Alternative Theory Fun :)

[TruePaige]

Fun thread: Respond to the OP post or post your own fun ideas, better than rehasing the same issues 1000 times in different threads I thought. Hope it turns out to be fun for the rest of you P&N'ers.

As we all know, on the world scale the United States is not faring so well. We are a nation rife with internal strife and wrought with rather substantial levels of debt.

BUT we a nation with some significant advantages. We have natural resources that are the envy of many countries and a climate that is suitable for many types of agricultural activity that other countries would be hard pressed to compare to.

If we were to perceive entry into an ever worsening state, with possible ramifications that included a drop from at least world power status and possibly first world status here is a maneuvering plan I think could work quite well.

Basically it would involve a retooling of our economy to allow for most all good and services to be provided domestically and (near completely) eliminate foreign dependence.

All energy sources would be domestically sourced. This means: Nuclear / Solar / Wind / Geothermal (highly limited) / Hydro / Coal

All food products would be sourced domestically. Potatoes / Carrots / Oranges / Corn / Wheat / Soybeans / Cabbage / Lettuce / Apples / Grapes / Cranberries / Grapefruit / Pineapple / Peas / Strawberries / Blueberries / Raspberries / Coconuts / etc..

These eliminate some of the biggest needs.

Technology products are also either available or capable of being retooled to deal with the lack of certain materials we may encounter (Lithium and Zinc are not acquired in huge amounts here, but the possibility of such isn't completely ruled out).

Transportation, Entertainment, Subsistence, and Productivity can all be done internally with out own resources without worrying about the value of the dollar on the world market, in this theory which is fully capable with a reimplementation of a domestic manufacturing core to counteract global depression effects by eliminating the global element.

In fact, technologically we hold many of the corporations that have design and implementation information for the whole world in their hands and can help sustain American growth and independence.

This alternative theory proposes that the true path to American Independence is through using what we have and not feeling entitled to spend our future on the things we do not have.

 

[Moonbeam]

Or we could become Buddhists and be really really really happy in the now. We could feel sad, when others take all we have that we couldn't also give them the moon.

 

[blackangst1]

I think what you are suggesting would be considered isolationist, and that is a huge undertaking. Being a global leader means playing globally. Im not saying its right or wrong, Im just saying that isnt the direction we as a country have been heading in the last 40 years. Cutting dependence globally would also mean American companies cutting income sources globally as well which I dont think is a popular idea.

Interesting topic though.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Our current level of dependence on other nations for energy is a significant concern. The strategic oil reserve does help, but it could not sustain us for a long period of time. Fortunately, a large chunk of our imported oil comes from allies (like Canada) and pseudoallies (ie one regime change away from being our enemies like Saudi Arabia).

Food is more efficiently produced in climates that are best suited for that particular crop, when the transportation costs justify it. Unfortunately, the US cannot grow every type of produce in the quantities demanded. Imports will be required if we want a variety of food.

Heavy industrial products (like steel) can still be produced to some extent here, especially if we have tariffs on foreign companies that receive significant state subsidies. But, tariffs, even against foreign companies that receive subsidies, is a very tight rope to walk as it has repercussions (especially since we subsidize certain industries). Trade wars are not fun.

IMO, we need to get away from coal. We have one of the largest (if not the largest) coal reserves in the world, but it is rather nasty stuff and we can export what we do not use.

Freight boats, trucks and trains drink a large amount of fuel. Using small nuclear reactors in some ocean freighters can help. But, I imagine the political "fallout" from that would not be pretty as some nations / cities probably do not want nuclear powered ships to dock. Not to mention Somali pirates getting their hands on a nuclear reactor is a bad thought. I would love to see freight and passenger trains powered by electricity sent over lines or through the rails rather than having a diesel locomotive attached. Electricity can be provided by hydroelectric dams and nuclear power plants. But, we really need a way to deal with the byproducts. Opening Yucca Mountain (or an equivalent site) would be a good start. Unfortunately, passenger vehicles and freight trucks are probably not ready for mainstream electric power until we have a major breakthrough in long lasting, cheap batteries, so they are stuck on gasoline / diesel for now. But, that is my "dream" of energy, probably many flaws in it.

Right now, IMO, we should start to cure our debt by cutting spending (social welfare, corporate welfare, military, etc.) and possibly by raising some taxes (both are fine lines to walk since the economy is so unstable). Energy can be worked on at the same time.

 

[piasabird]

This would totally suck. I like oriental food and I like being able to import items from the East Specifically Korea. Also I love the Misquite Honey that Trader Joe's sells from Mexico and also other items from overseas where ever it comes from. Viriety is the spice of life. If I want that special ham from spain or someone else wants to drink Amaretto from Italy or some special Vodka that should be fine.

Energy comes from many sources also. We buy a lot of Oil products from Canada. However, Canadians do not want to kill us. We also sell a lot of oil from alaska to Japan. The japanese just want us to buy thier stuff. It might be nice if we could drill for oil offshore, but some people dont like that idea so we created a bunch of stupid laws to make that difficult.

Computers would be really complicated if we could not import motherboards and other things.

 

[Zebo]

Current debt and spending levels are unsustainable. And since we refuse to address income disparity as both parties are owned by those whose net worth is above 18 million aka top 1% there will be no change until those anti-riot payments are no longer paid out. We will probably be forced by other countries into stop payments before Obama's administration is out and then SHTF - Government can print but it amounts to the same thing since money becomes worthless - unfortunately totalitarianism will result whether fascist or communist it's hard to say but that's how it goes.

 

[XZeroII]

There's only one solution...

We cross the streams.

 

[monovillage]

We could always enlarge what is considered the United States. Mexico, all of Central America and most, if not all of South America would be pretty easy to take over militarily. If we used just the weapons we have stockpiled and reduced their populations to more manageable levels we could probably keep insurgency problems down. Maybe we could even get a good number of countries to participate willingly like our good Canadian friends!

 

[Xellos2099]

Maybe we can actually plant more food and export them? Do people have any idea on how much government PAY to large plantation owner to NOT plant on their land?

 

[sandorski]

Unless everyone else becomes Isolationist, any single Nation to do so will quickly fall behind in one way or the other. Especially if that Nation has shortfalls in certain needed Resources.

 

[drebo]

Our current level of dependence on other nations for energy is a significant concern.

You do realize that this condition is a direct result of government intervention and lobbying, right?

Without these ridiculous government regulations, the free market long ago would have opened up America's oil stores and we would be sourcing oil domestically and likely exporting it to a number of other countries.

What the OP proposes should not be a radical idea. It's called free market economics. Unfortunately, it is not possible because the government has decided to regulate every aspect of what the OP proposes. Due to those regulations, it makes it unlikely that we will every be able to successfully stop importing anything.

When this country was formed and the Constitution drafted, those who did the forming and the drafting envisioned the US as a non-interventionist state, both domestically and foreignly. Had we stuck that course, we would be both more self-sufficient, and other countries would hate us far less. Not only that, but we would be more prosperous. Our dollar would still be backed by SOMETHING (instead of nothing, like it is today), and we would not have a government trillions of dollars in debt. The 700 military bases we have in 130 countries around the world are expensive, but they are a pittance compared to our undeclared liabilities caused by our domestic social welfare programs. At last count, it was something like $50 trillion, in addition to our already $9 trillion deficit.

What the government needs to do is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If we want to get out of this mess, it needs to STOP spending money, and the Fed needs to STOP creating credit. Let interest rates rise again. That will spur foreign investment and keep people from investing in stupid things. When that happens, prices of everything will fall and we may just start seeing a halt to our near-hyperinflation.

 

[drebo]

Unless everyone else becomes Isolationist, any single Nation to do so will quickly fall behind in one way or the other. Especially if that Nation has shortfalls in certain needed Resources.

Why must everything always be extreme?

You don't need to support isolationism in order to think that we can do most things on our own...and that everyone else in the world can pretty much do the same (or if they can't, then they probably shouldn't be a country).

Isolationism and non-interventionism are NOT the same thing.

 

[drebo]

Maybe we can actually plant more food and export them? Do people have any idea on how much government PAY to large plantation owner to NOT plant on their land?

So why don't we abide by what the Constitution says and have the government STOP interfering with the free market?

Wouldn't that make sense? And, not just in this instance...but in ALL isntances.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Honestly, I don't think anything is going to change. It has gotten to a point where if the US fails, it's going to take the rest of the world with it.
Our money spent on oil to Saudia Arabia and other middle eastern countries keeps the in check and more friendly. If they lost that income they would be screwed and unable to sustain their lavish lifestyles, and they would not have our money to buy commodities and resources their nations need. Millions across the globe will starve to death as America exports a large % of grain to the rest of the world, enough so that all the other nations could not make up for it.
China will loose it's largest customer and be bankrupted themselves when the 700+ billions of dollars they own are worthless. Japan has a lot of it too and would be severly hurt. Europe is going to be hurting as it relies heavily on US backing to prevent Russia from over stepping it's bounds and steam rolling through it's former states and re-claiming them.