Almost an end to tipping: Bill to allow mgmt to keep tips failed

[JEDI]

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/24/news/economy/restaurants-tips-spending-bill/index.html

The Trump Administration's proposed rule would allow employers to pocket employees' hard-earned tips as long as they pay tipped workers the woeful federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour," said Rep. Bobby Scott (Democrat).


I didn't even know about this.
if it passed, I could see people tipping less because that $ could be kept by mgmt.

it could have been the spark to start the end to tipping! and stop everyone from having their hand out.
And most importantly, the customer would finally having an enjoyable end to the experience (dining, having hair cut, etc) instead of being guilted into tipping. <https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/why-tipping-should-be-banned-according-to-adam.2521764/>

 

[rh71]

I like how it says servers dodged a bullet on this one since it means they get to keep their tips. Why do we hear about them complaining about their tips or their job when they acknowledge they do much better with them than a regular wage? There's a reason they're doing those jobs.

Workers' rights groups argued the rule change would lower the pay of those who work at restaurants, hotels and bars. Opponents of the rule held splashy public protests. The Labor Department received more than 218,000 mostly negative comments on the proposal.

 

[dasherHampton]

Who's complaining?

I've never heard a good server complain about what they make from tips. Anywhere, or ever.

This certainly could have been the end of the restaurant business as we know it, which would have been a shame. I enjoy a good night out and I have no problem leaving a healthy tip when I'm treated well.

 

[Carson Dyle]

I don't think the OP read any further than the first paragraph of that article.

 

[Fern]

My reading of that article, and others, is different from the OP's. Further, I'm not sure how proposing tips be shared with cooks equal employers taking tips?

In any case, tip pooling does seem to have been passed, which the groups against sharing tips with cooks apparently supports . How is tip pooling any different than sharing tips with cooks?

I've known wait staff that wants to share tips, or least thinks it a good idea. If the cook slow rolls your orders because you don't share your tips fall.

I believe the quality of food preparation directly affects the guests' experience and therefor the amount of the tips and so the cook(s) should participate in tips since they help generate them.

Fern

 

[Thebobo]

Maybe have a tip box for the kitchen staff?

 

[dasherHampton]

My reading of that article, and others, is different from the OP's. Further, I'm not sure how proposing tips be shared with cooks equal employers taking tips?

In any case, tip pooling does seem to have been passed, which the groups against sharing tips with cooks apparently supports . How is tip pooling any different than sharing tips with cooks?

I've known wait staff that wants to share tips, or least thinks it a good idea. If the cook slow rolls your orders because you don't share your tips fall.

I believe the quality of food preparation directly affects the guests' experience and therefor the amount of the tips and so the cook(s) should participate in tips since they help generate them.

Fern

You know some pretty generous servers.

There is always tension between the wait staff and the kitchen. It's unavoidable. But quality, stable kitchen help is almost impossible too find and pay is commensurate to that. When I worked in a restaurant in college the lowest paid fry cook made over $15 an hour. The "chef" (I use that term loosely; he was a snow blowing moron) made almost $30 and hour. Servers made server minimum wage (under $3).

I think restaurants would like to get ride of servers but that would be a huge miscalculation. People like me will never see the inside of a restaurant again if we have to order from a tablet or a kiosk and get our food shoveled out to us by a bus boy.

 

[Darwin333]

My reading of that article, and others, is different from the OP's. Further, I'm not sure how proposing tips be shared with cooks equal employers taking tips?

In any case, tip pooling does seem to have been passed, which the groups against sharing tips with cooks apparently supports . How is tip pooling any different than sharing tips with cooks?

I've known wait staff that wants to share tips, or least thinks it a good idea. If the cook slow rolls your orders because you don't share your tips fall.

I believe the quality of food preparation directly affects the guests' experience and therefor the amount of the tips and so the cook(s) should participate in tips since they help generate them.

Fern

This is one thing that I have always questioned. Sure the server has an impact on my dining experience but, at least imho, the cook/chef has far more of an impact. If the food sucks no amount of great service is going to make enjoy the meal. I have always wondered why we tip the waiters who bring the food to us but not the people that actually make our delicious meals.

 

[JEDI]

This is one thing that I have always questioned. Sure the server has an impact on my dining experience but, at least imho, the cook/chef has far more of an impact. If the food sucks no amount of great service is going to make enjoy the meal. I have always wondered why we tip the waiters who bring the food to us but not the people that actually make our delicious meals.

because common perception is that waiters get paid $2.xx/hr and we know the cooks in the back are paid at least $7.xx/hr.
thus we're guilted into tipping the poor waiters

 

[Darwin333]

because common perception is that waiters get paid $2.xx/hr and we know the cooks in the back are paid at least $7.xx/hr.
thus we're guilted into tipping the poor waiters

Isn't "common perception" usually right in this case?

My point still stands, I love good service but I love good food even more and I think it is silly that it is absurdly easy to tip your waiter (just leave money on the table) but usually rather difficult to tip the people that cooked your food. Some places even have a policy against them accepting tips

 

[Exterous]

There is always tension between the wait staff and the kitchen. It's unavoidable. But quality, stable kitchen help is almost impossible too find and pay is commensurate to that. When I worked in a restaurant in college the lowest paid fry cook made over $15 an hour. The "chef" (I use that term loosely; he was a snow blowing moron) made almost $30 and hour. Servers made server minimum wage (under $3).

The BLS says the median wage for cooks is $10.99 so that fry cook was very well compensated.
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/cooks.htm
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/food-preparation-workers.htm#tab-1

Seems to be a common issue:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-2/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rants-pay-their-staff/?utm_term=.d9e6dd2ba649

 

[dasherHampton]

The BLS says the median wage for cooks is $10.99 so that fry cook was very well compensated.

That has to include fast food. No way the median wage for cooks at higher level establishments is under $11 an hour.

And - yes he deserved it. He was fantastic. He made some of the best onion rings, cheese sticks etc I've ever tasted anywhere.

 

[zerocool84]

In many states they are paid minimum wage anyways PLUS tips so they make good money anyways and it doesn't stop people from tipping.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

I worked 17 years in the hospitality industry under several different "gratuity models". From my own personal knowledge and experience, the "tip sharing" was between waiters, bartenders and busboys. The line cooks, chef, sous chef were NOT part of that sharing pool. Why? Simply because they were paid a significantly higher hourly wage. As a waiter, in my various jobs, I was either paid $2.10 to $2.50 an hour plus tips. OR a shift wage of $15-$20 for lunch/$25-$40 for dinner plus tips. An average "lunch" shift would start about 9:30-10:00am and run until 3:30-4:00; dinner would be 4:30 until midnight or later. Cooks generally worked an 8 hour shift so they were paid straight hourly.

YES, the line cooks have primary impact on the quality of the meal, but MY tips were based on quality of SERVICE. As a waiter, my guests relied on me with regards to meal suggestions, and my attentiveness. If I know a certain item can take time to arrive to the table or might have consistency issues regarding preparation, it's MY JOB to make sure my guest understands that or I try to steer them to an alternate choice. ALSO, when I get the specials from the Chef at the beginning of a shift, it's my job to know whether there is a push for a certain item to sell, one that can get turned out quickly, one that has limited availability, etc.

As a waiter, I can have an impact on how smoothly things run in the kitchen. I can manage my tables from the time the "Order IN" to"FIRE" to PICK UP. I do the kitchen NO FAVORS if I get all my tables to order as fast as possible and send 20 orders into the kitchen within 10 minutes. There is a LOT of table/time management that goes into waiting tables. It's not just punching an order in and running food out. A good waiter/waitress can help the kitchen out just as much as a good cook can help a waiter.

I dont tip poorly if my steak wasn't cooked right, or my vegetables were cold. I tell the management and I tip based on how my server MITIGATES these issues. Tipping in restaurants is for the Service not the food quality. That is why it's referred to as a "Service Gratuity"

 

[Exterous]

That has to include fast food. No way the median wage for cooks at higher level establishments is under $11 an hour.

It includes all cooks including the Federal Executive Branch which I just learned is the second highest average payment group for them and their mean hour rate for their 12,700 cooks is $19.11

Looking at only 'Restaurant cooks' doesn't change it that much. It goes from $10.99 to $11.61:
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes352014.htm

Tipping in restaurants is for the Service not the food quality. That is why it's referred to as a "Service Gratuity"

Some of us feel its gotten decoupled from the level of service in a lot of places. Instead it has become an expectation.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

That has to include fast food. No way the median wage for cooks at higher level establishments is under $11 an hour.

And - yes he deserved it. He was fantastic. He made some of the best onion rings, cheese sticks etc I've ever tasted anywhere.

Then you would be wrong, sir. I've actually discussed this at a fine steak house where the meal was costing me >$200 compared to a cheap steak house where it was <$40 yet the same cook preparing the steak was making the same sub-$10/hour rate. Now I am not suggesting the wait staff share their tips because the cooks aren't sharing their wages yet the cook's wages are several times that of the wait staff (wages, not anything else). BTW, I've had a steak incorrectly cooked at the fine restaurant more times than the cheap establishment. So, what does that tell you?

 

[ReggieDunlap]

Some of us feel its gotten decoupled from the level of service in a lot of places. Instead it has become an expectation.

I would agree with you on that. It depends on the place you are dining. A more "chain" like restaurant is much more likely to fall into that designation. A place where you have someone approach your table, take a drink order and food order all at the same time, but the drinks are delivered by one person and the food by another. I understand the concept of a "food-runner" but when I worked in a restaurant that used it, the runner was bringing out the food but the "waiter/waitress" was the one who served it. This kept the waiter on the floor in view of his tables/guests and allowed them to stay on top of service elements - drinks refresh, table cleaning, bread replacement etc.

Chain restaurants run more of a "crew" like system. You have greeters/order takers, drinks runners, food runners, and the like. Everyone covers the entire room rather than designated tables. These establishments are designed towards turnover and are not service oriented. The staff can very often be capable and pleasant, but the point is to get people in and out. I rarely tip more than a std 15% in this type of place.

 

[dasherHampton]

Then you would be wrong, sir. I've actually discussed this at a fine steak house where the meal was costing me >$200 compared to a cheap steak house where it was <$40 yet the same cook preparing the steak was making the same sub-$10/hour rate. Now I am not suggesting the wait staff share their tips because the cooks aren't sharing their wages yet the cook's wages are several times that of the wait staff (wages, not anything else). BTW, I've had a steak incorrectly cooked at the fine restaurant more times than the cheap establishment. So, what does that tell you?

That you exhibit weird behavior when you go out to eat, and that maybe you need to choose your restaurants better?

Who engages restaurant employees in discussions about what the kitchen staff makes? lol

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Why do we hear about them complaining about their tips or their job when they acknowledge they do much better with them than a regular wage?

Because unpredictability in income is in some ways more stressful then just having a low income.

Like, today's the 26th, right? So, imagine you can make anywhere from $25 to $150 in a given night, the variation is completely up to tips, and you need to have $300 by the end of the month to pay rent. You average $100 a shift, so you will probably be fine, but you have no idea whether you'll make it or not.

Fast forward now it's Sunday afternoon. The local team is out of the finals so your nights were slow. You're still $30 short for rent, there's seven church ladies drinking water in your 8-top for the last two hours, the last time they were here they left $0.37 and a Chick Tract as a tip, after trying to perform an exorcism because your pentacle fell out of your shirt while you were cleaning up their spilled food. Go ahead and tell me you're not on edge.

 

[Zorba]

Because unpredictability in income is in some ways more stressful then just having a low income.

Like, today's the 26th, right? So, imagine you can make anywhere from $25 to $150 in a given night, the variation is completely up to tips, and you need to have $300 by the end of the month to pay rent. You average $100 a shift, so you will probably be fine, but you have no idea whether you'll make it or not.

Fast forward now it's Sunday afternoon. The local team is out of the finals so your nights were slow. You're still $30 short for rent, there's seven church ladies drinking water in your 8-top for the last two hours, the last time they were here they left $0.37 and a Chick Tract as a tip, after trying to perform an exorcism because your pentacle fell out of your shirt while you were cleaning up their spilled food. Go ahead and tell me you're not on edge.

I'm sure most waiters could get a kitchen job with a predictable income if they wanted to. They don't because they'd be taking a pay cut at most restaurants.

Tipping is just a stupid custom. I play along and I'm glad that there are still some decent jobs for uneducated employees, but it defies any real logic. The lack of logic is proved by research that shows little correlation between service quality and tip amount.

 

[JEDI]

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-2/

couldn't get the podcast to play.

but found this:
So what happens if you eliminate tipping and raise menu prices?
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/danny-meyer/

this podcast you can download (.mp3 format).
plus there's a full transcript!

 

[JSt0rm]

I like how it says servers dodged a bullet on this one since it means they get to keep their tips. Why do we hear about them complaining about their tips or their job when they acknowledge they do much better with them than a regular wage? There's a reason they're doing those jobs.

nobody is complaining dummy.

 

[Mai72]

When I lived in Asia it was great that no one tipped, but I always felt guilty and left a few Thai Baht or Korean Won.

 

[FeuerFrei]

LoL at "employees' hard-earned tips" and "woeful minimum wage" (Typical Democrat lamenting perceived "unfairness.")
As if.
Tips used to be performance-based (earned), not anymore, now it's just an expectation.

It's shameful for employers to pay below minimum though, expecting tippers to make up the slack. That's messed up. No patron should be "expected" to tip. I reserve the right to withhold gratuity.

So, do servers get frisked at the end of a shift? Curious.

 

[child of wonder]

I have no problem with tipping but I'm tired of how pervasive and expected it is.

The subpar waitress at the sports bar that brings me my beer and wings? You did absolutely nothing to enhance my experience yet protocol says I'm supposed to add 15% to my bill so you could take my order and bring me my food? A smartphone app could replace you.

A nice restaurant where the waiter/waitress is funny, attentive, makes suggestions, etc.? Yes, you made my dining experience more enjoyable and I want to tip you.