Alternative to the immigration law in Arizona..

[MrEgo]

I'm addressing this to anyone with an alternative solution to Arizona's immigration law. What other reasonable options do we have to help keep illegal immigration under control?

Reasonable, please.

I'm seeing a lot of opposition on the media, but not much of a counter-proposal. Everyone I talk to supports this law, although I am not friends with anyone of hispanic descent.

 

[Jaskalas]

Amnesty.

Hey, I might as well say it before they do. Certainly you know what that entails? If you simply legalize something then it isn't a problem anymore, right?

 

[zsdersw]

If you simply legalize something then it isn't a problem anymore, right?

If you can oversimplify a problem you can oversimplify its solution, right?

Not all issues are the same, which is something you should know but apparently do not.

 

[Munky]

A minefield and gun turrets lining the border

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Open up a year-round hunting season within ten miles of the border.

 

[Modelworks]

$250K penalty for hiring, renting to, or providing services to aid an illegal .

 

[MovingTarget]

Placing troops (and lots of them) on the boarder. This I feel would inevitably start another war with Mexico, but hey, maybe a good old fashioned 19th century land grab is just what we need.

As much as I dislike this bill, I don't see any real alternatives that are more palatable long-term. Either we roll over as the illegal immigration problem gets exponentially worse, or we stomp down hard. We would still need to streamline (i.e. de-fubar) the legal immigration process, sure, but people need to stop howling OMGAMNESTY every time reforming any part of the system is mentioned. That is the only realistic long-term solution.

 

[ElFenix]

continue tanking economically, that's been sending people back home in droves.

 

[Slew Foot]

Make them all citizens and give them free food, housing, education, cars, and health care for life

 

[Modelworks]

As long as the businesses can hire without being hurt the illegals have a reason to come here. Start penalizing the companies in big ways and not just slapping them on the hand and things will change

Five employees of Perdue Farms Inc. have filed a federal, class-action lawsuit against 15 managers, accused of regularly hiring illegal aliens. The plaintiffs allege that the managers have conspired to hire large numbers of illegal aliens, thus suppressing the wages of legal workers.

The plants named in the suit are in Salisbury, Md., Accomac, Va.; Bridgewater, Va; Concord, N.C.; Cromwell, Ky.; Dillon, S.C.; Dothan, Ala.; Fayetteville, N.C.; Georgetown, Del.; Lewistown, N.C.; Milford, Del.; Monterey, Tenn.; Perry, Ga.; Rockingham, N.C.; Showell, Md.; and Washington, Ind.

The plaintiffs make the following accusations against Perdue managers:

- Falsely attesting on I-9 forms that illegal immigrants presented genuine work documents.
- Hiring employees that previously worked in other Perude plants under different aliases.
- Coaching illegal aliens to claim high numbers of dependents on tax forms to reduce tax withholding.
- Tipping off illegal employees to rumors of government raids in plants so they are not at the plant during the inspection and not arrested.
- Telling legal workers perceived to be underworking to work harder or they would be replaced by new hires "from the tomato fields," a euphemism for illegal workers.

The lawsuit states: “Illegal immigrants will work for extremely low wages, will typically not complain about workplace conditions and injuries, and because of their vulnerable situation, will accede to employer demands to work harder and longer hours than American citizens.”

The plaintiffs’ attorney, Howard Foster, said: “They are able to get away with it because the federal government lets them get away with it. They don't enforce immigration laws very well.”

Perdue Farms is one of the country’s largest poultry processing company, with more than $4.5 billion in annual sales.

 

[dullard]

$250K penalty for hiring, renting to, or providing services to aid an illegal .

Bingo.

As long as we provide them with jobs, housing, services, etc., then they will come. Take those away, and illegals aren't a problem any more. Not that illegals are that big of a problem to begin with though (most of it is just unbased fear).

Doesn't removing their incentive to be here sound far more reasonable than arresting someone because you think they may be foreign and they don't have ID? What if a cop thinks YOU are foreign and you don't have your driver's license with you? Under the current Arizona law, you too must be questioned/arrested. That is just a rediculous law.

 

[Patranus]

It is more reasonable to enforce existing law than it is to pass an entire new package of legislation.

We had this debate in the 80s and government PROMISED the American people that it would be the last time.

The government is the one who failed to hold up their end of the deal not the American people. The American people should get fucked because government failed.

Like most things, if government just enforced existing laws we wouldn't have 1/2 the problems we have.

The thing is that right now the Democrats would rather play race politics in their tough election year because that is easier.

 

[Zedtom]

We could sub-contract out our border control to another agency...let's say the Chinese Army. That way we don't have to deal with the Mexicans accusing anyone of racism.

 

[nobodyknows]

Sealing the border is the first step.

 

[theflyingpig]

Sealing the border is the first step.

No, it's not. Like others have said, we must target the fools who give the illegals reason to come here. The 250K fine that was suggested earlier is too little. There must be pain involved. Pain in million dollar fines. Pain in the confiscation of assets. Pain in prison. These fools must be made to understand that hiring illegals will only bring them suffering. Once this point is made, the illegals will have nowhere to go. Everyone knows this.

 

[Steeplerot]

Whats really funny, besides the short sightedness of the resident klanners about our neighbors and their effect on our economy is the long term effects of this on legal residents. So many natural born americans work under the table also.
Wonder how many more will be on welfare who were forced out of productive employment.

So much for small government conservatism...

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Whats really funny, besides the short sightedness of the resident klanners about our neighbors and their effect on our economy is the long term effects of this on legal residents.

What's even funnier is that you think anyone takes you seriously when all you can do is imply or scream "racism!" instead of discussing that actual issue.

So many natural born americans work under the table also.
Wonder how many more will be on welfare who were forced out of productive employment.

So much for small government conservatism...

So enforcing laws is now the sign of "big government"?!?!?!

 

[Patranus]

No, it's not. Like others have said, we must target the fools who give the illegals reason to come here. The 250K fine that was suggested earlier is too little. There must be pain involved. Pain in million dollar fines. Pain in the confiscation of assets. Pain in prison. These fools must be made to understand that hiring illegals will only bring them suffering. Once this point is made, the illegals will have nowhere to go. Everyone knows this.

I don't think you understand how contract labor works.
How many people hire people off craigslist and never ask or check their legal status.
Are you going to fine those people 250k each?

It is the responsibility of GOVERNMENT to ensure that everyone is in this country legally, not the employer.
If the government did its job employers can assume that all employees are legal.
It is the fault of the government not the employer.
Stop trying the shift the blame form the party who is responsible to someone else.

 

[piasabird]

Well when they had problems with Indians in the 1800's they just offered a bounty for every Indian Scalp you turn in.

Heaven forbid we actually make the federal government do its only job it has a constitutional obligation to perform.

 

[Steeplerot]

What's even funnier is that you think anyone takes you seriously when all you can do is imply or scream "racism!" instead of discussing that actual issue.



So enforcing laws is now the sign of "big government"?!?!?!

No, creating bureaucracy is not small government, nor is making everyone show papers to work because how dare dem brown people git sum.

No point in arguing with knuckleheads, just pointing out how unreasoned and petty you nativists are during the circlejerk.

Here's to amnesty and a real american with fresh papers taking you guys jobs you think you are entitled to because you fell out of someones vagina on a certain piece of land.

 

[Mursilis]

The government is the one who failed to hold up their end of the deal not the American people.

The American people are, by extension, the gov't.

 

[MrEgo]

I don't think you understand how contract labor works.
How many people hire people off craigslist and never ask or check their legal status.
Are you going to fine those people 250k each?

It is the responsibility of GOVERNMENT to ensure that everyone is in this country legally, not the employer.

I'm definitely not an accounting expert, but isn't it true if you hire someone for full-time employment, you also have to match what your employee pays in social security, and it's up to you to deduct payroll taxes from your employees?

If I hired an illegal alien to rake my yard for a couple hours, wouldn't then the responsibility fall onto him to declare that as income and send it off to the IRS? Not that anyone would ever do that..

Or maybe that's the loophole?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

No, creating bureaucracy is not small government, nor is making everyone show papers to work because how dare dem brown people git sum.

Allow me to translate from Steeplerot-ese to English:

I have no valid argument, so I will continue to spew the same "racism!" cry that my liberal arts professors programmed me to yell!

WHY do you think people who VIOLATED our laws are entitled to "git sum"?

No point in arguing with knuckleheads, just pointing out how unreasoned and petty you nativists are during the circlejerk.

The only knucklehead here is you, and you've refused to have any reasonable or civil discussion. "Racism! Racism!" is the cry of the feeble-minded who are incapable of understanding and framing a coherent argument.

You're right about nativists though -- it isn't like ANY other country in the entire world has immigration laws, after all. Check into your beloved socialist paradises in Europe lately? Check out Swiss law. Damn, those "racists" and "elitists"!

Here's to amnesty and a real american with fresh papers taking you guys jobs you think you are entitled to because you fell out of someones vagina on a certain piece of land.

You guys just don't get it. Who are you exactly? Are you a "real" American? No, you're a caricature of the typical looney left fruitcake who spews crap and has no clue what the issue really is. You can only scream "Racism! Racism!!" like your good little masters have trained you to scream. Racism is NOT the issue.

The fact of the matter is, this is now law. The fact of the matter is, similar laws have been on the books for years and have NOT been enforced. You don't like the laws? Write your Congressperson. Otherwise, this is the law of the land, it will now be enforced in at least one state, and finally, something is being done.

I tell you what. Do me a favor. Go to southern Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California. Wait until it is dark out and sneak into Mexico. Wait a week and tell the authorities that you're there illegally. Report back the results.

 

[Patranus]

I'm definitely not an accounting expert, but isn't it true if you hire someone for full-time employment, you also have to match what your employee pays in social security, and it's up to you to deduct payroll taxes from your employees?

If I hired an illegal alien to rake my yard for a couple hours, wouldn't then the responsibility fall onto him to declare that as income and send it off to the IRS? Not that anyone would ever do that..

Or maybe that's the loophole?

That is what I am saying.
But using the logic of some on this board, those people should be fined 250k.

 

[Fenixgoon]

No, creating bureaucracy is not small government, nor is making everyone show papers to work because how dare dem brown people git sum.

No point in arguing with knuckleheads, just pointing out how unreasoned and petty you nativists are during the circlejerk.

Here's to amnesty and a real american with fresh papers taking you guys jobs you think you are entitled to because you fell out of someones vagina on a certain piece of land.

you seem to be missing the fact that the issue is ILLEGAL immigration. most/all people here are for legal immigration, including myself.

illegal immigration IS a problem for a number of reasons, including but not limited to:

economic growth
population stability
demand of social services (education, welfare, etc)

putting our heads in the sand is not going to solve the problem by any means. we need to get back to enforcing our law, controlling our borders, and punishing those who break the law either by either crossing illegally or employing illegal immigrants.

enforce current laws, then talk about reform.