end up with a higher rate than I have right now.
Thank you everyone for their input
Sorry about the length... I thought cliff notes might be biased.
I am getting a refinance from a 15 yr at 5.75% to a 7/1 ARM at 4.85%, but I was originally promised 4.65% on the estimate. I'm pretty upset about his service because he forgets things, has a short attention span (see his response), and doesn't call me back when he says so. It'll take me 4 years to make back the closing cost according to my spreadsheet and how I plan to pay it, but I'll be under less pressure since my required payment will be about 300 less. I kinda want to do the refi anyway since I do want to reduce my required monthly payment, but I'm still a bit pissed off at the guy. What do you guys think?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Cxxxxx,
I was planning on calling you today, but I had my
wisdom teeth pulled so I?m not really able to speak.
I was thinking about my refinance experience so far
with you yesterday and became very upset. You seem
very professional with me over the phone, however,
there are a number of things that I felt I was ?taken
for a ride? on.
1. The one day I wanted to lock at 4.65% or lower.
You had told me that it was at 4.65%, but you would
see if you could get a lower rate. You told me that
you would call me back before 5:30PM. I waited till
6:00PM and did not receive a call. When I called you
back the next day (you didn?t call me), you told me
the rates went up.
2. When I filled out the application, I had told you
that I didn?t have a second mortgage, but had a HELOC
on the account. You told me that I should close it
and recommended that I open it with you guys
(otherwise we would have to wait for the
subordination). Since the cost was too high to close
the HELOC I decided not to close it, so you told me
that I would probably have to go with a 60 day lock.
I was OK with that. However, one week later (last
week) you told me we were ready to close and HAD to
close on Thursday (yesterday). After a barrage of
forms (which I didn?t have to fill out for my first
mortgage btw) and missing my lunch get another form
filled out I had everything that you requested filled
ASAP for you. On Wednesday you told we couldn?t close
because of the HELOC (you should have known about the
HELOC, it was on the app and we talked about it? 60
day lock remember?).
3. I had requested to get a copy of the closing docs
before closing. Even if we had closed on Thursday,
you wouldn?t have gotten the closing docs to me before
closing.
4. Rates? on your web site you list the 7/1 ARM as
4.25% and you claim that you can?t even get me less
than 4.85%. Two things? when we initially talked, the
bankrate rate (PCS mortgage listing) was at 4.5 and
your website rate was at 4.5 you gave me a GFE at
4.65. Currently, the bankrate average is 4.5% - it
was even less yesterday. I?ve called a few mortgage
companies today just to be sure (with my loan amount
of 90,000) and have always gotten quotes between 4.5
and 4.65.
So? Because of all the problems I?ve had, I had
actually wanted to cancel my refinance. However,
since you have spent some time working on this, I will
be willing to work with you and close this mortgage
only with the following conditions.
1. I get a rate of 4.65% or below and you will still
honor the same fees (no add?l) on the GFE
2. I receive the closing docs 2 days before closing.
If you can't accomodate me on this, you can cancel my
application. I think I have been overly patient.
It?s just been very upsetting when I think of all this
I?ve been through, I may decide to not even get a refi
at all anymore. Well, let me know what you decide.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
His answer to my ultimatum in which he misunderstood my entire email. I don't think I was unclear, but maybe y'all could confirm
R********,
Let me say that I apologize if your experience with me so far has not been
what you expected. I've tried extremely hard to close your loan in a timely
manner with the information that's been provided to me. Please remember that
we have to adhere to all of the lender's rules and guidelines. Let me answer
the questions you have for me;
1. What I have is that you saw an interest rate of 4.5% and said that you
wanted that rate, but I explained to you that the banks have tiers for loan
amounts and that the loan amount of $92,000 would put you an .125% higher
than what we were offering. I said that the rates "may" go down the next day
but that I don't have a crystal ball, and that the decision is entirely
yours. You said that you wanted to see what the market was going to do the
next day(to see if they would go lower) as you had done several weeks prior.
Unfortunately the rates went up.
2. You never disclosed to me that you had an outstanding line of credit
which could be considered fraudulent if your refinance had gone through.
Lines of credit affect your debt to income ratios in addition to affecting
the lien placement of the lenders. Your loan was cleared for settlement on
3/12/04 and was scheduled to close on 3/18/04. That settlement would have
happened if not for me finding out through your insurance company that there
was another mortgage outstanding. At that point I had, in good faith,
followed through with my obligations as far as closing your loan. Once I
found out that you had a second mortgage and that mortgage would need to be
subordinated, I took the steps necessary to make sure your refinance would
go through. This involved moving the loan you had locked, in good faith,
from the lender that had approved your loan to a new lender. Although moving
loans between lenders is not our normal practice because it hurts our
relationships with our lenders, I did this in order to save you lock
extension fees that would need to be paid to the original lender while
waiting for the subordination letter to come in from Deep Green.
3. Upon finding out about the HELOC that needed to be subordinated, I
immediately called my lender to make them aware that the settlement was not
going to occur. Therefore, closing docs were never drawn up. The lenders
will not have closing docs drawn up until 1-2 days before settlement in case
there are last minute changes to the docs that need to be made. There is a
cost to the lender for drawing up docs and for making changes once those
docs are drawn that is why they wait until right before settlement to do it.
I did request that the docs be drawn early and assuming you settled
yesterday as planned, you would have been able to view them by Wednesday at
the latest. As I stated before, I cancelled the settlement on Monday.
4. At this time, based on market conditions and your original good faith
estimate, the current rate we are offering for your size loan and for a 60
day lock period is 4.875%. In response to the 4.25% we are advertising on
our website, that rate is based on a purchase loan amount of $175,000 locked
for 30 days as disclosed at the bottom of the webpage. All three of those
factors greatly affect the rate. In addition, the fees associated with that
rate are $2,899.00 which are much higher than what you were paying.
Once again I apologize if your experience with us has been anything less
than acceptable. I hope you still want to go through with us providing your
financing. Please let me know how you would like me to proceed. I wish you
all the luck and happiness in the future.
Best Wishes,
C*****
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLANNED response. I'm going to sleep on it.
update I sent the message
I thank you for your time, but unless you can proceed with my 2 conditions, I'm just going to for-go a refi. I thank you for your time and effort. However, I do want to explain myself, I know you probably have a lot of clients and forgot some of the details.
1. The rate was already at 4.65% when we first talked (that was a month or 2 ago) and I said I'd go with 4.65%, but I'd prefer something lower. You told me that you would call me before 5:30 to let me know what you could do. I was more upset about you not calling me back (before 6 or even the next day) than you not getting the rate. I think you are getting confused with the times I've requested a float down.
2. I DID DEFINATELY disclose that I had a HELOC. We had a conversation about it (detailed in original email). Also, if you look at my signed application, I put it in the margin like you asked me to.
I am more upset about the forgetting and my calls not being returned than the actual rate
I decided to send my initially drafted message. After thinking about it more and getting input from you guys, I decided the mortgage guy does suck (actually I knew that in the back of my mind already) and that even getting a refi may not be a good idea unless I decide to sell in 7 years (which I'm not sure about, I may keep it as a rental property). I never really did take in consideration that rates might get really really high in 7 years so a HEL might end up with a higher rate than I have right now.
Thank you everyone for their input
Sorry about the length... I thought cliff notes might be biased.
I am getting a refinance from a 15 yr at 5.75% to a 7/1 ARM at 4.85%, but I was originally promised 4.65% on the estimate. I'm pretty upset about his service because he forgets things, has a short attention span (see his response), and doesn't call me back when he says so. It'll take me 4 years to make back the closing cost according to my spreadsheet and how I plan to pay it, but I'll be under less pressure since my required payment will be about 300 less. I kinda want to do the refi anyway since I do want to reduce my required monthly payment, but I'm still a bit pissed off at the guy. What do you guys think?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Cxxxxx,
I was planning on calling you today, but I had my
wisdom teeth pulled so I?m not really able to speak.
I was thinking about my refinance experience so far
with you yesterday and became very upset. You seem
very professional with me over the phone, however,
there are a number of things that I felt I was ?taken
for a ride? on.
1. The one day I wanted to lock at 4.65% or lower.
You had told me that it was at 4.65%, but you would
see if you could get a lower rate. You told me that
you would call me back before 5:30PM. I waited till
6:00PM and did not receive a call. When I called you
back the next day (you didn?t call me), you told me
the rates went up.
2. When I filled out the application, I had told you
that I didn?t have a second mortgage, but had a HELOC
on the account. You told me that I should close it
and recommended that I open it with you guys
(otherwise we would have to wait for the
subordination). Since the cost was too high to close
the HELOC I decided not to close it, so you told me
that I would probably have to go with a 60 day lock.
I was OK with that. However, one week later (last
week) you told me we were ready to close and HAD to
close on Thursday (yesterday). After a barrage of
forms (which I didn?t have to fill out for my first
mortgage btw) and missing my lunch get another form
filled out I had everything that you requested filled
ASAP for you. On Wednesday you told we couldn?t close
because of the HELOC (you should have known about the
HELOC, it was on the app and we talked about it? 60
day lock remember?).
3. I had requested to get a copy of the closing docs
before closing. Even if we had closed on Thursday,
you wouldn?t have gotten the closing docs to me before
closing.
4. Rates? on your web site you list the 7/1 ARM as
4.25% and you claim that you can?t even get me less
than 4.85%. Two things? when we initially talked, the
bankrate rate (PCS mortgage listing) was at 4.5 and
your website rate was at 4.5 you gave me a GFE at
4.65. Currently, the bankrate average is 4.5% - it
was even less yesterday. I?ve called a few mortgage
companies today just to be sure (with my loan amount
of 90,000) and have always gotten quotes between 4.5
and 4.65.
So? Because of all the problems I?ve had, I had
actually wanted to cancel my refinance. However,
since you have spent some time working on this, I will
be willing to work with you and close this mortgage
only with the following conditions.
1. I get a rate of 4.65% or below and you will still
honor the same fees (no add?l) on the GFE
2. I receive the closing docs 2 days before closing.
If you can't accomodate me on this, you can cancel my
application. I think I have been overly patient.
It?s just been very upsetting when I think of all this
I?ve been through, I may decide to not even get a refi
at all anymore. Well, let me know what you decide.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
His answer to my ultimatum in which he misunderstood my entire email. I don't think I was unclear, but maybe y'all could confirm
R********,
Let me say that I apologize if your experience with me so far has not been
what you expected. I've tried extremely hard to close your loan in a timely
manner with the information that's been provided to me. Please remember that
we have to adhere to all of the lender's rules and guidelines. Let me answer
the questions you have for me;
1. What I have is that you saw an interest rate of 4.5% and said that you
wanted that rate, but I explained to you that the banks have tiers for loan
amounts and that the loan amount of $92,000 would put you an .125% higher
than what we were offering. I said that the rates "may" go down the next day
but that I don't have a crystal ball, and that the decision is entirely
yours. You said that you wanted to see what the market was going to do the
next day(to see if they would go lower) as you had done several weeks prior.
Unfortunately the rates went up.
2. You never disclosed to me that you had an outstanding line of credit
which could be considered fraudulent if your refinance had gone through.
Lines of credit affect your debt to income ratios in addition to affecting
the lien placement of the lenders. Your loan was cleared for settlement on
3/12/04 and was scheduled to close on 3/18/04. That settlement would have
happened if not for me finding out through your insurance company that there
was another mortgage outstanding. At that point I had, in good faith,
followed through with my obligations as far as closing your loan. Once I
found out that you had a second mortgage and that mortgage would need to be
subordinated, I took the steps necessary to make sure your refinance would
go through. This involved moving the loan you had locked, in good faith,
from the lender that had approved your loan to a new lender. Although moving
loans between lenders is not our normal practice because it hurts our
relationships with our lenders, I did this in order to save you lock
extension fees that would need to be paid to the original lender while
waiting for the subordination letter to come in from Deep Green.
3. Upon finding out about the HELOC that needed to be subordinated, I
immediately called my lender to make them aware that the settlement was not
going to occur. Therefore, closing docs were never drawn up. The lenders
will not have closing docs drawn up until 1-2 days before settlement in case
there are last minute changes to the docs that need to be made. There is a
cost to the lender for drawing up docs and for making changes once those
docs are drawn that is why they wait until right before settlement to do it.
I did request that the docs be drawn early and assuming you settled
yesterday as planned, you would have been able to view them by Wednesday at
the latest. As I stated before, I cancelled the settlement on Monday.
4. At this time, based on market conditions and your original good faith
estimate, the current rate we are offering for your size loan and for a 60
day lock period is 4.875%. In response to the 4.25% we are advertising on
our website, that rate is based on a purchase loan amount of $175,000 locked
for 30 days as disclosed at the bottom of the webpage. All three of those
factors greatly affect the rate. In addition, the fees associated with that
rate are $2,899.00 which are much higher than what you were paying.
Once again I apologize if your experience with us has been anything less
than acceptable. I hope you still want to go through with us providing your
financing. Please let me know how you would like me to proceed. I wish you
all the luck and happiness in the future.
Best Wishes,
C*****
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLANNED response. I'm going to sleep on it.
update I sent the message
I thank you for your time, but unless you can proceed with my 2 conditions, I'm just going to for-go a refi. I thank you for your time and effort. However, I do want to explain myself, I know you probably have a lot of clients and forgot some of the details.
1. The rate was already at 4.65% when we first talked (that was a month or 2 ago) and I said I'd go with 4.65%, but I'd prefer something lower. You told me that you would call me before 5:30 to let me know what you could do. I was more upset about you not calling me back (before 6 or even the next day) than you not getting the rate. I think you are getting confused with the times I've requested a float down.
2. I DID DEFINATELY disclose that I had a HELOC. We had a conversation about it (detailed in original email). Also, if you look at my signed application, I put it in the margin like you asked me to.
I am more upset about the forgetting and my calls not being returned than the actual rate
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