Almost bought a Nissan 240sx yesterday

[Joemonkey]

So just about every day I check out www.cars.com and www.autotrader.com to see if i can find a 240sx that i may be able to test drive and possibly buy. For some reason I really like those cars, and have been looking for one for about 6 months. I stick to dealers since I would have to trade my car in in order to afford another car. The payoff amount on my car (1999 VW Jetta) is $6,297 and the trade in value is listed on kelly blue book at $6,500.

I look yesterday and there is a Maroon 1995 240sx with 71k miles for sale at a nearby dealership for $5,000

I decide to give it a chance, even though it is an automatic when I would like a 5 speed, and drive up there after work to take a look at it. The car was beautiful, paint was in great shape, just had the expected little rock chip dings on the front bumper and such. It also had an aftermarket stereo w/ CD player, but the speakers sounded kinda bad. The car had amazing pickup and the shifts were very smooth, even with me playing around with the overdrive button. I liked driving it quite a bit, and figured I would buy it if the numbers were right.

So, the salesman wants to go "talk some numbers" with me. We go look at my car and he gets the VIN and mileage, asks if anything is wrong with it, and I point out a very small mark near the trunk and the paint cracking a tiny bit on the passenger side rear fender, attempting to be as honest as possible. I also told him that before I bought it I ran a carfax and there was an accident indicator, but I had no idea what the accident entailed and I couldn't find any physical flaws on the car to indicate an accident.

So after the credit check and all that crap, he comes back and says they can get the car financed for me for 36 months at $170 a month. This sounds really good to me since a lot of places won't finance a 10 year old car at all, and my current payment is $150 for a 60 month loan on the Jetta. I then ask how much they will give me for trade on my car, and this is where it gets funny...

The guy offers me $4,000 for my car... says due to the accident on the carfax it will be really difficult for them to sell. I tell him that it didn't deter me from buying it, and he kinda looked at me and didn't know what to say. I said unless they at LEAST pay off my car, I was sorry for wasting his time and got up to leave. He said "woah wait a minute, i'll be right back, let me see what we can do, you aren't wasting my time at all! This is my job!"

A few minutes later, he comes back and says the absolute max they will give me for my car is $4,400. Again I say I'm sorry for wasting his time, and he looks at me all weird and asks me if I would be interested in any other cars on the lot. I told him that I have been looking for a 240sx for 6 months, and that this isn't the only one I had in mind, especially since I would rather have a 5 speed anyway. He then asks how much my wife's car's payoff amount is, and I tell her she is very happy with her car and would not want my car or to take over the payments on it. Then he tries to get me to keep my car AND get the 240sx, which would cost me $320 a month plus insurance for both until I could sell the Jetta for at least $6,300.

I look at him like he's on crack and say "well if I can sell my Jetta in the next few days for around $7,000 I'll call you back, I have your card" shake his hand and get ready to leave, and he has this dumbfounded look on his face that i've never seen on any car dealers face. I guess when you know exactly what kind of car you want and what you are willing to sacrifice to get it, you are one up on the car salesmen!

Hell, the KBB private party listing for my car is around freaking $8,000 anyway!

So, anyone want to buy my car for $7,000?

 

[Eli]

Uh, they're a dealer. They can't buy your car for it's retail value.

Well, they could.. but that would be pretty dumb from a business standpoint.

 

[StageLeft]

In the future I'd feign ignorance on what's wrong with your car. I have respect for individuals. If i'm selling them a car and they want to know what's wrong with it I'll be totally honest, but when it comes to a dealer I consider them a pro and if they are unable to find the problem, I am not going to be held responsible (obviously if there is some very peculiar problem which will blow the engine in 10 miles I should tell them). If you want that 240sx, you should be waiting for the 5 speed. You should find the one you want _private party_, buy it, then immediately now that it's yours go and sell your VW. I did that with my last car and it was great. If you try and do both with a dealer you're going to lose money one way or the other, whether it's what they give for trade in or how much 240sx you get for your money.

 

[Tremulant]

I love the 240SX, I'm going to be getting one. I would like either the '97-'98 model or the '91-'93 model. I don't like the front end on the '95-'96 and I think the only '94s are convertibles.

I've only been looking for about a month, but there really aren't any S14 kouki's in FL. I've seen a bunch of S13's and even a S13 convertible on the road, but I'm not sure how long a 13 year old car will last, especially since I have a lengthy drive to work. I even took a gander at the Sentra Spec-V's, but I really don't like the way that car looks.. at all. Plus I don't have $20k to spend on one. My limit at the moment is $5-6k, might go up as time passes, but probably not by much.
I actually saw an ad for a very nice, clean 1997 240SX in black going for $4500 on ebay, but I didn't have the $ at that time and before I could take another look at it the listing was removed. I'm guessing he got a local buyer.
Anyways, good luck on the hunt. :beer:

 

[Joemonkey]

Eli: I was just expecting the blue book trade in value of $6,500 and was willing to go down to the payoff amount of $6,300

Skoorb: The carfax shows the wreck, and the two blemishes I pointed out aren't that big of a deal. I would love to just be able to buy a car cash from a private party then have the luxury of waiting for my car to sell, but I don't have the cash, I would have to finance.

Tremulant: I can't explain why, but I fell in love with the '95 - '98 240sx. I don't like flip up headlights or convertibles, so below '95 is not for me. There is also a '97 240sx auto nearby for sale for $5,000 but I test drove it and the passenger side window wouldn't roll up, dash was a little cracked, roof had a few dents with rust like where a low lying branch had hit it, CEL was on, and it shifted VERY hard, like something in the transmission was about to go out.

I just don't understand why the dealership thought it was OK to sell a 1995 car for $5,000 (even though dealer retail on kbb is around $7,500) but only give me $4,000 on a car that is 4 years newer and probably an easy sell?

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

pictures of my '95 240SX

I never had a chance to say goodbye.

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
pictures of my '95 240SX

I never had a chance to say goodbye.

goodbye?

and thats pretty much the car I looked at but w/o the spoiler, and the wheels had more curb rash than yours...

 

[Tremulant]

The reason I liked the '91 so much is because my dad used to own one (Red, 5-speed, hatchback) and I loved it. Sadly he had to sell it when we moved, but it was going to be my car.

The '95-'98 is nice, but I prefer the '97-'98 because of the revised front end. It looks nice, especially in black. I'd be happy with a '95-'96 though, worst case I could buy the parts needed for the revised front end.

I actually saw a few in my area on Autotrader.com, but I have to wait for a few deals to go through before I have the cash to buy it.

mAdD: nice 240. <3 that car.

 

[Joemonkey]

That's true, those cars are VERY customizeable, you can make any older ones look like newer ones pretty easily

here are a few body kits and other mods... you can get S15 lights and front end conversions for around $1000 total as well.

of course, all 240sx owners must drive the hell out of their car until the engine blows up so they can do an SR20DET swap

 

[Tremulant]

Yeah. I like the S15, but I won't be doing that conversion. And yeah.. they love the SR20DET. I'd actually prefer a RB26 or try to cram a VQ35 into it. :evil:

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Tremulant
Yeah. I like the S15, but I won't be doing that conversion. And yeah.. they love the SR20DET. I'd actually prefer a RB26 or try to cram a VQ35 into it. :evil:

hey that's my idea!!

I plan to get another 240SX one day..and put in a VQ30 in there, it's perfectly suited for the 240. Can rev high, makes good torque, lightweight, and compact.

Some guy put in a VQ35 from a Maxima (FWD motor) into an RX7. Apparently that VQ35 is light enough for two people to lift it themselves (he had pics to prove it).

 

[Joemonkey]

Well, i took a gamble and put my car up on autotrader for $7500

if i sell it within a week or so (haha! yeah right!) then i'll go back and get that 240sx, but only if they sell it for around $4300

if not, i have friends w/ 2 cars that I can borrow from for a while

 

[sniperruff]

how many miles does your car have? i'm kinda interested but i doubt i have $7500. i still have a $13k loan to pay back in a couple of months =/

 

[bernse]

If you trade your car in at a dealer, you are just asking to get screwed. They will not give you close to what its worth.... or if they will, they'll just juggle the numbers and make you end up paying more for the new car.

 

[sniperruff]

hey i've just realized... how come the 99' regular and wolfsburg jetta look totally different? the wolfsburg looks like the old model

 

[Joemonkey]

in '99 they made both models of cars, old body style (Jetta MkIII) and new body style (Jetta MkIV)

i have no idea why, but there are plenty of '99 jettas out there with the old body style. it got so confusing that some places have "New Jetta" listed as the body type

car has just below 80k miles

and I know about getting screwed with trade ins, but if kbb lists trade in value at $6,500 you would think the dealer would try to come close to that, within $500 or so, not $2,500 below it

 

[SuperTool]

Dealers can go to dealer auctions and pick up a car for it's wholesale (trade-in) value or less, maybe a lot less.
So they aren't going to pay private party for a car unless they are making up the difference somewhere else on the deal.

 

[sniperruff]

hey if i were a car dealer, i'd try to rip anyone off too. that is why i am scared of buying a car at a dealer. i hate negotiating.

that seems like a fair price. try selling locally on newspapers, and one easy way to sell a car is put up ad's at your local university.

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Dealers can go to dealer auctions and pick up a car for it's wholesale (trade-in) value or less, maybe a lot less.
So they aren't going to pay private party for a car unless they are making up the difference somewhere else on the deal.

i don't expect them to pay private party price ($8000) just the trade in price ($6500) then sell it for retail price ($9500)

these are all approximate numbers from KBB

 

[SuperTool]

Just sell it private party.

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Just sell it private party.

look a few posts up, i already put it on autotrader...

 

[blahblah99]

$5000 is expensive for a 95 240sx, especially if its the base model AND auto, regardless of however many miles it has. I guess depening on where you live, it can vary slightly. In southern california 89-96 240SX are commonly available, but 95% of them are modified, or used and abused (engine wise). Because of that, sellers usually price them 20-30% cheaper than an excellent condition car. If you're going to buy a 240 to swap engines, then pick up any 240 that has a good body.

And if you're still looking for a 240sx in a few months, I might consider selling mine. It's a 97 240SX silver moss SE with a custom turbo turbo kit on the KA @ 0.5bar. I have to sell this when I get a house in the next year or so.

Good luck finding an S14! They're rare, especially the 97/98 years.

 

[Vic]

It is very rare that a dealer will ever give you more for your trade-in than the purchase price of the car you are buying, regardless of book. They want to upsell you, not downsell you.

You shouldn't even have looked at trading in to begin with. Did you know that the interest rate they offered you was 13.6%? That's not a good deal unless you have credit issues. And 10 year old cars are easier to finance. It's 11 year old cars where it gets more difficult. Plus, you should NEVER negotiate with a dealer on the basis of montly payment. NEVER.

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: Vic
It is very rare that a dealer will ever give you more for your trade-in than the purchase price of the car you are buying, regardless of book. They want to upsell you, not downsell you.

You shouldn't even have looked at trading in to begin with. Did you that the interest rate they offered you was 13.6%? That's not a good deal unless you have credit issues. And 10 year old cars are easier to finance. It's 11 year old cars where it gets more difficult. Plus, you should NEVER negotiate with a dealer on the basis of montly payment. NEVER.

I told the guy straight up that i knew i was trading down, and it's not like I took the deal, i knew it was a stinker. Also, i DO have credit issues, i'm in credit counseling right now, so I know how interest rates will be, i screwed up and now i'm paying for it. I also know not to negotiate over monthly payments, that negotiations should be over price then you pick the term of the loan.

wfsxpress is where my loan is now, and they will not finance anything over 6 years old, so i was surprised to see ANY financing on a 10 year old car.

blahblah99: kbb for that car in my area was $7500. I also know that $5k is expensive since i've seen '95s go for $2.5k and '97s go for $5k. However, happiness beats $$ any day of the week. Also, i live in KY, these cars are near impossible to find around here.