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Already have a basic watercooling setup... want to reduce temps further... need suggestions!

G

Gannon

Senior member
Ok on a whim when I upgraded to a Core 2, I purchased the thermaltake Bigwater SE, found here

The price was appealing and I had never done watercooling before, so I thought what the hell... it wasn't until I put the system together and saw just how much heat limited clockspeeds that I got interested in pushing it further.

Now that I'm pushing 3.7Ghz on a Core 2 E6600, I'm wondering what I can do to get the temps down, what extra pieces I could buy / change... or maybe just outright sell this kit and get another?

I've reached my maximum in terms of temperature but I can still go further if I can get colder, I can o/c up to 3.9ghz for light tasks but the heat under sustained load is just way too much without better cooling.

What would you guys suggest?
 
u coudl change the pump in the big water.It is kinda weak compared to others.
More water pressure usually equates to better cooling.U could swap out the fan in the radiator for a higher CFM one.Also a better block might help.Like the apogee extreme from swiftech.
And while ur at it get urself some dangerden 120mm radiators.
Ofcourse this is pretty much changing the entire system.
So go with the pump and the fan first.
See how much further u can go.Then go for a better water block.I'm sure a better pump and fan would do the trick.
Get one of the pumps from swiftech.
 
It really depends what you want to do with it. Do you want to cool the GPU and CPU? Or just the CPU.

I really like the MCP655 Pump.

For a CPU block if you really want to go all out then get a Swiftech Storm. The supplies aren't that great though. If you want something cheaper then there's always the Apogee.

Building a custom loop will always be better and will most likely last you longer then buying some pre-made one. It may take a little longer to build and may be slightly more expensive (sometimes it's actually cheaper to just do it yourself too) but it's good for temps and the long run.

For GPU blocks there's the good old Maze4/Maze5 or the Swiftech MCW60.

The list goes on.
Go here.

Read all the stickies there and you'll be a lot more informed about stuff (read the ones that apply to you).
 

The most important parts of your system are the Radiatior and pump given that you have a decent CPU block (or other blocks ofc).

For me I would upgrade your systme in the following order:

- Radiator - the best is the Thermochill PA series if you cant find it get a Swiftec second best. If you intent to stay wit w/c get the biggest you can (i.e. a PA 120.3)

- Then the pump, DDC+ 12V pumps 18W (Alphacool, Danger Den and others - the pump is made by Laing)

- Then the CPU block get the Apogee is perfectly fine. The storm is better but how much better? Not MUCH! 1C on the Dual Cores and on Quad Cores the Apogee is better.



 
People never listen to the veterans in this field when they say STAY AWAY FROM TT WATERCOOLING. People also never listen when veterans tell them dont bother going on water unless ur willing to dish out 180+ on decient parts.

Well lesson learned and im not going to say i told you so, now u have to basically start from scratch. The reason is because TT likes to Mix metals sometimes. They used to have aluminum on there aquabays and use copper on the cpu block. EVeryone will tell you mixing metals is the bigest nono u can do in watercooling.

Look at my new thread for some ideas on parts

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=37&threadid=1979747&enterthread=y

if you want to push your cpu to the extreme, id go with a dual pump layout on a swiftech storm. Your not going to find a better block and ur gonna need the second pump to push the storm to its max.

If you want better cooling temps then your TT and try to save a budget, get the swiftech APEX240 H2O kit. It comes with everything in a nice clean box with a hugh instruction manual on how to install. Thats gonna cost you about 179.99 with pumps cpu block tubing rez and coolant additive.

If this is too still too expensive, trash your watercooling kit, go out and buy a tuniq tower and migrate back to air. The tuniq will perform almost at par with your bigwater and give you less headaches when your pump fails, as countless amount of people have when they used bigwater kits.

My proof on the pumps? google it, also TT made 3 revisions on that stupid pump in a span of 7 months for that kit. That itself should tell you a lot.


UMMMM Wanted to add on the 120x3 radiator. DO NOT GET THIS UNLESS UR DAYAM CREATIVE WITH MOUNTING. It will not fit on almost all the cases out there. I had to custom DYO a external kit to fit a 360 radiator. It wont fit on my ARMOR unless i ditch a optical, so it wont fit on any 11 bay large tower case. Keep in mind, your gonna need 9 (5 1/4) bays if you want to mount it internally. And forget about mounting it on top because your gonna need to do some major modding.

EDIT: The 120x3 wont even fit on my TJ-07 unless i do some SERIOUS modding. And those of you that know what a TJ-07 is, my heart kinda skips when i think of the idea of drilling a hole in a 300 dollar case. :X

 
Originally posted by: aigomorla
People never listen to the veterans in this field when they say STAY AWAY FROM TT WATERCOOLING. People also never listen when veterans tell them dont bother going on water unless ur willing to dish out 180+ on decient parts.
Click to expand...

Hey I didn't even know I wanted it, the watercooling kit was cheap and I thought what the hell. I wasn't looking for extreme cooling when I went to upgrade, I have never been a performance addict. I just caught the bug to push my cpu further because I can boot the 2.4ghz E6600 into windows @ 4.0ghz so give me a little lee-way will ya? The only reason I'm really asking is because I got a decent chip that can overclock insanely well even with a crappy thermaltake. 🙂

Oh yes, PS I do have a Scythe ninja... so I can go back to air.
 
Originally posted by: aigomorla
People never listen to the veterans in this field when they say STAY AWAY FROM TT WATERCOOLING. People also never listen when veterans tell them dont bother going on water unless ur willing to dish out 180+ on decient parts.

Well lesson learned and im not going to say i told you so, now u have to basically start from scratch. The reason is because TT likes to Mix metals sometimes. They used to have aluminum on there aquabays and use copper on the cpu block. EVeryone will tell you mixing metals is the bigest nono u can do in watercooling.
Click to expand...


I can see how there might be a reactivity issue between copper and aluminum, but silver and copper has always worked wonderfully for me when working with metals. I would personaly go with plastics over metals - they're not reactive with much of anything.



Originally posted by: aigomorla
Look at my new thread for some ideas on parts

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=37&threadid=1979747&enterthread=y

if you want to push your cpu to the extreme, id go with a dual pump layout on a swiftech storm. Your not going to find a better block and ur gonna need the second pump to push the storm to its max.
Click to expand...

THIS IS 100% CORRECT. Dual pumps is a great idea, as even if one of your pumps dies, you've still got a second to keep your system from frying. A sound-alert flow monitor system (I know somebody sells 'em for under $30) is another good idea.

I might go with a small car heatercore or radiator, if only to save cost. Ehiem makes some very nice pumps, at some not-so-nice prices.

Originally posted by: aigomorla
UMMMM Wanted to add on the 120x3 radiator. DO NOT GET THIS UNLESS UR DAYAM CREATIVE WITH MOUNTING. It will not fit on almost all the cases out there. I had to custom DYO a external kit to fit a 360 radiator. It wont fit on my ARMOR unless i ditch a optical, so it wont fit on any 11 bay large tower case. Keep in mind, your gonna need 9 (5 1/4) bays if you want to mount it internally. And forget about mounting it on top because your gonna need to do some major modding.

EDIT: The 120x3 wont even fit on my TJ-07 unless i do some SERIOUS modding. And those of you that know what a TJ-07 is, my heart kinda skips when i think of the idea of drilling a hole in a 300 dollar case. :X
Click to expand...

Then why on earth do you have a $300 case?

While I no longer actally know where it is, I had a server case that would have worked perfectly. By adding the radiator/fan/resivoir assembly in the secondary drive cage above the power supply and behind the motherboard in the massive open area (it was for an E-ATX board), there was enough room for TWO watercooling system - and there were big mesh grates everywhere.

It only cost me $8.

I'd reccomend finding a similar case, and getting a hole saw (a power drill attachment) for cutting out some holes.

As a side note, a discrete 12v power supply is the only way to go. I'd reccomend the following:
http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/22133

It's $10, rated for long-tem industrial use, and rated for a reasonable 4A at 12v. (If you need 24v, let me know - I can point you to a good PSU.

That said, for EXTREME cooling, phase-change is king. I've seen phase-change setups cobbled together for under $50 with a lot of DIY work. What's needed is an old mini-fridge (for the compressor and radiator), some copper tubing, and the bit that fits on the CPU. A large amount of waterproofing material is often used to prevent condensation, which generally is very common, considering the fact that phase-change will often allow temperatures of twenty below! b
 
Don't bother with the Eheim. I've used it before. It takes up too much space compared to other higher performing pumps. The AC power supply is a pain as well.

Get yourself a nice D5 (MP655), MCP355 DDC-1/MCP350, or AquaExtreme mcp600 (50z). These are considered to be the best DC pumps available. I personally like the D5 becuase you can adjust the flow with a built in regulator😉

I'd get rid of that 120mm radiator and get a 240mm dual core. My favorite for the money is the BIX-II. Incredibly good performance for under $50 (with 1/2" barbs included).

That waterblock is not that good either. There are many choices..... almost too many to choose from😕 I managed to find a AquaExtreme MP-05 SP LE. It is an incrddibly good block, but hard to find. A lot of people like the Swiftech Storm or Apogee. The TDX is decent and better priced than the others.

Ensure you use 1/2" tubing. A T-line will be the cheapest method of filling, but resivors take a little less time to bleed. I leak test over night with a 12v DC source powering the pump only. Usually the air is bled running overnight.

A good thread to learn from is HERE!!

I spent about $250 on a good setup...... two different times. Thats about what you need to shell out for a good performing setup. Here are some good links to online WC'ing stores:

DangerDen

DTech Customs

Petra's- for the best value I'd go with THIS!!

I think you will get the most for your money at Petra's.

If I could say one thing..... The components that matter the most- pump, radiator and block😀

Edit- BTW I currently have a BIX 120mm core and I swapping it for a BIX-II 240mm core. Evene with all my well researceh components (D5 pump and MP-05 SP LE waterblock, this single 120mm core is not up to the task. I have a Sunon 90CFM fan on the core and it's still not enough. I was trying to keep the footprint of my WC'in small and got a smaller radiator than I wanted to get. Now I'm upgrading my radiator to a 240mm.
 
Black Ice is crap.

Thermochill PA is the best, and Swiftechs are the decent budget option.

Nobody really ever argues with that.
 
Originally posted by: Noubourne
Black Ice is crap.

Thermochill PA is the best, and Swiftechs are the decent budget option.

Nobody really ever argues with that.
Click to expand...

BIX-II is a very good radiator. If you want the very best, yes a Thermochill is better, but with three times the price tag. I don't know many people that would argue that under $50 the BIX-II is one of the better choices- as long as you don't mind high flow rate fans.

If you read THIS, you'll see the trade-offs between the different radiators and to say the BIX is crap is just plain ignorance on your part.

 
Originally posted by: JustStarting
Don't bother with the Eheim. I've used it before. It takes up too much space compared to other higher performing pumps. The AC power supply is a pain as well.

Get yourself a nice D5 (MP655), MCP355 DDC-1/MCP350, or AquaExtreme mcp600 (50z). These are considered to be the best DC pumps available. I personally like the D5 becuase you can adjust the flow with a built in regulator😉
.
Click to expand...

I know for a fact that every commercial watercooling pump is completely pwned by an aquarium pump I saw on Craigslist for about $50 a while back. Better reliability, better pressure, more cubic feet per minute.

Of course, it was something like $250 new, so go figure.

I, personally, would go for something large and industrial rated for heavy-duty use. They're going to be a little noisy, but industrial-spec stuff has never failed me in the past, and odds are that you can get it surplus at about 90% off the normal price. Expect to do a bit of bargain-hunting, though.

AC power is so mind-bogglingly easy I can't figure out why you're complaining about it. All you likely need is a step-down transformer and a bit of know-how. Wiring it so that it's turned on by the PC is also very, very easy; just wire a 1k ohm relay across one of the 12v rails going to the fans, and use it to turn on the pump.

For the radiator, I'd be very tempted to go for something homemade. If you can use MAPP gas torch to solder pipe, odds are that adding the fittings will be no trouble. (HINT: A layer of JB weld on the outside of the joint is a very good idea.)

If you're looking to spend $250+, try and find some used phase-change gear. I've seen some as low as $330 on the F/S/T forum, and it's hard to argue with the performance.



 
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I know for a fact that every commercial watercooling pump is completely pwned by an aquarium pump I saw on Craigslist for about $50 a while back. Better reliability, better pressure, more cubic feet per minute.
Click to expand...

The larger pumps add to much heat load to the system.... so what if it flows 50GPH more if it adds 2- 5C to your loop.

Originally posted by: CheeseheadOf course, it was something like $250 new, so go figure.
Click to expand...

Yea, Thats realistic for a pump. My whole system is just barely more than that.

Originally posted by: CheeseheadAC power is so mind-bogglingly easy I can't figure out why you're complaining about it. All you likely need is a step-down transformer and a bit of know-how. Wiring it so that it's turned on by the PC is also very, very easy; just wire a 1k ohm relay across one of the 12v rails going to the fans, and use it to turn on the pump.
Click to expand...

I used a PCI relay card with my Eheim 1250..... it was cake- just not as easy as plugging it into a Molex. If you have a good amount of room, no problem, but I'd go DC.

Originally posted by: CheeseheadFor the radiator, I'd be very tempted to go for something homemade. If you can use MAPP gas torch to solder pipe, odds are that adding the fittings will be no trouble. (HINT: A layer of JB weld on the outside of the joint is a very good idea.)
Click to expand...

For the hassle and money you just be better off buying a BIP-II or BIX-II. A good map torch will cost you $20 and if you hose you $30 radiator not knowing what your doing what's the use?

Originally posted by: CheeseheadIf you're looking to spend $250+, try and find some used phase-change gear. I've seen some as low as $330 on the F/S/T forum, and it's hard to argue with the performance.
Click to expand...

Phase is an option as well, but takes more space than I care for. It's like stacking a case under your current case.

If you're handy, building your own stuff is cool, but for $250 you know you're getting top notch NEW WC'ing gear.

Go read the Liquid Cooling threads on XS. There's far more people into WC'ing than here.



 
Originally posted by: JustStarting


The larger pumps add to much heat load to the system.... so what if it flows 50GPH more if it adds 2- 5C to your loop.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think it had an air-cooled motor, so the thermal difference would be tiny. I'm pretty sure it may have been more than $250 - it was a really fancy Japanese pump for reef aquariums. That said, who wants to spend that much on a pump?

Originally posted by: JustStarting


For the hassle and money you just be better off buying a BIP-II or BIX-II. A good map torch will cost you $20 and if you hose you $30 radiator not knowing what your doing what's the use?
Click to expand...

Everyone should have a Mapp or propane torch - it's an investment, not a cost!

As a side note, radiators are not $30 if you dig around long enough - you may be able to get one for free.

 
The BIX-II is a thicker core- 54mm I believe. The TX and GTS are made more slender to fit in tighter places.

The BIX-III is in the middle thickness wise- 397mm x 133mm x 40m thick

The BIX- GTStealth is 397mm x 133mm 29.6mm thick- can use quiter low CFM fans.

The BIX- GTXTreme is 397mm x 133mm x 55.70mm thick.

These are for the 360 series (3x120mm). The 240 series (240mm are 277mm in length). It all come down to hoe much room you have in your case and how nych you're willing to spend. The BIX-II is the best value for money and performance out of the three choices- just my 2 cents. I've built three rigs around that core and love them all.
 
For what it's worth, I reccomend using good old-fashioned teflon tape whenever installing screw-in connectors, and JB weld whenever you're worried something is leaky.

Also, have you considered a peltier or other chiller? If you're not afraid of a bit of noise or space, it's easy to use an old water fountian as a chiller. Good results were had using the water fountian's resivoir to hold the chilled water, and submerging a radiator in the resivoir. The radiator acts as an intercooler (while keeping the coolant seperate), and drops the temperature a great deal.

CPU-mounted Peltier coolers are also a popular method of improving your CPU's cooling, and not a terribly expensive one. Remember, however, that you will have to dissipate a heck of a lot of extra heat.
 
The larger pumps add to much heat load to the system.... so what if it flows 50GPH more if it adds 2- 5C to your loop.

To answer this comment 2-5C of extra heat shouldnt be that great for a 240 rad to dump out. Also GPH and headflow are two different measurements an amature in watercooling even knows this. The D5 has greater GPH but the 355 has greater headflow, the D5 however is dead silent and built to last longer then the 355, which is the reason why more people go D5 instead of the 355 route. In cases of storm, you want more headflow and not GPH.

Also to answer juststarting, yes if you DYO you can go cheaper. But were talking about noobies here. If you already are an experienced watercooler, i wouldnt have to tell you what budget to spend, HOWEVER on a noobie you need to set numbers so he can go buy the products ment for computer watercooling and not DYO parts together.

Anyhow were getting way too complicated for the op who is a noobie in watercooling. I gave you some choices, you can try to package individual parts to resemble that swiftech kit i told you about, but you'll realize its gonna come out close to the same price or a little cheaper, but you dont get the nice clamps and the really thick instruciton manual.

 
Yes I have read the link you posted before, many times. When did he put BI rads up at the top? Just last summer, he had them down at the bottom, below the Swiftech rads. A last resort so-to-speak. If you would read THIS then you'd know why people get the PA series rads.

The difference between the Thermochill PA and other rads (including Thermochill's own HE series) with the same fans installed at low RPMs is like 7C. A Thermochill 120.2 matches a Swiftech 320, and it does so using one less fan and less real estate.

Your comment about not caring about loud fans is true. You have to run major fans at high RPMs on a BI rad to match a PA 120.2 with a couple quiet 600RPM fans.

I'm not going to argue your sub-$50 point, although, I would strongly consider the Swiftech rads in that price range instead - they seem to require less airflow, and are barely more expensive.
 
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